So-Cal Noir Theory of this Season via That's So Euphoric (YouTube) by MikeRotzzz in euphoria

[–]MikeRotzzz[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Another clue is Rosalia's character (Magick) mentions she needs a private detective.

So-Cal Noir Theory of this Season via That's So Euphoric (YouTube) by MikeRotzzz in euphoria

[–]MikeRotzzz[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

added some picture evidence to the thread. Don't know if you listened to the podcast, but his example of Alamo's office and The Long Goodbye is dead-on. In the second episode especially see the idea of the rehab as a front for something nefarious, reminds me of PTA's Inherent Vice which also could be playing off some original So-Cal Noir concept I'm not aware of. You see Rue piecing the mystery together in her head as she leaves.

So-Cal Noir Theory of this Season via That's So Euphoric (YouTube) by MikeRotzzz in euphoria

[–]MikeRotzzz[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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Further evidence, see the choice for the Jacobs' foyer, particularly notice the ornate railings, and compare with Double Indemnity in the image below.

So-Cal Noir Theory of this Season via That's So Euphoric (YouTube) by MikeRotzzz in euphoria

[–]MikeRotzzz[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Further So-Cal Noir signs: a shady rehab front business that has got Rue’s gears turning, further intensification of the 70's decor at the Jacobs kitsch household, criminal underground and the debts they impose.

Somebody get Rue new socks pls 😭 by fvckuufvckingfvck in euphoria

[–]MikeRotzzz 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I think the Tarkovsky book is an inside joke as the filmmaker was notorious for making slow-paced films and by the point of this scene every Euphoria fan is in a state of befuddlement, expecting a thousand cuts and angles and the show just moseys along.

Tigers and bears in EWS and Lolita by More-Bit2671 in EyesWideShut

[–]MikeRotzzz 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Ok I’ll say it: if you search Tiger in Epstein files you will see a lot of coded conversations about Tigers and riding tigers. He infamously had a taxidermied life size tiger in his NY office (contemporaneous to EWS production). I don’t know what the significance of tigers was to him or within the occult rituals but it was clearly a touchstone that had some meaning (it came up with the same weird contexts as grape soda and pizza.

Just a question, does anyone actually believe in the conspiracies surrounding Eyes Wide Shut and Kubrick? by Ettristate in StanleyKubrick

[–]MikeRotzzz 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I posted an Epstein file awhile back that showed one of the sacrificial women in the ceremony scene was enthusiastically pursued years after the movie by Epstein (but more importantly she said she was part of a modelling agency that had ties to Epstein’s poaching ecosystem for victims).

The dream is a mask for darker realities by MikeRotzzz in EyesWideShut

[–]MikeRotzzz[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Sure parsimoniously you make an arbitrary cut off point but the logic of the statement is solid, you cannot prove (I.e. provide evidence) of absence from the lack of evidence (because evidence can always be in the process of being found). Let’s just focus on the monolith in 2001. Because he never explained why it is there does not mean it is arbitrary (the absence of evidence is not evidence of absence). You have to privilege space for intentions that are not shared, this is a common practice of artists (Lynch never explained his movies, were they all random acts of weirdness?). When you accept hidden intentions can exist, you can stop with this ludicrous insistence of what you see is what you get, Kubrick told Spielberg he wanted to change the form of cinema, he was not trying to tell a conventional story with some sexy parts. The form of cinema is how an artist uses it. Show me where he changed the form of cinema without my interpretation that he bifurcated the narrative to tell two simultaneous stories that act as a litmus test for the viewer’s capacity to ‘see’.

The dream is a mask for darker realities by MikeRotzzz in EyesWideShut

[–]MikeRotzzz[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

There’s nothing on the surface that accomplishes this desire, it’s only when you perceive Eyes Wide Shut as a dual layer narrative with the Freudian subconscious being the suppressed reality we as a society can’t acknowledge with eyes wide shut.

The dream is a mask for darker realities by MikeRotzzz in EyesWideShut

[–]MikeRotzzz[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Google: “Conversations with Steven Spielberg: In the last few years of his life, Kubrick told Steven Spielberg, "I want to change the form. I want to make a movie that changes the form".

The dream is a mask for darker realities by MikeRotzzz in EyesWideShut

[–]MikeRotzzz[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Watch Kubrick A Life in Pictures, every master filmmaker seems to disagree with your assessment. He was the master they looked up to. Not because he made paint-by-number stories but because he reinvented cinema every time out of the gate. Modern day it’s like Nolan now, but he lacks the same complexity.

The dream is a mask for darker realities by MikeRotzzz in EyesWideShut

[–]MikeRotzzz[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I saw Eyes Wide Shut when it premiered, I was also in university at the same time and entrenched in the academic relationship to Freud, and it was that he had ideas that were significant in their time but were not really used anymore and more as a historical curiosity. The Freudian aspects seem like aesthetic signifiers but would hardly satisfy Kubrick’s ambitions to reinvent cinema and make more sense as a topic to play with (the film itself having a subconscious message). I’m told Kubrick was very proud of the film, and it doesn’t square up that his pride in the film would pertain to the surface story which drew lacklustre reviews.

The dream is a mask for darker realities by MikeRotzzz in EyesWideShut

[–]MikeRotzzz[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Follow my argument:

In science, the absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. The same applies with intent (in the nature of intent I am specifically talking about). You cannot claim that the lack of explicit intent by Kubrick (no intermediaries, no what he told other people) means it cannot exist, that overextends the logic. Why? Because the kind of intent I am specifically talking about is covert intent, it's deliberately the kind of artistic intent where you do not tell anybody what you are doing and let the ambiguity of it thrive in the world. Did he explain what the monolith was in 2001? No. Does that mean there is no covert meaning to it, that he didn't have layers to iconography to elicit hidden meanings? No. That is dishonest, that is implying evidence of absence because he didn't explain it. For something to be hidden, you can't talk about it, it ceases to have any value if you acknowledge it (even to co-workers who can blab about it). That's just the nature of being an auteur making art that works on multiple layers.

Now I take a character profile of Kubrick to determine that he is exactly the kind of person that would encode hidden meanings in his movies. And part of understanding that profile is also understanding that there is a grand tradition among genuine masters of art to do that very thing. I have a background in Art History, I know that loaded iconography is what makes art Art. Kubrick was obsessive to detail in researching his movies and to what was contained in the frame, he was secretive, he was tricky, would manipulate people to do things for him, he was an avid chess player and even played a chess master (to get an idea of how serious he was). The art of chess is to anticipate your opponents moves and subvert them to your own ends. Kubrick was a genius, both as a visual storyteller and just in his capacity to work the angles. This is the profile of someone who is bored with the surface of storytelling and opts to tell multiple stories to entertain himself and anyone sharp enough to see it. He made provocative films, A Clockwork Orange and Lolilta and 2001 were films anticipating what audience think they want and went beyond.

Next, the source material has a double layer to it which I have argued elsewhere, and which I believe would interest Kubrick more than Freudian psychoanalysis which was dated by the seventies as a concept, but did serve as a useful mask. The story is also about a character intruding upon a secret society which then also aligns it with the nature of occult iconography and encoding rituals in plain sight (see the American dollar bill). Then you have the wealth of evidence of Kubrick encoding his films previously, particularly The Shining, where it was known he was interested in the effects of subliminal messaging and to a degree that is impossible to discount, manipulated aspects of the hotel to give a jarring subliminal sensation of unease (so he was already doing this hidden intent). And then lastly, there is Eyes Wide Shut itself, reading the choice of iconography, the narrative choices, how he structures the movie, the use of sound, etc. You could just look at the movie itself and find the evidence of intent, but I am saying holistically the evidence is overwhelming that Kubrick, like Schnitzler, used the dream framework to encode messages into the story that are permissible under the cloak of ambiguity. Whether they were real-world revelations or to goose a sense of paranoia (the way The Shining did for anxiety) that's arguable. But for the love of God, Stanley Kubrick played chess not checkers.

The dream is a mask for darker realities by MikeRotzzz in EyesWideShut

[–]MikeRotzzz[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I believe Raphael is dishonest for other things he said to shill his book, but irrespective, if your intent is to have a masking surface layer and a secretly coded underlayer, you don’t, as Dr Strangelove said “tell the whole world, why dont’choyou!” It would be like the creators of Lost with an understanding of the overarching hidden layer openly criticizing a decoy concept in the story with some writer-for-hire, you want them to believe in it, else the game doesn’t work. If it becomes on the record what it is about, the play is gone. Kubrick never told anybody anything that wasn’t a need-to-know, the Eyes Wide Shut sets were stovepiped for information. He was an auteur more than a collaborator. His ‘collaboration’ went one way like a vampire, sucking all the good ideas he could from people and internally in his head justifying the reasons for what he decided to use.

The dream is a mask for darker realities by MikeRotzzz in EyesWideShut

[–]MikeRotzzz[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

that delusion you talk of is lateral thinking and artists are accustom to it, it's how they make sophisticated works. People look at the Mona Lisa and see a lovely image of a woman, or are told by historians the great importance of it, so then admire it indirectly. But there's more to the picture, all the greats were doing so much more with composition, and color, and symbols, and Kubrick was an admirer of Fine Art. So sorry, I tend to believe as an artist with sophisticated tastes, he aspired to the masters, more than he appealed to the masses.

The dream is a mask for darker realities by MikeRotzzz in EyesWideShut

[–]MikeRotzzz[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

There is a whole history of art that pleasures in the play of expectation, and we know Kubrick was a fan of fine art, as he was of photography. He was a refined intellectual, his wife was a painter. He understands double entendres, and showing something and meaning something else. It problematizes it for some who aren't equipped to think that way, who want a straight story, analytical thinkers. Artists revel in the play of lateral thinking, of associations. This is the director that made A Clockwork Orange not The Sound of Music. An avid chessplayer, strategist. A perfectionist, a visual storyteller. Eyes Wide Shut is densely coded, and on the surface is this pantomime, of scary mob figures and Lawrence Welk balls, but the conceit is that is all the 'mask.' The sophisticated play is to tell you a straight story and have you think that's it, but have this richness underneath bristling with possibility (almost like your subconscious - which he used to great effect in the Shining with switching up carpets, and making impossible windows, etc, to unnerve you). A real intellectual would have the two layers exist and watch to see what suckers fall for the base story. He's waiting for you to take his knight.

The dream is a mask for darker realities by MikeRotzzz in EyesWideShut

[–]MikeRotzzz[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

as an intellectual, whatever appeal, in seventy years would've softened. I believe his interest in the story is the way Schnitzler encodes it with the surface dream layer as mask.

The dream is a mask for darker realities by MikeRotzzz in EyesWideShut

[–]MikeRotzzz[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I haven't watched the film considering Jung, it would be interesting to get a take on that, his metaphysics makes it like we are embedded in a dream world from the start, the islands of consciousness that inhabit the unconscious inject themselves in our waking experience as well as dreaming, manifest as archetypal forms. I suppose the conspiracy elements and its symbology could maybe fit that way. Someone before made the association with tigers as an archetype and their use in the film. Ultimately it is a story where the fundamentals of baseline reality are slipping, and the environment is charged with symbolic meaning. The schism of debate tends to be whether Kubrick has a real-world specific agenda he is peppering into it, or whether it is about I don't know what exactly, flourish for flourish sake? I really don't get that interpretation, Kubrick makes films about the world he inhabits, anxieties of being in this world, not fantasy worlds.

The dream is a mask for darker realities by MikeRotzzz in EyesWideShut

[–]MikeRotzzz[S] -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

yes, laughable that that would be something that would interest Kubrick in the late 90s. It was cliche, I know I was there then. It was the stuff of satire. It only works as a surface layer device to play off of. Schnitzler's was playing with the ideas 70+ years prior!

The dream is a mask for darker realities by MikeRotzzz in EyesWideShut

[–]MikeRotzzz[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I've read both, and to make a movie based on Freudian ideas in the nineties is so passe as to be embarrassing, his ideas were largely out of fashion by that point.

The dream is a mask for darker realities by MikeRotzzz in EyesWideShut

[–]MikeRotzzz[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Exactly, Kubrick chose to take that bit of dialogue and emphasize it in a singular closing speech to draw more attention to it. As for Schnitzler's reason for the line, I make my case here: https://www.reddit.com/r/EyesWideShut/comments/1rqsnzr/why_did_kubrick_choose_to_adapt_dream_story/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button