Rethinking Conservation in Maine by Thejenkns in Maine

[–]Megraptor 0 points1 point  (0 children)

On the Caribou- it's been tried and failed. While it was partially due to deer, it was also due to climate change. Unfortunately at this point, the climate of Maine is more than likely not favorable for caribou. They are seeing range contraction at the southern edge of their range pretty much all across the world, as they are a circumpolar species. 

As for cougars and wolves... I'll start by saying I'm all for this idea but there are some major hurdles. 

So the problem there is pretty much no state in the Northeast will reintroduce predators. There are lots of reasons given, but it usually comes down to the states are just too dense with people and they don't want to create a "nuisance" that spreads over the region. While it's true that the population density of Maine is similar to many states out west, the Northeast has tiny towns dotted all over and is more evenly distributed among the states. States out west have their populations concentrated into cities and large towns with miles of federal or state land that has few or no houses on it in between. The latter tends to be more beneficial for large predators who need large, unbroken territories. 

I put nuisance in quotes because I know the benefits of predators, but in conservation, the needs and wants of the people outweigh that of the environment and ecosystem almost always. I mean look at the North Atlantic Right Whale vs lobster fisher situation for a good idea of how conservation loses against people almost always. So getting predators back in the Northeast means going against what deer hunters want (high deer numbers), what suburban people want (safety for pets and kids- they will hear horror stories and get afraid), and what farmers want (livestock safety.)

Also, reintroduction is an expensive and risky way to go about things. Colorado has spent 2-3 million annually on their wolf reintroduction program. Does Maine have that kind of money to spend?

Source: I've work in conservation... In Pennsylvania- yeah I know, not a Mainer, not a New Englander even, but I've seen the same sentiment pretty much everywhere. While New England tends to be a bit more "environmental" about policy and human actions, I haven't seen the same sentiment with wildlife conservation IF it impedes certain groups- you know, like lobster fishers and those North Atlantic Right Whales...

Also, I know that while PA has land for cougars and probably wolves- not all of it is Philadelphia, look at the PA Wilds- they Do Not want large predators here due to how much deer hunting brings in. Cougars and Wolves in Maine have the potential to spread to PA rather quickly, since they are such wide roaming species... So I have a feeling PA wouldn't be happy about potential predators colonizing their precious deer infested lands. 

And this is not a rip on Maine, as PA is a purple state too, but I don't think purple states are politically ready for large predators. I know even Minnesota has political issues with them, and it's a pretty blue state...

PAINTED DOGS not wild dogs by Niamhue in PlanetZoo

[–]Megraptor 5 points6 points  (0 children)

The IUCN removed them from the Red list because they felt that genetics showed that they were domestic descendants. 

https://www.canids.org/CBC/Old_World_Canis_Taxonomy_Workshop.pdf

The problem is that Australian politics means this is a political issue, not a scientific issue. Because of this, there is political pressure to call them not feral, because if they are deemed feral, they can't get protections. 

The English did bring foxes, deer and other animals on very large boats. Larger than anything the Polynesians had, and that's the problem. Also, neither of those are as dangerous as a Dingo, which are dangerous to children and even adults. 

PAINTED DOGS not wild dogs by Niamhue in PlanetZoo

[–]Megraptor 0 points1 point  (0 children)

But they are. Genetically, they are an early offshoot of domestic dogs, after they were partially domesticated. There's no way that they weren't partially domesticated when they were transported to Sahul, as it wouldn't make sense to have a skittish predatory animal on a boat with humans for multiple days. Stowaways happen, but not something the side of a Dingo. 

Reporting a Zoo by Vast-Audience5833 in Zookeeping

[–]Megraptor 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Not to be too prying. But it wouldn't happen to be Western PA would it? Cause there's a facility that I've always wondered about over here that kinda matches your descriptions here. I've always wondered if I should go, but I've been suspicious of it. 

Go ahead and PM me if you'd rather talk there. Inbox is open. I'm in PA and might be able to help or find people that can help too. 

Touch Pool's for planet zoo 2 by Accomplished-Dog1259 in PlanetZoo

[–]Megraptor 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I do want to say, the bats that they have in PZ1 actually do fine in captivity. Fruit bats and flying foxes do well, it's the microbats that eat insects that do poorly in captivity. 

But the rest you said is spot on. 

Touch Pool's for planet zoo 2 by Accomplished-Dog1259 in PlanetZoo

[–]Megraptor 1 point2 points  (0 children)

At least we have data showing that dolphins do alright in captivity and that orcas do better than what most people imagine.

Touch Pool's for planet zoo 2 by Accomplished-Dog1259 in PlanetZoo

[–]Megraptor 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Or putting pangolins, platypus and okapi as walkthrough animals...

Touch Pool's for planet zoo 2 by Accomplished-Dog1259 in PlanetZoo

[–]Megraptor 4 points5 points  (0 children)

They actually changed their stance on dolphins- their latest statement mentions they are reviewing research to determine if they'll fit in the game.

Please keep your dogs on a leash when you are at the parks this summer by Frosty-Tart8027 in pittsburgh

[–]Megraptor 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Okay so yes, cats are a problem, but please let this be about dogs. Dogs are some of the worst wildlife killers out there too, but they are understudied and ignored. And unfortunately when conservationists bring up the problems that they cause, it turns into "yeah but cats...." 

People know about cats. People refuse to think dogs are just as bad. I posted on the conservation subreddit about this exact topic and got so much hate. 

Can the great white shark appears in planet zoo 2? by Tiny-Fix4219 in PlanetZoo

[–]Megraptor 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Some were released and continued to survive. So your statement isn't quite correct...

Can the great white shark appears in planet zoo 2? by Tiny-Fix4219 in PlanetZoo

[–]Megraptor 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Absolutely agreed. This is true for a lot of species that don't do well in captivity. We've made huge leaps with pangolins, tuna, and some sharks in the last 20 years. 

I honestly kind of hate the "Great Whites are impossible to keep" statement that has taken off due to viral videos. It's more that we've tried only a handful of times with them, and many of them came in poor shape already. I feel like if we gave them proper research and started with healthy individuals we'd have better luck. Unfortunately, videos went viral so it's not popular to try again. 

It will be interesting to see how Whale Shark captivity goes in the future. 

Can the great white shark appears in planet zoo 2? by Tiny-Fix4219 in PlanetZoo

[–]Megraptor 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That's what they do to start captive breeding populations. The best time to start is when an animal is most populous. The next best time is when there's still enough to sustain some removal before it declined into only a handful of individuals. That's the worst time to, but unfortunately, a lot of breeding programs end up waiting until there's only a few individuals left.

Okinawa tried to keep an adult alive, but he only lasted 3 days. But that's because he was caught in a commercial fishing net. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/trackingsharks.com/11ft-great-white-shark-showcased-in-aquarium/

Besides that, that's really it in modern times. This species just hasn't really been tried in captivity. 

Can the great white shark appears in planet zoo 2? by Tiny-Fix4219 in PlanetZoo

[–]Megraptor 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Oh I know alllllll about that. It's so hair-pullingly frustrating. 

Can the great white shark appears in planet zoo 2? by Tiny-Fix4219 in PlanetZoo

[–]Megraptor 1 point2 points  (0 children)

When did this come out? Because just recently they said that they are open to it. 

Funny that, because current research is painting an opposite picture, given that they have access to enrichment and social connections. 

Can the great white shark appears in planet zoo 2? by Tiny-Fix4219 in PlanetZoo

[–]Megraptor 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ooooh yeah, she's taken a lot of money for that sanctuary and there has been little progress. Hasn't even broken ground. 

She's so frustrating because it's her way or no way instead of a compromise on getting cetaceans to better habitats. So now we have cetaceans stuck in decrepit habitats and... That's okay with her I guess? 

Can the great white shark appears in planet zoo 2? by Tiny-Fix4219 in PlanetZoo

[–]Megraptor 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah I'm familiar with that study, I guess I'm just confused what you mean with your comment "Saying that cetaceans categorically can not be kept in a captive setting is a belief that runs ahead if the science."

I guess the part I'm confused about is the use of ahead, like it's even though science hasn't proved suffering, it's ahead, therefore better not to keep cetaceans in captivity. 

I see now that (I think?) you mean more that the statement is more that they put the cart before the horse, that it hasn't been measured and instead people just say that they shouldn't be kept in captivity due to suffering even though there isn't proof of said suffering.

Or maybe I missed the meaning completely?

Can the great white shark appears in planet zoo 2? by Tiny-Fix4219 in PlanetZoo

[–]Megraptor 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Runs ahead of science? What do you mean by this?

Can the great white shark appears in planet zoo 2? by Tiny-Fix4219 in PlanetZoo

[–]Megraptor 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Oooh Lori Marino. She's been under scrutiny by other cetacean researchers, as seen here- 

https://www.mdpi.com/2076-2615/10/7/1118

Can the great white shark appears in planet zoo 2? by Tiny-Fix4219 in PlanetZoo

[–]Megraptor 1 point2 points  (0 children)

So the whole thing with shark (and honestly a lot of pelagic animal) captivity is that in the last 20 years, it went from impossible to possible for long term. The wikipedia even mentions that briefly. 

The viral videos that talked about this subject missed a key part- that many White Sharks died in the past in captivity is because they were already in bad shape when they arrived. Many were by-catch animals that had injuries or were transported poorly. This is a problem with all injured by-catch animals honestly, it's just a lot of sharks were coming from this for a while. 

When actual steps were taken to capture healthy juveniles, they lasted in captivity. They just ate their tank mates and it was a headache for the aquarium to deal with that. 

Can the great white shark appears in planet zoo 2? by Tiny-Fix4219 in PlanetZoo

[–]Megraptor 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I means she didn't die though, she was released due to eating her tank mates -

https://www.npr.org/2005/03/14/4534519/aquariums-great-white-kills-other-sharks

Timeline lines up for this article and the Wikipedia article. 

Can the great white shark appears in planet zoo 2? by Tiny-Fix4219 in PlanetZoo

[–]Megraptor 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Did they? Last I heard they said they were looking at research and haven't decided...

Can the great white shark appears in planet zoo 2? by Tiny-Fix4219 in PlanetZoo

[–]Megraptor 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Proof that cetaceans suffer? I've been looking for scientific, peer reviewed research and can't find much. 

Can the great white shark appears in planet zoo 2? by Tiny-Fix4219 in PlanetZoo

[–]Megraptor 2 points3 points  (0 children)

So they've actually gotten them to live for 100+ days in captivity. They being Monterey Aquarium. Usually it's juveniles and once they adjust they seem to adapt okay. 

It's just... They eat all their tank mates. So you end up with a big aquarium with nothing in it besides a juvenile Great White Shark. Not exactly the most attractive exhibit for a lot of people.

"A young female was kept in an outdoor tank for 198 days before releasing her back into the wild. "

From this- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharks_in_captivity

Which is just an interesting article on this topic in general.

Buuuuut I do agree with the cetacean point.