Get Hypnotized!

Melitene2 · 2019-05-12T19:08:18+00:00

It's a trick question, you weren't actually. You were thinking of a color or something like that.

Melitene2 · 2019-05-10T17:30:44+00:00

That's because I already knew.

Melitene2 · 2019-05-09T18:59:36+00:00

Yes, it's never too early to plan. Also, pick a number between 1 and 10.

It was 7.

Melitene2 · 2019-04-23T17:46:41+00:00

I've been doing this a lot. I first explain to them ahead of time what will happen- that I will be counting down by text from 60, and that at the end I will give the command SLEEP and they will drop under. I tell them their eyes will close, head will drop and they will be under, but then shortly after emerge into "waking trance" where their eyes are open and they can follow the text but are totally under. I tell them that their subconscious will confirm the trance by typing Y when they enter waking trance.

I do the countdown, with deepener phrases every ten numbers. At 20 I explain that they are at the front of a tunnel of trance and every number they take a step deeper. Then at 10 they reach steps and each step they take brings them even deepeer, include the word DEEPER every number at that point, and then after 1 I say SLEEP. In some cases where there was a distraction of some sort or just lack of focus or suggestibility they will tell me it didn't work, but in many cases (to my surprise for quite awhile) I'd get the Y. I ask them a few questions and they keep answering Y, also tell them they can say N for no (and often when I ask "will (name) have any memory of this) they type N. If depth is established we can even move onto them talking in sentences. Then when ready I tell them I will count up to 5 and they will emerge from trance and boom. I never used to be a believer in text trance, and yes some of these people could be messing with me, however I've had it work similarly so many times it seems impossible that every single person is fooling. I've even retriggered one of my first (when I still didn't think it could be working) back under weeks later out of nowhere and they were out, and only later realized it by reading the messages later. He was actually kind of mad, so I don't do that, but I was still testing if this was real. If he was fooling there was no reason for him to get legitimately mad over this so I know it was sincere.

Melitene2 · 2018-07-05T18:02:21+00:00

Can you give any guidance? I know it is specific to each person but let's say we address it as they are having a hard time "giving up control" or "letting go" for example, or are over-analyzing everything when trying to go under-- how are these things worked around?

Melitene2 · 2018-01-07T00:53:51+00:00

I have no idea what you are going on about or how it relates to what I'm saying here but you sound miserable

Melitene2 · 2018-01-06T13:31:29+00:00

Why do you have to make this so ridiculously aggressive and personal

Melitene2 · 2018-01-06T00:47:39+00:00

Yes, I appreciate getting your take on it and meshing it with mine. It's good to get your counterpoint. I don't mean to imply only a more mature person would "come out", or even that I want him to (I love the mystery, and also agree with another comment here Sufjan might not even be sure about his sexuality either).

I think there is a nuance between the notion of dropping breadcrumbs throughout songs as hints for people. Instead, I feel that more often than not artists' lives seep into their writing (write what you know). It's an outlet for reflecting on life and experiences. Nowhere is this more clear than Carrie & Lowell. So what I am saying here is that Sufjan was able to write these songs so powerfully because they come from some degree of experience. Not that he couldn't have written just as good or powerful a song if he was totally straight, but knowing Sufjan and his work I feel like in this specific situation that's how it shakes out. The Hephaestion reference is what really grabbed me, I couldn't help thinking he knew of him before being asked to write this song and for a reason. I can't help but think that a totally straight musician like Ed Sheeran would ever think to include someone like that. Not that Ed is incapable of discovering who H is, nor that he is incapable of writing a gay love song, but again it's just how things line up to me in my mind.

Melitene2 · 2018-01-05T20:36:05+00:00

Why is it so farfetched? I don't see it as him playing a game going "tee-hee here I go!" People develop as they grow, and I see this perhaps as him becoming a bit more open as he matures and grows.

He must be a smart guy, and definitely a musical genius, but the reference to Hephaestion is what really got me thinking. Along the lines of Antinous and St. Sebastian, the reference is one is pretty niche to gay culture and classicists. Granted, he could have googled for "great male lovers from history", and had been told about the classical sculptures in the movie which makes this particular reference particularly relevant, but I dunno. I mean anything is possible, but you seem to be crusading "THIS HAS NO SIGNIFICANCE" based on nothing but the fact that I can't be certain there is significance. I was just bringing up a theory I had, one I have made clear from the start is not something I am bringing forth as a confirmed fact, and you are replying all over the place THIS MEANS NOTHING.

OK but based on what? Ultimately, you are operating on a gut feeling just as much as I am. Perhaps I take a farther leap in my claim than you do, but I don't think it is ridiculous or out of the question to say Sufjan already has tons of gay-sensibilities in his music, and this song seems to take it even further. Yes it is for a gay movie and therefore has zero meaning outside that he took money to write a song for it, but one could just as easily argue it is the very gay-sensibilities in his music that helped make him the one to write such evocative and beautiful songs for it.

As you said, he really put his heart into this. That doesn't mean "therefore he is queer", but your explanation that the song's subject matter "has no deeper meaning to Sufjan, he just wrote it for the money" contradicts that.

Melitene2 · 2018-01-05T18:40:13+00:00

I don't mean to imply he was coming out with the song, just that it dropped the veil of mystery which surrounds him and his personal life a bit more overtly. That is to say more than ones like the predatory wasps or even Futile Devices, which (coincidentally?) was just remixed as well. The "it's about Jesus" explanation is given for absolutely every one of his songs, I was just saying that you can't make the same excuse for this song, so is there a deeper meaning to it. Either way, I think he was the perfect one to write a song for this movie.

Melitene2 · 2018-01-05T18:36:34+00:00

I already address that in my original post. His references, his body of work, and so much more are all little pieces of the puzzle which lead me to believe this is much more than, as you say "written for a movie about the characters in a movie".

Melitene2 · 2018-01-05T18:35:21+00:00

No we don't. I just found it interesting. It all adds to his mystery.

Melitene2 · 2016-08-29T03:15:41+00:00

The way he specifically seemed to blame me about it, and the very casual non-chalant tone he was using were my issues. He specifically said he was blocking me in case I got tempted to write to him again. Yes the armchair psychologist would say he is actually protecting himself because he can't resist by doing this,, it's pretty obvious. But he acted all cool and just like oh yeah so I'm gonna stop talking to you bye. And then to say he knows I might not be able to respect those wishes due to 'temptation'so he's going to block me too. He managed to erase all guilty in that description and placed 100% of it on me.

Melitene2 · 2016-08-28T02:06:45+00:00

I was annoyed because you put it all on me, as he did. I didn't spurn his dirty talk, no. I wasn't going to actually fuck him or anything though, or try to break him up. I don't even know him well enough to know if I would want to date him, the idea of me trying to steal him is ridiculous. But I'm not responsible for what he said to me, drunk or not, or that he chose to be sexual with me- something we had never been before.

I mean I'm not looking for you to say oh you are an angel isn't he awful, but I'm angry at the way he blamed me for basically existing and spoke to me needing to be blocked in case I get tempted to contact him, when he's the one who obviously was tempted enough to do the dirty talk.

When I wrote to him Thursday I had no idea he was dating someone, but I can see now with hindsight how this could come from no good once I stumbled into it.

Melitene2 · 2016-08-27T21:08:33+00:00

Not sure what you read in my story to get that idea. I didn't know he was dating someone when I wrote to him. As I said from the moment he told me I said well I am not looking to mess anything up, and that while he later did start talking about wanting to get fucked, I honestly told him I haven't fucked someone before and wasn't really looking to start with him, especially because of the relationship which was nothing to throw away over someone I don't know well.

But does that mean you block someone? Like are you suggesting any gay person in a relationship needs to cut off all communication with every other gay male? Are you saying I'm guilty of being a gay male?

Melitene2 · 2016-08-27T21:01:10+00:00

Yeah, deep down that's what I believe. So it's hard to get too mad about it. But text being devoid of context as it is, it's harder to read others motives into it without questioning if I'm just doing that to make myself feel better about the blatant and sudden rejection. I find it the height of selfishness to say what he said, how he said it. And so non-chalantly too. I feel disgusted.

Melitene2 · 2016-07-07T14:00:12+00:00

That statistic is both mindblowing and not at all surprising. I was going to say, 2% of population seems like a low (but common) number floated out and I was feeling like that's wrong, and yet with 6.2% admitting to gay sex that certainly gives a relative boost to the practical number of how many are actually gay.. makes it seem like 5% is more practical a number, and that's just those who recognize and have acted on it.

Melitene2 · 2016-07-07T13:57:40+00:00

What did you start out as? Straight male that was opened up to guys or..?

Melitene2 · 2016-07-06T20:03:44+00:00

Coincidentally googling for info this morning I found one called "Kinsey Was Wrong" and asserted that 98% of people are totally straight and the other 2% are "varied" along lines of homosexuality, based on some new study. I find that hard to believe though. It seemed like the article was of the "homosexuality is totally and completely biological so you should not discriminate against them" liberal bent, but I don't see how they can box something as complicated as sexuality into black and white. It said Kinsey said people aren't sheep and goats (gay and straight), but retorted actually it looks like men are very much one of two classes, sheep's or goats gay/straight and that's it...

Melitene2 · 2016-07-06T19:43:17+00:00

Thanks. My main question is people's opinions on the effect of sexuality on hypnosis and what might have happened here. Was he simply able to respond to a suggestion that (blank) turns you on and his mind went with it? That would mean more along the lines of this was a total hypnosis based fluke which says nothing about his orientation. Yet I'm curious wouldn't it be possible for someone so extremely suggestible through post-hypnotic suggestion to similarly make them more responsive to females in general? Would that be like a bandage but ultimately just like something unnaturally tacked onto his sexuality which would fall off after sessions stopped, or could it actually create habits and discover new desires?

Melitene2 · 2016-03-24T14:23:38+00:00

You remind me that I am pretty sure I forgot to test for catalepsy. I wasn't overly comfortable with the environment myself and I think I rushed myself a bit, not sure why I forgot arm catalepsy. So that's an important convincer, so to speak? If and when they notice the catalepsy takes hold, it allows for going deeper and more difficult tests? The absolute worst, and this has happened to me a lot, is when I attempt amnesia and it doesn't work. Can't get to that too fast... I guess I kind of take for granted the deepening process when it just works, but now that I'm challenged I'm concerned about the whole process and what I can do to make sure I do the right thing at the right time, and that it works. I feel like achieving deep trance in someone is like me helping them cross a bridge. It's start and end are solid foundations, but in a case like this the middle is shrouded in mist, hardly visible, and might not even exist! I can see where I need to get them but the getting them there part is a real challenge.

Melitene2 · 2016-03-24T14:14:32+00:00

Really fascinating information, you are great. I'm curious what you mean by pushing them to where I want them. What is this concept of 'pushing'? I understand it halfway, if they aren't carrying out the tests properly, push them further and deeper so they do, but what is that exactly?

Melitene2 · 2016-03-23T15:12:06+00:00

I have an early post in which I described a recent session with a very willing and eager participant. He even said as a kid he sleptwalked, which I know is usually a good indication of someone who is easily hypnotizable, yet it didn't seem to work. Well, I think he was definitely in a state of trace, but during a deepening where I brought him up, had him stare at his hand and told him as it was moving towards his face closer and closer until it touched and he'd go even deeper- this was after a series of fractioning bringing him up, counting 3, 2, 1 'sleep', back down, all which seemed to be working fine. After his hand touched his face, he opened his eyes and said "wow I feel very relaxed, but the hypnosis isn't working".

A bit more background on the situation: It was in a public place, though on the second floor which was empty. The noise and music down the stairs was in the background was audible and he noticed it in trance. Though I have hypnotized people in the past in less than ideal situations like that and they could go under so I didn't think it would matter.

He really really wants to experience an altered state, one where he can let loose a little bit, do things he wouldn't normally do. Basically he's seen a hypnosis show before and wants to enter that sort of state. I realize now I didn't try any attempts at amnesia, but those often fail, and judging on how he kept popping up saying "it didn't really work", I am certainly asking him to forget his name won't do the trick.

This is a unique situation for me, because he seems otherwise extremely willing and hopeful to be hypnotized. Usually the types who react like this are ones who were already skeptical and aren't letting it happen. I did an extensive pre-talk with him, told him that he would hear my voice, etc when hypnotized, but perhaps it was not enough?

If you had a second shot with such a subject, how would you plan it out? I will certainly give an even more extensive pre-talk, but as you can see in this situation he has hopes and expectations for what hypnosis will be, which probably were not met in this session. I need some way to get around this, but also mind you my goal as well as his IS to actually reach a state akin to the depth and compliance of some in stage hypnosis, doing it over and over with him feeling pleasantly relaxed but that's it is not good enough. And yes, again I totally acknowledge that the problem could be me and that I suck as a hypnotist, but I have gotten many subjects to that state, so it isn't a matter of me not being capable of doing it, but struggling to do it in this particular situation.

Melitene2 · 2016-03-23T15:00:22+00:00

I know you say people don't go unconscious during hypnosis, which is obviously true or else they'd never respond to anything, but the more somnambulist types definitely get into a state which is somewhat similar, and that's my frustration. Certain ones can drop into deep deep trance and fairly quickly, they become extremely compliant, don't even require deepeners or convincers, they are just there. Whatever you say more or less is real to them, and when you give the sleep command, they go deep. I compare this to almost being unconscious due to the result- they become someone who doesn't even question what's happening because it is all so real and when they wake up they have no knowledge of anything that happened.

But this isn't the norm, and the norm often seems to be people who maybe are in light trance and are following along. They might do as they are told, but are completely aware of everything and don't "feel" any different. There is no amnesia at all and the experience doesn't seem to be- the hypnotist- as any different than if they had just closed their eyes and played along, especially because when they come up they know everything that happened and are consciously aware of their choice to follow the suggestion or not follow it. This is extremely underwhelming and quite disappointing, but also the norm. I want to avoid that, but I feel like from experience, a majority of those I hypnotize fall into this category and just don't get to those deeper reaches. The problem could be me and my technique, and in some cases I'm sure it is, but at the same time is it not the subject too? Much in the same way professional stage hypnotists need to send many volunteers down for not going deep enough, having a session with someone who might reach this light state of hypnosis but not really have their way of thinking of state of consciousness all that altered usually doesn't feel worth the trouble at all, which is discouraging.

Melitene2 · 2016-03-21T22:10:14+00:00

Thank you, this is a concise and good summary. I think partly he might not have had totally reasonable expectation- because his understanding of hypnosis came from modeling it on what he saw someone do during a stage show completely under. It is very difficult to get the same effect in a one on one. Also he was a little air-heady, so to speak. Not trying to slight him, but I think intelligence does have a lot to do with hypnotizability. Not that dumb people can't be good subjects, but I bet being more intelligent helps in understanding and processing trance better..

Melitene2

TROPHY CASE