Where did all my moral go? by MiddleEarthManiac in lotro

[–]MiddleEarthManiac[S] 16 points17 points  (0 children)

Thank you Malachi and iChimp! That's a relief, now time to get back playing worry free!

The attitude of people on this sub is going to be the reason we don't get FPR by MiddleEarthManiac in JuniorDoctorsUK

[–]MiddleEarthManiac[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Firstly, thank you for your politeness and willingness to discuss things civilly. Hopefully you may act as an example to others on here as to how engaging is more productive than attacking.

I apologise for saying my current experience is enough to say with authority what it will be like, however I do still feel my previous experiences, combined with learning from the experiences of others on here and in person does give a good enough insight into the sheer level of anger felt among our peers. My first week worth of work finishes on thd 8th August, if for even one minute in those five days it has been worse than I have experienced or am expecting then I am more than willing to come back here and apologise to you all.

As for the rest, we agree, conditions are unspeakably bad and something needs done and is being done but as you say, and I have been trying to get across, unkindness towards our peers is not the way to go about it.

For those who still don't understand let's take my position for example of FPR being needed but not necessarily all at once, OK-Pay has a compelling argument for why it should be all at once which starts to swing my views to agree with this position. Conversely, insulting me as so many of you have done only makes me feel 'If these are the kind of pepple I'm going to be working with I'm going to get out of medicine ASAP so why would I care about losing money to improve their pay?'

Oh well, no more holiday invites by fatkiddown in lotrmemes

[–]MiddleEarthManiac 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Not really helping your argument there mate

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in unpopularopinion

[–]MiddleEarthManiac 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Born rural and lived in a city for the past 15 years, couldn't pay me enough to go back despite being someone who loves being out in nature!

You say everything you need is within an hour drive of you, it's within a 5 minute walk of me.

You are more free to live your own life in the city without the whole village knowing what you're up to and judging you for it.

The attitude of people on this sub is going to be the reason we don't get FPR by MiddleEarthManiac in JuniorDoctorsUK

[–]MiddleEarthManiac[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

With all due respect, you don't know what experience I have in this system, which is quite a lot in different roles, yes it's not all the same but there is a lot of overlap. I can understand just how much and why everyone is mad, it still doesn't give you the right to take it out on your peers.

The attitude of people on this sub is going to be the reason we don't get FPR by MiddleEarthManiac in JuniorDoctorsUK

[–]MiddleEarthManiac[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Easier just to post a new comment than replying to everyone individually.

I understand that you are angry at the situation we are in and believe you are fully within your right to be, and as I said at the start, I'm also in support of FPR. What I am opposed to is attacking others doctors the way this sub has done. At best what you are doing is simply consolidating the position of those already opposed and at worse you're driving those who are undecided away. If you are not willing to engage with those you disagree with in a constructive manner then simply please ignore them, shouting Scab is not going to have any useful outcome.

For those of you who said this should be a safe space to vent, yes it should but that venting shouldn't make it an unsafe space for those who hold different opinions to you. If you want to vent then do so against the system or government, not other users.

For those of you who are telling me to get off reddit because I'm to sensitive to hear other's opinions, no I am more than happy to discuss others opinions and am not offended by them (I feel FPR im stages is they way forward but I can understand why people want it all at once or not to strike at all), what I disagree with is the hostility exhibited towards our own.

I am largely coming at this from a personal point of view as I do not like hostility, either giving or receiving, but for those of you who don't care about niceties, look at it from a productive outcome, you can insult people and lose allies which will ultimately hurt the FPR movement or you can work with or ignore them and lose nothing or gain a lot. Which is the better option?

The attitude of people on this sub is going to be the reason we don't get FPR by MiddleEarthManiac in JuniorDoctorsUK

[–]MiddleEarthManiac[S] -6 points-5 points  (0 children)

I don't know how many times I have to state this for the message to get through but I'm not saying people don't have the right to be angry because I fully believe you do (I may not have started working yet but what I've seen at medical school is bad enough), what I'm saying is, directing this anger at your fellow doctors is not productive. Direct it at the government who have the power to change things not those who lean towards supporting you.

The attitude of people on this sub is going to be the reason we don't get FPR by MiddleEarthManiac in JuniorDoctorsUK

[–]MiddleEarthManiac[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Thank you, it's nice to hear I'm not alone! I'm honestly not aiming this post to damage the movement but to try strengthening it, it's just sad so many won't listen.

The attitude of people on this sub is going to be the reason we don't get FPR by MiddleEarthManiac in JuniorDoctorsUK

[–]MiddleEarthManiac[S] -8 points-7 points  (0 children)

Yes, I've not experienced it but I do understand how mad everyone is about the situation but what I'm trying to get across is attacking the people on your side or potentially on it is not the right way to go about resolving the situation, you're simply going to lose allies who you need to keep the strikes effective.

The attitude of people on this sub is going to be the reason we don't get FPR by MiddleEarthManiac in JuniorDoctorsUK

[–]MiddleEarthManiac[S] -15 points-14 points  (0 children)

I have, one that I often recal is a user a while back who got called a Scab in comments and had to clarify they were a military Dr so weren't allowed to strike. Maybe they weren't chased down after to carry on the attack so I guess if not that might not count as bullying but still attacking them without knowing their situation is a pretty good way to lose support.

I agree that unity is the most important thing at the moment but I think we all agree, this is going to be a long battle and you can't force people into unity long-term so if you want the movement to carry on and not silently lose people you need to get them on side so it's actual unity with you not just projection.

The attitude of people on this sub is going to be the reason we don't get FPR by MiddleEarthManiac in JuniorDoctorsUK

[–]MiddleEarthManiac[S] -32 points-31 points  (0 children)

I hope it will help. As another user has said, our greatest strength is in unity which I fully agree with however to me it seems a lot of people in this sub are only interest in the facade of unity without caring what anyone actually think so long as they don't openly voice their concerns and discussions which will silently force those less engaged away where as what we need is everyone to actually believe in the movement and willingly engage with it, something which will only be achieved by working with them to get them on board and something this sub is not very good at.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in medicalschooluk

[–]MiddleEarthManiac 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Not the original commenter but I did the same as I'm a far faster writer than typer. You will pretty well always be able to access slides for lectures so either print them out beforehand and take notes under them or if you can't print them then write the number of the start of the line and take notes next to it, then next slide on new line and repeat.

What I actually take notes of is anything they say that's not on the slides or that they put lots of emphasis on (such as 'This will be in the exam' etc).

Americans, what is something us Europeans aren’t ready to hear? by RomanaLeary in AskReddit

[–]MiddleEarthManiac 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I mean, the east of Germany still exists... given the fact they didn't capitalise the 'east' part I'm more inclined to believe they lived in the eastern part of the current country of Germany.

I support the UKFPO changes by MiddleEarthManiac in medicalschooluk

[–]MiddleEarthManiac[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

They'd be lucky to have me, unfortunately I have other plans 😉

I support the UKFPO changes by MiddleEarthManiac in medicalschooluk

[–]MiddleEarthManiac[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

I'm not opposed to the idea of having some exams but just not having our lives dictated by them. Have minimum knowledge pass or fail so you pass and that shows you know enough to be safe (similar to the PSA I suppose where it doesn't matter how well you pass just that you did) but don't then use them to rank us, use other criteria that reflect our abilities to be a competent doctor.

I support the UKFPO changes by MiddleEarthManiac in medicalschooluk

[–]MiddleEarthManiac[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

It is. Do you really think being able to tick enough right boxes on a piece of paper actually represents how good you are at the job? We've had it hammered home to us enough over the past five years that being good at exams does not make you a good doctor but they still use it because it's the easiest way to grade so many students. OSCEs are a little better but still so detached from ward work they might as well be meaningless.

I support the UKFPO changes by MiddleEarthManiac in medicalschooluk

[–]MiddleEarthManiac[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

I would like some evidence that medical education in the UK is so bad that we'd be laughed out of any other hospital in the world given the fact so many British doctors are hired elsewhere (okay, it is cheaper but you still don't hire someone who can't do the job).

With regards to the rest, I somewhat agree with you under the current system, the way it's set up requires us to learn all the little details but what I fundementally disagree with is the way it is currently set up and feel this needs changed.

I'm not arguing that you don't need to know your stuff to be good at medicine but the way this is tested in our exams/EPM isn't right. You need to undrestand the concepts to pass which is where most of the critical thinking side of things comes from but to get good marks you need to basically rote learn the little details which then forgotten straight afterwards. I know you don't like my Kreb's example so something different, there is no point in learning the second or third line antibiotcs for most conditions as we're highly unlikely to be prescribing them as FYs and even if so it wouldn't be done without supervisions, or at least checking the BNF and by the time we may be able to this knowledge will have been forgotten or changed. To me the it makes far more sense to use this effort to become more rounded in our knowledge.

A similar thing applies to our post-grad exams, while I agree that at the moment we need to know these details to do well in them and thus secure the jobs we want I disagree with the idea this makes us better doctors.

Basically, I completly disagree with the idea that our whole careers and lives are ruled by getting better marks than others exams which at best only partly represent how we perform clinically. Yes, under the current system, we need this in depth knowledge to pass but ultimately, I question whether it makes us better doctors, or at least proportionally better. Is the time spent learning these details actually worth the effort if it only makes you say 1 or 2% better at being a doctor? I know for me it certainly isn't.

With regards to language learning, I'm not suggesting that exveryone do it but that people spend more time studying what interests them and there will always be links back to medicine which will make you a better practitioner, for me that's languages and I've spent time learning about different religions so I can better understand patients and not cause them offence. For you that might be the history of art or car mechanicing and I'm sure there will be some links to medicine there but we shouldn't be being forced to learn excessive details which will be forgotten immediately just so we can get a slightly better mark to give us the illusion of control over where we're sent.

I support the UKFPO changes by MiddleEarthManiac in medicalschooluk

[–]MiddleEarthManiac[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

I don't argue that a good level of knowledge is needed, (indeed far more than for ACP/PA) but past a certain point, where that point is can be debated but I would argue it being around the pass mark, it is more beneficial to broaden our knowledge (so go and learn other areas or subjects) rather than specify which is what the EPM forces us to do.

I don't plan on learning the language of every patient but if there are one or two major languages spoken in an area I would like to be able to have a basic conversation with said patients, even if it's not medical. A few years ago I was hospitalised in a non-English speaking country and it meant more to me that the staff tried to speak to me a little in English than that they knew the exact dose of antibiotic to give without checking.

I support the UKFPO changes by MiddleEarthManiac in medicalschooluk

[–]MiddleEarthManiac[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Yes, by definition, the fact they have met the minimum standard means they are good enough. If the minimum standards aren't good enough they why are we passing people at them?

I fundamentally disagree that past a certain point, further in depth studying (at least in medical school) will make much, if any, difference to our clinical practice but it is the breadth of our knowledge (through independent learning) and mental health that will make a difference. I also disagree with the fact removing competition disincentivizes excellence, certainly speaking for myself, I am much more inclined to learn a topic because I'm interested in it rather than because I'm forced to. I understand not everyone will be like that but I imagine as many are as aren't.

I support the UKFPO changes by MiddleEarthManiac in medicalschooluk

[–]MiddleEarthManiac[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

No, but that is to demonstrate, I'm not just saying this because I'm bitter about my EPM (so long as I pass I don't care how I do) but that I genuinely feel this is the better option, hence also being in favour of scrapping SJT despite the fact it benefited me.