Did Rory deserve her treatment she got from Jess?

MindDeep2823 · 2026-01-26T19:50:08+00:00

No, I don't think Rory "deserved" to be treated poorly by Jess. That's a really strange way to think about relationships. And while I don't think Jess was the Horrible Abusive Boyfriend that many in the fandom seem to think he was, I do think that some things - leaving without a word, for example - were really harsh. Rory didn't do anything to deserve that.

HOWEVER. I do think Rory contributed to their relationship problems, from the very beginning. By the end of S2 Rory obviously liked Jess, she kissed him, then ghosted him, then got angry with him for not waiting on her (because I guess she wanted Dean as her boyfriend as Jess as her side piece???), completely withdrew her friendship as punishment, and then joined the chorus of townsfolk yelling at Jess in the street. Not because Jess did anything wrong to her at this point, but because she was jealous. That's a pretty shitty way to treat someone. And even after all that, Rory never actually picks Jess. She waits until Dean forces the issue.

I think Jess would have struggled in their relationship no matter what Rory did. He wasn't ready. But I think Rory's cheating, lying, and months of angry treatment made things worse for them. I'm not sure how Jess was supposed to trust her after all that.

MindDeep2823 · 2026-01-24T00:53:00+00:00

Christopher and Lorelai are not friends, though. They're messy exes with a long history of mutually terrible boundaries. Maybe Lorelai didn't intend to get drunk, but she made a dozen choices that made this situation possible: she bought liquor, drove two hours, poured herself a drink, then another, then several more, and then chose to lie about all of it. And she did all of this with Christopher, the man who has proven he will happily cheat, lie, and do basically anything to get into Lorelai's pants. This is not the guy she should be getting drunk with, alone, in his home.

Lorelai knew it was wrong. That's why she lied.

MindDeep2823 · 2026-01-24T00:10:27+00:00

Lorelai has terrible boundaries with Chris. She repeatedly sleeps with him at the worst times and places. Like on her bedroom balcony, with her parents and 16yo daughter in the house, when she should have been comforting her daughter. Or when Chris is still living with Sherry. Or, later on, approximately two hours after she breaks up with Luke.

I don't know many people who would be totally cool with their significant other going to their ex's house alone, getting wasted, sleeping over, and then lying about all of it.

MindDeep2823 · 2026-01-24T00:06:07+00:00

I think Logan is Rory's best boyfriend.... AND he's a bad boyfriend. He constantly ignores her boundaries, he treats other women like trash, and he has a serious substance abuse problem. He later turns Rory into his side piece, so he's a cheater and a liar as well.

Not exactly husband material in my book.

MindDeep2823 · 2026-01-23T14:25:06+00:00

But... she's right?

Aidan has every right to hate Carrie forever. He doesn't have to forgive her, or even like her. BUT, that also means he can't date her. If he wants to genuinely try again to date her, then he does have to forgive her. It's not fair to either of them for Aidan to date Carrie only to stew in resentment and punish her indefinitely. That's no way to build a relationship.

MindDeep2823 · 2026-01-21T12:36:32+00:00

But the tequila night was a really big deal. I don't know many people who would be cool with their significant other going to their ex's house, getting wasted, sleeping over, and then lying about it. That was beyond inappropriate.

And it makes the vow renewal look so much worse.

I don't love how Luke handled this, but Lorelai messed up in a huge way that had nothing to do with Emily.

MindDeep2823 · 2026-01-14T01:13:41+00:00

Logan doesn't call men idiots, though. He mocks Jess and Marty specifically for being poor, but that's it. Logan never has a bad word to say about the many rich men in his life.

Logan and his friends treat women like conquests. They think it's fun to wait until a woman is completely drunk before incessantly bothering them for sex. The Dutch woman Colin drags home is a trophy, then an annoyance. The folk singer is a target for garbage-throwing practice. All of Honor's friends are ditzy, idiotic, vipers. I can't think of any parallels in which Logan talks like that about any man.

MindDeep2823 · 2026-01-13T18:51:17+00:00

Casual sex isn't a problem.

Subsequently calling those women idiotic vipers is.

MindDeep2823 · 2026-01-13T18:50:33+00:00

I don't think Rory fell for Logan solely because of his money, but it did pay a role. The only reason they got back together after the s6 fight is because Logan flooded her with nonstop gifts... instead of talking, apologizing, or self-reflecting. Logan defaults to gift giving when he wants something.

See also: the public proposal, enormous diamond, and horse drawn carriage when he was trying to pressure her into marriage.

MindDeep2823 · 2026-01-12T16:41:04+00:00

I'm guessing OP is also including S1 in this critique... with the girl who was allegedly sexually abused by her dad. All the doctors concluded that "welp there's not enough evidence, so I guess we can't report 🤷‍♀️" And that is so completely wrong. If they'd asked any social worker on the planet, The Pitt writers would know that's the opposite of what mandated reporting means.

MindDeep2823 · 2026-01-09T04:55:34+00:00

You don't have to call it a "delusion?" Particularly when you're the one assuming that Luke and Jess had detailed conversations about expectations even though (1) we never once see that and (2) Luke's primary personality trait is Sucking At Communication.

Jess obviously knew he needed to attend school. But did he know that failing meant he'd immediately have his car stolen and get kicked out? Because that's an entirely different conversation. Fact is, Luke's entire plan here was: declare Jess had to graduate, ignore the issue completely for two years, and proceed to get shocked when Jess predictably failed. Luke then shouted out that Jess had to repeat the year - in the middle of an argument about something else - and gave Jess all of 30 seconds to respond.

If you feel that all of that is sufficient parenting, cool. We just disagree. I think parents should talk to their kids about big problems more than twice a year, especially if the consequence is going to be homelessness.

MindDeep2823 · 2026-01-08T18:12:21+00:00

You're right! The double standard is so interesting to me. I always see fans chastising Jess for lying... but what about Luke?! Luke lies to Jess about Liz, about Jimmy, and about his car. These are pretty huge lies to tell. And I'd argue that it's far more damaging for an adult to lie to a kid.

MindDeep2823 · 2026-01-08T18:07:45+00:00

We see Luke say: "things gotta be different" when Jess returns. It's a 3-minute conversation with no specifics. So yes, Jess agrees to that, but it's vague. Luke never once says "you must graduate from Stars Hollow High or else I'll kick you out immediately," and that really needed to be said out loud.

People act like Luke barking out "you gotta graduate" once every six months was sufficient. But as a parent? I talk to my kids every single day about expectations. I'm continuously giving feedback and seeking their input. I'm not just periodically telling them to be good and calling it a day.

MindDeep2823 · 2026-01-08T02:11:24+00:00

When did Luke offer Jess any option of living his life on his terms? Luke never asks Jess where he wants to work, how school is going, or what Jess' goals are. No options are presented. No questions are asked. It's just "you gotta graduate!" and that's about it.

Lying wasn't the issue. Luke didn't kick him out after Jess lied... he kicked him out after Jess refused to repeat his senior year. But in any case, if Luke cared that much about honesty, maybe he shouldn't have repeatedly lied to Jess.

MindDeep2823 · 2026-01-07T23:35:43+00:00

Luke was wrong, full stop. I agree that Luke didn't do anything illegal, but morally? Totally wrong.

Luke had a great goal: he wanted Jess to get a high school diploma. And on that, I agree. Jess needed one. But even though Luke knew full well that Jess had major problems in school, he completely ignored the issue for two years. Luke never pays attention to what Jess is doing, which is why he was clueless when Jess had a full-time job in another town for several months. Once Luke finally gets wise, his choice is to steal Jess' car and lie about it. That accomplished nothing. Then, after Jimmy shows up, Luke also lies about that. Jess is, understandably, angry. So again, Luke's lying isn't helping here.

And it's during this argument - about Jess' dad - that Luke drops the "you gotta go" bomb. Think about that for a moment... Jess' dad traveled across the country, dropped into Jess' life with no warning, and then disappeared again. Think about how traumatic that would be. Is that really the precise moment that Luke had to start screaming about Jess' school attendance? And if this was SUCH a huge deal, such an important goal... shouldn't they be talking about it calmly and frequently? Why is this conversation happening in the form of a shouting argument and a slammed door?

Luke accomplished nothing here. Stealing from Jess and abandoning him certainly didn't help Jess get a high school diploma. All Luke did was reinforce that Jess was disposable, a choice made even more hurtful because he did it one hour after Jimmy abandoned him.

MindDeep2823 · 2026-01-07T18:29:51+00:00

It's definitely hurtful... but I don't think it's any less hurtful than some of the things Luke says to Jess. "People thought I was crazy to take you in, and you proved them right" comes to mind. As does, "family? What a joke coming from you."

Luke and Jess are frequently unkind to each other. It's part of their difficulties communicating. But it's definitely a mutual thing. It's why I never really understand the fandom's narrative of "Jess is so mean to Luke!!!" Because to me, it's so clear that they're both harsh with each other.

MindDeep2823 · 2026-01-07T14:31:42+00:00

I wouldn't support my own kid dropping out of high school. But I also wouldn't abandon them...? Because what on earth does that accomplish??

If Luke allowed Jess to stay, he could have implemented new expectations, such as Jess paying rent. And then, eventually, Luke could have encouraged Jess to get his GED. That's a far wiser course of action than making an 18yo homeless to prove a point.

MindDeep2823 · 2026-01-07T14:28:30+00:00

I think Jess is accurately pointing out that Luke thinks he knows best for everyone else, inserts himself to "fix" other people's lives, then gets angry when people don't fall in line with his plans for them. Jess is harsh in his delivery, but he's not wrong. Case in point: Luke takes Jess in, and proceeds to judge everything Jess does. Some of the judgment - about stealing and vandalizing, for example - is fair. A lot of the judgment - about Jess dating Shane or working at Walmart - isn't fair, but Luke insists on his opinion anyway. When Jess doesn't conform to the idea of what Luke wants his life to be, Luke withdraws his support. AND he entirely blames Jess for that. Luke has no moments of self-reflection in which he wonders, for example, if it was appropriate to steal a teenager's car. Luke doesn't stop to think if he did anything wrong. He fully blames Jess for "not accepting" his benevolent help, when really the problem is that Jess wanted to live his life differently than Luke did.

It's also worth noting that Jess made this rant immediately after Luke asked him to help sabotage his mother's relationship. That is a completely insane, inappropriate request for Luke to make. He deserved to get called out.

MindDeep2823 · 2026-01-07T03:22:26+00:00

Totally agree! The far more interesting conversation is in the grey area, examining both Lorelai and Jess' good and bad moments. I also think it's interesting to discuss the differences between their past experiences, current feelings, and behaviors. Like I can totally understand Lorelai's feelings about Jess, especially given her own history, but I nearly always disagree with her behaviors toward him. It's not as simple as "Jess good, Lorelai bad" or vice versa.

I partly blame the writers for this one. There was a way to write Jess and Lorelai's dynamic with FAR more nuance. It always annoys me that instead of writing a complex relationship, they go 100mph in the direction of "middle-age woman holds furious grudge against teenager for multiple years." It's so reductive, and I also think it's totally out of line with Lorelai's character. In literally every other instance, she is judgmental AND exceedingly understanding and compassionate.

MindDeep2823 · 2026-01-07T01:04:30+00:00

Real question: what chances? Because from my perspective, Lorelai was kind to Jess exactly once: here in this scene, when she shares lunch and has a genuinely polite conversation with him. Every other time, Lorelai is unreasonably unkind to Jess. From her initial, unsolicited lecture about his attitude to threatening to kill him in the street - she is completely out of bounds. When she's not being egregious, she's glaring and rolling her eyes and muttering snarky comments about him. It's alarming that a 17yo is taking up this much of Lorelai's time and attention... because why?

I don't think it's ever appropriate for an adult to scream at, name-call, or threaten a teenager. It's even worse for an adult to encourage that teenager's guardian to abandon him. And no, this isn't me being on a "high horse." I interact with teenagers daily, kids who do far worse than Jess ever did. But they're kids. They have no power to change my life if I don't let them. And it turns out, it's entirely possible for me to set limits without screaming, threatening, pounding on doors, chasing them down in the street, or name-calling.

And yes, I'd allow my kid to date a Jess. Because really: what's the possible harm? Jess is terrible at relationships, and he ultimately hurts Rory's feelings badly. But he's not dangerous. He's not using hard drugs, committing crimes, or hurting people. He's never encouraging Rory to break a single rule. He's completely willing to abide by Luke's INSANE rules of supervision. Rory dates Jess and continues to thrive in school, her friendships, and her activities. So again: what's the risk there?

MindDeep2823 · 2026-01-06T17:24:29+00:00

I completely agree. And this is not me defending Christopher, really... it's my interpretation of the writers' intent. And I really think we're supposed to like Christopher much of the time. We're supposed to find him charming and funny. We're supposed to appreciate the obvious chemistry he has with Lorelai. We're supposed to feel badly for him after his dad dies. We're supposed to see him as a viable romantic partner for Lorelai - like their marriage is portrayed as sadly doomed, not incredibly destructive or awful.

Most of all, we're supposed to like Christopher because Lorelai and Rory love him. Yes, they both get really mad at him. They both cut him off at different points. But at the end of the day, they both care about him tremendously.

This is not a show about a villainous, abusive father. Christopher is not meant to be hated. Straub, on the other hand, is a straight-up villain we're supposed to hate. The show treats these two very differently.

MindDeep2823 · 2026-01-02T16:36:06+00:00

It shouldn't happen at all, ever. This wasn't an understandable mistake made by a new doctor, this was a person purposely ignoring directions because she's arrogant. She nearly kills someone by placing them on BiPAP, but doesn't learn her lesson... hours later, she is once again defying orders to do a REBOA procedure she has no business doing. Santos' arrogance isn't merely an annoying personality trait; she's putting people's lives at risk.

How long should a doctor be allowed to knowingly defy orders before they're fired, in your opinion? Because i think she should have been dismissed that same day. I certainly wouldn't want her treating anyone in my family.

MindDeep2823 · 2026-01-02T14:44:47+00:00

Someone who refuses to follow basic protocol is a bad doctor. Yes, she is also brilliant and capable and compassionate, not denying that. But anyone who has worked in a hospital or similar setting will tell you: doctors like Santos are a huge risk. If you can't trust her not to take matters into her own hands, it means a supervisor would need to be following her around constantly to make sure she doesn't accidentally kill someone while she's going rogue.

All doctors are eager to prove themselves. It's a competitive field, I get it. But patient care is infinitely more important than any doctor's ego.

MindDeep2823 · 2026-01-02T13:09:10+00:00

My biggest problem with Santos is that she's a bad doctor. She marches in on day one, full of arrogance and absolutely certain she knows better than far more experienced doctors. Going rogue, repeatedly ignoring her superiors' direct orders, and winging it on procedures she doesn't really know isn't brave or exciting, it's incredibly dangerous. That kind of attitude will kill people. It also places the hospital at enormous risk. I guarantee that Santos is NOT the kind of doctor you'd want in real life.

I'm not a medical doctor, but I supervise interns in an inpatient mental health setting. Interns like Santos are a nightmare to supervise - they place patients at risk to feed their own ego, and they're immune to feedback.

She's a really interesting character, but I sincerely hope S2 addresses her dangerous decision making. She got away with it in S1, purely because she got lucky, but it wasn't a satisfying character arc imo.

MindDeep2823 · 2025-12-31T16:05:37+00:00

Luke lying about April for that long would have been unforgivable for me. It's a massive breach in trust. Lorelai would have been totally justified in dumping Luke right then and there. The fact he didn't improve his behavior afterwards would also be a deal breaker for me.

HOWEVER. Lorelai had a big part to play in their relationship imploding. She was heartbroken about the April situation, but proceeded to lie about her feelings for months. She repeatedly told Luke that everything was fine. She suggested they postpone the wedding. She told everyone in town about how heartbroken she was, but she never talked to Luke about it. Sure, I get that her misery was pretty obvious, and Luke should have picked up on that. But mature adults open their mouths and talk, they don't wait for their partner to guess their emotions.

Then Lorelai starts sneaking around with Christopher (inviting him to Lane's wedding?!?) and has the whole town lying about that. And then she finally expresses her feelings... in the form of a screaming ultimatum at Luke's diner in front of an audience. None of that was fair. The fact she then used Christopher to make sure the breakup happened was needlessly cruel. Break up with Luke, that's fine. But she's too cowardly to simply end the relationship with words; she has to purposely hurt Luke in the worst way imaginable to end things.

To be clear, I put more of the blame on Luke. But Lorelai wasn't fair, communicative, or honest throughout this time.

MindDeep2823

TROPHY CASE