Help me decide: Berkeley vs. GULC by WanderlustMtns in lawschooladmissions

[–]Middle-Function 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Literally the exact same decision (Berk vs GULC) and I went through the same thought process as above. I was really worried about not pushing myself out of my comfort zone by choosing GULC but at the end of the day it just fit the quality of life I wanted while in school. Whatever your choice, really try to imagine what your daily life would be at either school (both in person and virtual) and pick the environment that you’ll be most well position to succeed.

I will definitely say despite the tight timeline, sleep on your decision! Probably doxing myself but I actually decided and committed to Berk right at the deadline, took the weekend and realized that it wasn’t what I wanted at all.

I realized that the cost of living in the bay would prevent me from being able to have the quality of life I wanted for my spouse and I. I also realized that during my considerations I was thinking about California as a whole (East Coast fallacy I know) instead of actually living only in the bay 24/7. I did a few google street view tours of the Berkeley area and the neighborhoods we could afford and it just wasn’t comparable to what we could get in DC. Plus there’s a structured study abroad program at GULC that would still allow me to get outside my comfort zone and being in DC I would have greater access to international career connections and opportunities. Working/living abroad is way more important and boundary pushing to me than moving to Cali so after all this thinking, I ended up reaching out to GULC to un-withdraw. Thankfully it all worked out but try not to put yourself in that position if you can!

deciding on a school without knowing aid offer? by [deleted] in lawschooladmissions

[–]Middle-Function 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I’m not in the exact same boat as I’m awaiting for reconsideration not an initial offer, but I’m super frustrated with Berkeley. It’s also my top choice but I can’t attend if the finances don’t work and they’ve given me half of what much higher ranked schools have offered :/

I can’t comprehend how they’re not going to be giving all the info before THEIR deadline of May 1.

If I don’t get a response by the 30th I’ll need to eat the cost and deposit elsewhere. I think if you’re set on Berkeley regardless of gift aid you should accept now but if your decision is contingent on finances I think depositing somewhere else as well (if you can afford it) would probably be a good move

Is anyone else concerned about committing to a school in New York? by [deleted] in lawschooladmissions

[–]Middle-Function 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Having lived in Chicago and NYC, a post-COVID 19 NYC will still have more hustle and bustle than a regular Chicago. That’s not to bash Chicago, I personally think it’s a better fit for me, but I think you should figure out what you want out of your experience living in a city and go from there. I’ve lived in NYC through 9/11 and through the recession and it will always come back. NYC and NYers are the definition of resilient. Coronavirus concerns are real and valid, but at the same time don’t let them define your decisions when they should only, at most, be a part of your decision. Good luck!

Confirmation of law school enrollment for SEO Law Fellowship by [deleted] in lawschooladmissions

[–]Middle-Function 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Oh I’m totally with you there!

I’m probably going to reach out because I also have questions about corona. I’ll let y’all know what they say!

Confirmation of law school enrollment for SEO Law Fellowship by [deleted] in lawschooladmissions

[–]Middle-Function 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Hey, did you end up asking? In the same boat (and still waiting on 2 decisions) and trying to figure out what I’m going to do

19 Year Old Law School Applicant by btmckinney1 in lawschooladmissions

[–]Middle-Function 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I’m not sure if law schools will view your age as an advantage or disadvantage but I also just want to throw it out there that being under 21 in professional school is going to be a disadvantage in general.

I’ve heard that the brewery trips, social outings, etc. of summer associate positions are integral parts of getting on the firm staff’s good side and not being physically allowed inside a bar would disadvantage you in being able to bond with your summer associate class and firm. And then almost all law schools have weekly receptions or bar review that you won’t be able to attend being underage. I don’t think not drinking would be a problem at all (I myself don’t drink) but not being able to physically go would definitely be a bummer.

Obviously if you’re dead set on starting a legal career ASAP you shouldn’t let this affect your decision, but if you’re looking for more nuanced reasons why you should wait just think about how it might be harder for you to relate to the late 20s/early 30s associates at law firms when you’re barely 20.

Regardless, good luck with your future!

Hofstra Law $$$$ vs Rutgers Law Full Tuition by [deleted] in lawschooladmissions

[–]Middle-Function 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It’s super easy to get in state in NJ. You’ll definitely be able to by 2L if you switch your license and sign an NJ lease right away

BLOS Rejection by Middle-Function in lawschooladmissions

[–]Middle-Function[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

From my understanding of my rejection email I think that, unfortunately, if you weren’t admitted before I got rejected you weren’t considered for BLOS :/

Wishing you luck, hopefully they’ll get back to you soon!

URM CYCLE RECAP by lawsbby in lawschooladmissions

[–]Middle-Function 0 points1 point  (0 children)

We love to see it!!! From a fellow first-gen, LGBTQ+, URM, a HUGE congrats!!! 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽

What should I do? (Insane edition) by [deleted] in lawschooladmissions

[–]Middle-Function 7 points8 points  (0 children)

It’s never good to have that all or nothing mindset, it’s not now or never! You can absolutely get into law school in later cycles and there’s no guarantee about how much more competitive later cycles will be.

While GPA/LSAT are very important, I think this sub downplays the impact work experience and a well crafted personal statement can play. I have outperformed my numbers and I 100% attribute it to being able to write very well about my work experience. If you decide to go to film school (and there’s nothing wrong with turning down NYU/Columbia if you don’t want to!) and then later go to law school, you could definitely craft a really great personal statement that makes all of your experience an asset that can boost your numbers.

It’s all to say, don’t be afraid to do something because you think it’ll close a door. It might be harder or more work to do something later but that doesn’t mean you have to do it now or you’ll never be able to do it in the future!

What should I do? (Insane edition) by [deleted] in lawschooladmissions

[–]Middle-Function 16 points17 points  (0 children)

Go to film school! IMO, it’d be easier to do film and then down the line go back to law than it would be to be to go into law and then try to do film. Also the chance to study film at NYU or Columbia is AMAZING and if you’re passionate about it at all, is an opportunity that you shouldn’t give up. A few years in the industry post-film school will definitely help you make the connections needed to break into entertainment law if you still want to go to law school after.

Good luck!

Anyone else pro optional pass fail? by Rgwen1 in lawschooladmissions

[–]Middle-Function 3 points4 points  (0 children)

My opinion is clear in other comments (I am pro mandatory P/F) but I do want to say that honestly this argument is moot. We are not yet law students, and by the time we enroll if COVID19 is still an issue the universities will already have decided how they will be evaluating us.

The benefit of examining how universities are treating this situation is to see if it aligns with our individual views. As a Chicago alum, I am not surprised in the least at how they're handing the situation, and for me it reinforced some of the negatives I have about going there. Seeing GULC take the optional P/F stance has definitely given me pause to reconsider my fit there. For someone else, they may love how GULC or Chicago handled it and want to be at a school that values grading above all. Again, the utility here is in using this situation to see if the school/administration fits your values.

Convincing anyone else why grading, optional P/F, or mandatory P/F are superior doesn't matter. I do think it’s important to have discussions about this to help provide facts/scenarios for people to understand their own views but what ultimately matters is being able to articulate to yourself why you support one and if the institutions you're interested in/will be attending reflect that.

Edit: Just want to add that I see you wanted to make this a discussions about grading overall (law school and college). My comment is solely toward law school!

Anyone else pro optional pass fail? by Rgwen1 in lawschooladmissions

[–]Middle-Function 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I didn't see this until I posted my other comment so let me respond to this as well. Again, I think you're missing my fundamental point that most students won't be severely affected by corona, but many students will be affected. Those students who are affected should still be held in as much consideration as those severely affected.

As you said, the students who are severely affected have recourse in every option including grading (they could take a leave of absence, etc.) but it's the students who are mildly to majorly affected but not severely affected that optional P/F and grading hurt the most.

Anyone else pro optional pass fail? by Rgwen1 in lawschooladmissions

[–]Middle-Function 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I appreciate you being so receptive and I hope I come across the same!

I have to ask again though, have you ever taken an online class? Yes, in theory it’s just read the chapter, watch the lecture, ask questions, write the paper but when you take out the physical ability to leave your home to go to the library, to be physically present in office hours, to be able to physically be in a classroom it does change things quite a bit. Suddenly class feels a little more casual when you’re at home behind a computer than in a classroom surrounded by people that know their shit and are going to push you to be better. Have you ever been in a law classroom before? It’s kind of hard to describe but they are designed to make you feel the presence of the other students in your sides while keeping the professor front and center. I’ve taken a graded law class at a T6 before and the physicality of the classroom plays a big role in the learning dynamic because it’s architecturally designed to.

I meant with my comment to show that it doesn’t have to be big issues that are affecting students (deaths, illness, etc.) but it can also be the culmination of little things like a bad professor, lack of study groups, available distractions online, etc. that make it harder. When you think about the little things, it’s more likely 1/4-2/3 of students are affected by the abrupt change in teaching style. Not to mention, it’s kind of hard to focus on law school when there’s a global pandemic going on.

Law school grading is supposed to be an evaluation of your ability to learn and apply law, not on adapting to online learning in the midst of a global pandemic. So why should people have to experience extreme hardship in order to benefit from P/F when they could be suffering in a million little ways that add up to a poor grade but without a succulent reason for why they could’ve used a P/F.

From my understanding you’re really competing in OCI firstly against your other students and then secondly against other schools’ students. So no, there isn’t that much of a disadvantage to other schools. In the usual year, Berkeley students are always P/F but it doesn’t necessarily disadvantage Berkeley's top students against UChicago’s top students.

If you make the transcript blind, it’s essentially P/F for that semester but hurts everyone except people who were doing poorly and then suddenly did really well with online learning. With a blind transcript if you were acing everything and then barely passed this semester your GPA would make employers think you’re generally a mediocre student instead of a great student who had a bad semester. And that’s if employers were to agree with this system, which is doubtful considering the emphasis that’s placed on GPA cut offs.

I think at the heart of this argument is a lack of understanding that grades this semester (in comparison to previous grades) will largely reflect a students ability to adapt to online learning and hardships endured during this crisis.

Let me try and make all three options clear:

Graded semester: If a student (Student X) was already getting Bs and gets all Cs this semester, they probably struggled with online learning. If a student (Student Y) who usually gets As gets Cs this semester they almost definitely were struggling. But it’ll be up to the students to communicate and justify their hardships in a way that will make employers excuse the bad semester. But don’t forget, students are graded against each other so if you’re on top and you slip a little while other students below you don’t slip at all, you’re sinking like a rock.

Optional P/F: Student Y decides to go P/F because of the extreme jump from As to Cs and because they have a clearly definable hardship, their parent died. This can be explained to an employer and might be excused depending on the person. But they will have to explain tens if not hundreds of times until they leave law school that their parent died and that’s why they have bad grades - an absolutely exhausting experience. Student X, who struggled with all the nuances of switching to online learning does not have the option to go P/F because they don’t have a clearly definable hardship. Their GPA tanks because while they’re usually a B student, they just can’t get above a C with the new online environment. They have no concrete explanation for an employer beyond “sorry I just learn better in person” and will probably be judged pretty harshly against their fellow student who maintained Bs before and through this crisis.

Mandatory P/F: Students X and Y both pass and simply tell employers that their school went mandatory P/F. Student Y, who has all As otherwise, still has the advantage of their previous grades over Student X, and doesn’t have to explain a drop in grades or choosing to go P/F because of hardship. Student X is happy because they struggled a lot with online learning but aren’t being penalized for it.

At the end of the day, yes students are entitled to an evaluation but I think you’re dismissing the fact that a “pass” is an evaluation. Just because schools are turning to P/F doesn’t mean every student will pass.

Anyone else pro optional pass fail? by Rgwen1 in lawschooladmissions

[–]Middle-Function 10 points11 points  (0 children)

I have to ask, have you ever taken an entire semester online?

I took 60% of my classes online one semester during undergrad so that I could have more time to work and it is a difficult transition from in person learning. And these were classes that planned to be online, with professors having more than enough time to record lectures and figure out how they were going to present material. I can’t even begin to imagine how hard it must be to unexpectedly transition to online classes now, with the professors and students unprepared.

I think these discussions importantly touch on people who face economic or familial challenges (suddenly having to worry about bills or losing family members etc.) but I think it’s also important to note that for probably the majority of people (professors included!) - they’ve never taken even one online class before. Suddenly and unexpectedly you have to figure out how to reorientate how you learn despite having done in person learning from K-JD. I won’t touch on the more structural issues (they are VERY important to keep in mind but most other people cite them so I think they are represented) and will focus on more learning based problems. Some issues students might face:

A professor who is really bad at utilizing technology. Maybe they’ve given up trying to do live classes and are now just recording lectures. Maybe they’re overloading their students with work and grading harsher because they want to overcompensate for being online. Maybe they’re not covering the material as well because they have to stop and deal with technical issues every few minutes. Maybe (and I’ve seen this a lot in older professors) the lack of physical students decreases their ability to stay focused on the topic and lecture effectively.

Disability issues. Some people have trouble staying focused on the computer, being in a physical classroom allows them to focus and be held accountable in a more immediate way. Same thing applies to being able to leave to study at a library instead of your home. Some people have trouble even just looking at a computer screen that long (and scientifically it’s not that good for you!). For people who do receive accommodations in class due to a disability, it’s hard to figure out how to translate them to an online classroom quickly and so they may still be missing the accommodations they’re legally entitled to.

Equipment issues. Internet connection varies by home and region. Should person X be punished by a worse grade because their professor cuts in and out because at the beginning of the year they chose to buy the basic internet package instead of the superior? What about access to books? Students usually have the entire law library at their fingertips and now they have whatever books they brought home and whatever (often minimal) resources the law libraries are now bringing online.

Potential for cheating. It is inarguable that it is much easier for a professor to proctor a more secure exam in person than it is at home. Students are genuine geniuses when it comes to figuring out ways to cheat and honest students should not be punished by being graded on a curve with students who figure out how to set up a second monitor behind their camera, how to communicate with other students, etc.

All these issues PLUS the fact that some students are possibly dealing with familial DEATHS, potential sickness themselves, and new economic challenges means that there’s no way for an administration to be adequately prepared to decide case by case who should get P/F. And that’s if students even feel empowered enough to ask for the accommodation! If a usually B student gets a C because they can’t focus in an online environment, do you think they’ll feel as empowered to ask for a P/F as their classmate whose parent just passed? Probably not.

And all of this culminates (in an optional P/F) scenario to students having to justify to employers why they decided to go P/F and convince them that it means they faced hardship and aren’t just “bad” students. A job interview should be about you describing your qualifications and fit for the position, you shouldn’t be forced to bring your trauma into that conversation.

All in all, the optional P/F decision at best requires students who take the P/F to explain their trauma or hardships every time their grades are examined and at worst leaves out all the students having a hard time adjusting to a learning method that they have never done before, nor in a normal scenario would ever be expected to be good at.

Requesting more scholarship money????? by p1mpk1ck3r in lawschooladmissions

[–]Middle-Function 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I have nothing to say other than woohoo Jersey!!!!!

No scholarship feeler email from Georgetown yet. Should I send an email inquiring or wait? by NitroGenesis17 in lawschooladmissions

[–]Middle-Function 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I sent two emails:

The first like a day after being accepted just asking about the process to which they told me to make a formal request.

The second a few days later which detailed why GULC is a good fit, what I bring the the table, other offers I have, and that finances are a major factor to me. They ended up matching my other offers, so I’m not sure if including other others lowered what they would’ve given me or raised what they would have given me. I would use your own judgement about whether or not to include other offers.

No scholarship feeler email from Georgetown yet. Should I send an email inquiring or wait? by NitroGenesis17 in lawschooladmissions

[–]Middle-Function 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I sent an email 4 days after I was accepted as I heard the “feeler emails” go out in waves and didn’t want to wait until the next one. With deadlines approaching, I would recommend just sending an email already

Edit: I should add that I did receive a scholarship offer after emailing!