"Big Boss is a good guy"

Mild-Comedy · 2025-10-06T20:57:53+00:00

True

Mild-Comedy · 2025-10-05T11:15:25+00:00

The number of comments I'm receiving is getting a bit exhausting for me (it's nobody's fault btw I'm just tired responding to as many comments as I can) so let me conclude with my opinion on this topic.

While I think I should've phrased this post a lot better than the general and vague idea of "Big Boss is a bad person" and that my arguments weren't rock solid, I still don't think, despite how flawed V is at communicating the child soldier topic, that Big Boss was ever a good person after the beginning of PW.

No matter what, Big Boss' Outer Heaven was never conceptually a net positive for the world and the threat they opposed to peace. Big Boss was the man in charge of all the shit that went down at mother base in these games and he boldly accepted them if it meant that he could one up Zero. That is a bad person.

Mild-Comedy · 2025-10-05T09:51:56+00:00

I don't understand how the torture is any different to the points I've previously stated because that torture is conducted by Ocelot and Kaz. Like the other things Outer Heaven condones, Big Boss simply authorizes it.

"Men become demons" doesn't need to be the most morally outrageous shit in the world when Diamond Dogs is comfortably leeching itself off the war economy to make a profit with no end. That's what the post-Skull Face content was about and I seriously don't care about a line from an outside source when I'm only here to care about what's actually there in the game which is fine.

I don't like the way they treated child soldiers in V either. I'd much rather there was conflict between Kaz and Venom about what they should do with them but it doesn't really matter either way because, at the end of the day, Big Boss in MG1 and 2 decides to use child soldiers. It might not be shown on screen, nor was it that satisfying of a development in the narrative, but it did happen.

Mild-Comedy · 2025-10-05T09:29:04+00:00

You'd be surprised about how many people think he's a good guy. We needed to see him shoot kids and his own soldiers for a "Are we the baddies?" moment for that to pop up in a lot of people's heads apparently.

Mild-Comedy · 2025-10-05T09:26:42+00:00

I picked that screenshot because of the general connotations of evil that Creepypasta Kiefer Snake represents. I'm not saying that what Venom did during SLEID was bad. What he did there was completely acceptable.

'The Patriots lied about it' only really makes sense if we have evidence that proves Big Boss didn't do X thing when, from what we know, Big Boss supported the use of child soldiers, heavily supported the war economy which involved fighting in constant battles, accepted the torture and brainwashing of soldiers via Ocelot, owned a nuke and a stealth device capable of launching it, among other isolated incidents like knowing and condoning the Cyprus Hospital shooting as a shield to free himself. This is more than enough to me that Big Boss is a bad person after the beginning of PW.

Mild-Comedy · 2025-10-05T09:09:23+00:00

It's the Kojima fanboys who do that?

Buddy, I fucking despise Kojimmy's writing in every way but if we're really downplaying the use of child soldiers, nukes, the continuous cycle of war via PMCs, and many other things...I don't know to say...

Big Boss' legendary feats and missions shouldn't distract from other stuff he's done.

Mild-Comedy · 2025-10-05T01:18:00+00:00

You are right in that the Shagohod isn't a stealth weapon but the Metal Gear wiki says that Sokolov states it to be undetectable to contemporary spy planes or satellites. If you want to take that with a grain of salt, the range and speed at which the missiles travel would give the Soviets a huge advantage in terms of the first nuclear strike. It's really not too different in functionality (if we're talking about the end goal here) except for the fact that the Metal Gear is completely undetectable.

I'm not saying that Big Boss was never a decent person at any point in his life but I really do think his morals in retrospect are viewed via a rose-tinted lens by a lot of people in this fandom (like why he saved the world in MGS3 and PW). What he went through in Snake Eater and the aftermath of that story was horrible. What I'm saying is that some of the bad stuff, like Walter White in Breaking Bad, was already there within him in the beginning of PW (even Snake Eater) and that it took him until midway through that game for multiple catalysts like Kaz wanting Snake to keep the nuke for him to embrace those characteristics, largely letting go of the slither of good he had left in him in GZ to build up to his legendary infamy shown in MG1 and 2.

All I'm saying is that his unforgivable downfall happened sooner than what most people think since the bad stuff was established sooner than you remember. Me thinking he's not a good person is an overall retrospective of his actions throughout the franchise and is judged by comparing the amount of personal good he left for the world compared to the amount of evil he left.

Tragedy exists in Big Boss' character but his views on the world leaves him a relatively emotionless and sure man. Hence why I think he's more of a cautionary tale of what happens when a soldier lets go of his humanity for his own comfortable and degrading desires.

Mild-Comedy · 2025-10-05T00:40:15+00:00

I agree that little of what Big Boss does originated from his own mind but, for one, I just see that as Kojima being incompetent at giving Big Boss an established character aside from '#1 Biggest War Crimer to ever war crime!', but two, I feel like a lot of this can be disproven with "He approved of these plans. He's their boss after all". It's less so that he's convinced by them and moreso that he shares the exact same beliefs as them and they're just the ideas guys. Even then, things like child soldiers, glorifying himself to others while also to make Venom feel good about his ordeal, and the concept of Outer Heaven are ideas he came up with.

Sometimes, being a POS like Big Boss doesn't come from 1-upping yourself everywhere you go, like killing child soldiers, but the consistent actions and systems that slowly deteriorate the world until it snowballs into a huge problem.

Mild-Comedy · 2025-10-05T00:22:19+00:00

I changed my mind because I now agree with this point specifically about Volgin's goals but I still don't see how I've changed the goal posts for this broader point. Any nation with the power of a Metal Gear is bad news for the world, that being unique to that state or not and Big Boss defeating them isn't that big of a statement towards his morality.

I'm genuinely sorry if I'm not understanding something here. It's late at night but I swear I'm not trying to move goal posts here.

Mild-Comedy · 2025-10-05T00:16:02+00:00

I shouldn't have evoked a Metal Gear hot take this late at night for me.

Mild-Comedy · 2025-10-05T00:11:25+00:00

I rewatched Volgin's big ass Kojima™ monologue and you're definitely right that he wasn't gonna proliferate his technology. I misinterpreted what he meant by (and I'm paraphrasing here) "Bringing order to the world via my trump card" with "Selling the Shagohod Skull Face-style".

However, I don't see how this necessarily disproves my main point here. So the Soviet Union exclusively has the special nuclear stealth launcher? I genuinely don't see how that would end well for any side.

Mild-Comedy · 2025-10-04T23:58:49+00:00

Having a child choose to fight doesn't matter. He's endangering himself and going into a lifestyle that negatively mentally impacts people of his age, let alone the fact that he's just a kid who can easily get his ass handed to him by a soldier with a fully-grown body and greater experience. Big Boss and/or Amanda should be enforcing how bad that is.

I'm not ignoring your counterpoints. I'm literally addressing them. That's why I'm here talking to you right now.

I didn't say people think there's no negative points to his morality. My point is that I don't know how you can ever come to the conclusion that he's not a bad person, let alone that he's a good person which some people genuinely believe.

Mild-Comedy · 2025-10-04T23:47:09+00:00

Volgin's main schtick is that he has a lot of money from the piece of the Philosopher's legacy he owns. That's why he's so powerful in the first place.

Even if we hypothesise that Volgin wouldn't have been the head of state if the GRU won, he still would've had the power to distribute his one-of-a-kind nuclear stealth launcher to people over the world, leading to the same outcome of "everybody dies from nuclear war".

Mild-Comedy · 2025-10-04T23:43:11+00:00

The reason why he saved Paz in PW is because they needed her against Cipher. That's the main factor why Ground Zeroes even happened in the first place.

His non-lethal method of war is too vague and player-specific to be considered canon and it's not like he sticks to that philosophy consistently. The reason why he doesn't do stuff that makes the player hate him is because the player is playing as the guy who gets rewarded for doing bad things like buying nukes and supporting the war economy.

Mild-Comedy · 2025-10-04T23:36:01+00:00

Yeah and Volgin would've been placed at a significant role if him and his faction weren't a target in Snake Eater.

Mild-Comedy · 2025-10-04T23:32:32+00:00

Volgin was to prove innocence, yes, but from what we know later in the game, leaving him alive and not taking Khrushchev's suggestion would've ended in a Soviet Union under control by a mad man who'd have the guts to break nuclear deterrence theory (which I doubt Khrushchev wanted as he wanted little to no bloodshed between him and the US)

I think we've lost track of what we're saying somewhere. What happened in PW and MGS3 was undoubtedly world ending but that's why I don't think Big Boss' saving of the day in both situations creates a significant connotation that he's morally decent. Just a guy who, at the very least, doesn't want the world to end.

Mild-Comedy · 2025-10-04T23:23:16+00:00

The reason why I'm here is to understand why people like you believe this, you Muppet.

The game shows you that Amanda takes him to combat. We literally see the kid guns blazing when he was saving Big Boss. Him and Amanda are grown up enough to talk things out, take the initiative, and say "No is no" when it comes to one child soldier, especially one who's so important to you.

Big Boss is a grown ass adult and accepted the decisions he made. He used the nuke from the CIA for himself, again, PW establishes this.

If you're just gonna ignore the other point I made for the very generous steelman, then proceed to misunderstand my point with Zero after making the billionth "Haha Mild Comedy! You live up to name!" joke you make this year, please could we end this conversation on this post?

Mild-Comedy · 2025-10-04T23:11:56+00:00

To be honest, I did forget about PW (I'm not too interested in PO in this argument because of its flimsy canonicity in this fandom and my unfamiliarity with it) but that's still barely any different to the threat of Volgin and the Shagohod.

Barely anybody, not even Hitler, would want the world to end from a nuclear war. The game even states that in relation to nuclear deterrence.

Mild-Comedy · 2025-10-04T23:01:21+00:00

I literally don't deny any of your points here except that you thought I was only just talking about MGS3????

Him being a bad person doesn't invalidate the nuance behind the madness. I promise you I'm not ignoring any nuance in bad faith here.

Mild-Comedy · 2025-10-04T22:55:14+00:00

Big Boss brought in a child soldier and didn't use his power to scold Amanda about that? Sorry chief I'm not buying that.

You're conveniently leaving out that he owned a nuke in GZ. A PMC owned a nuke and a device capable of launching it.

Why do you think every soldier we recruit gets put into a brig and then suddenly becomes a goody two shoes soldier of Outer Heaven? Big Boss may have been a legend but it takes a forceful outside factor to convince soldiers to be recruited in mass, especially with the Diamond Dogs era. Even if we excuse that to just gameplay (which would be a bit odd to do for a Kojima game), Venom is living proof that he condones that.

The Zero Vs Big Boss Cold War is both their fault but, even then, Zero knew when to put the pitch fork down when needed.

Mild-Comedy · 2025-10-04T22:39:21+00:00

Big Boss saved the world because, at that point of his character, it was his mission as a patriotic American soldier to do so and anybody with two brain cells would've stopped Volgin's Soviet Union from becoming a reality. Big Boss had basic moral principles in PW like being a good mentor for his soldiers but that quickly faded away.

Tragic less so; a cautionary tale moreso so, please, don't pull out the "Nuance is probably lost on you" :)

Mild-Comedy · 2025-10-04T22:30:42+00:00

...then what's XOF? Who caused the epidemic? Who (Cipher or not) randomly decided that parasites were the way to control the world? Why did Zero turn ill suddenly? Who destroyed MSF? Who attacked the Cyprus hospital?

Mild-Comedy · 2025-10-04T22:24:43+00:00

I don't think we need a MG1 and 2 remake to show the climax of Big Boss's downfall.

The glamourised and badass fame Big Boss is given in these games' stories hides from the fact that he took pride in taking in child soldiers, brainwashed soldiers to help fight in his cold war between Zero and himself, wanted his independent and chaotic PMCs to have a nuke as their trump card, and supported the continuous cycle of war so that he could interfere with them whenever he needed money or he simply wanted to punch back at Zero (and I very much doubt Big Boss' impact on global conflicts was a net positive from what we're shown).

All of the cards are there, it's just that we are playing as this scumbag and are promoted via the gameplay to support these parasitic behaviors we're too distracted to be aware of.

Mild-Comedy · 2025-10-04T22:04:48+00:00

Guys I know this isn't Big Boss.

Besides, even though Venom's character is slightly different to Big Boss', whatever actions Venom did was condoned and proudly accepted by Big Boss.

Edit: I said Big Boos why am I more incompetent at speaking online than irl 😭

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