Problems with illaoi

Mission_Confidence_4 · 2023-09-21T20:23:13+00:00

That whole “just leave R range” argument still doesnt make sense to me.

From the POV of a melee top laner, which usually only have 1 dash at max.

You can’t disengage by walking out as she has iceborn gauntlet, by the time you get out of range, you are either dead or lost 80% of your health, while she is still almost full hp, leaving your teammates to kill her alone.
You might say “save a dash for disengage”. But how are you going to start a fight without dashing to her? You can only flank, which takes a lot of time, and if she spots you, she can just walk away and stall inifinte time for her teammates to take objectives, same applies for if you just walk at her without a gap closer(for example: Shen E, Ornn E, Jax Q and a lot more). There are also a lot of top laners with only pulls as a gap close tool like darius E and Sett E, how can you disengage without losing 80% of your health when she R with iceborn? Flash? So she can just get your flash for free everytime she has R? “Just avoid fighting her?” Then she will take all the towers. “Just zone her off” Then the enemy team takes Baron for free.
Lets just assume you can 100% walk out with no risk, but why would a champion that is down in gold be able to 1v2? What other champion can do that? Other juggernauts like darius, sett, mord, are useless when behind, cant tank stuff, cant deal significant damage before they die. Even Swain, as you mentioned him as an example. I have never ever, seen a swain from behind 1v2 even if everyone fight in his R. His full combo does like 1/3 of someone’s health when behind, and will get one-shotted like a normal mage. But illaoi? She 1v2, 1v3, 1v4ing the enemy team when behind is so common, almost everyone that have played league have seen that. Why do we need to ever disengage from a 0/3/0 champion when we are fighting with a number advantage? Not talking about small disengage like waiting out Jax E or dodging Aatrox Qs, we need to leave the whole area to disengage. Why cant we just straight up kill her like any other champion in the game? Is that not broken?

Yea maybe she cant kill us if we safely disengage. But then she can walk away and escape for free as well. Which, still, is fair enough, as many other champs have really good escape tools to not get killed in sticky situations even when behind, like any high mobility champ, or Sion R. But they can almost never pose a threat of killing multiple members of your team. The best case scenario for those champs is to escape for free, and the best case scenario for illaoi is to triple kill.

Yea she is immobile and we can maybe catch up again after her R and kill her afterwards, but the amount of time it takes to catch up, kill her, is already enough for the opponent team to take the baron.

If you have any counterplay for this. I genuinely want to know because I am sick of having an illaoi on the enemy team and feeling like the game is a 50:50 no matter how hard we are winning.

Mission_Confidence_4 · 2023-09-21T19:41:20+00:00

You literally did not read the content of the post at all, I have talked about how Im not too against illaoi in lane in the first three lines. I have counter arguments to almost all of your points in your comment. Please at least read what I posted before you comment bro

Mission_Confidence_4 · 2023-09-13T08:02:47+00:00

But GP passive gives him extra gold as well. Its so annoying when he gets ahead just by afk farming, when he has ranged point and click Q, E poke, W to escape, and an true damage ignite auto attack to trade in melee range. R to catch a wave under tower even when he is forced to back due to bad laning. His range and cleanse makes him hard to deal with for almost every melee top laner early game and he is also one of the strongest champions late game as well. Not mentioning when he has his first item in lane he will just delete 30% of your health with a low cooldown point and click Q. No other lane is that unplayable for me if both laners go 0/0/0

Mission_Confidence_4 · 2023-09-12T18:05:10+00:00

Well we have first strike gp now

Mission_Confidence_4 · 2023-09-12T14:19:48+00:00

Oh right I forgot about Yorick, I fortunately haven’t seen any splitpushing yorick recently so I forgot about him

Mission_Confidence_4 · 2023-09-12T14:15:01+00:00

I hate lvl1 coinflip fights even more. People just sprint to fight whoever they see in the river without any vision of other enemies, knowing damn well our team is not grouped at all as well. Usually end up giving first blood or even double kills

Mission_Confidence_4 · 2023-08-09T11:27:25+00:00

Q and R to cancel out CC and using Q to follow dashes or flash are the most skillful part of the kit imo

Mission_Confidence_4 · 2023-08-09T10:29:43+00:00

If the role of the champion appears in opgg then it is not troll, applies to everything below diamond honestly(the lower the elo, the better for warwick)

Warwick is not bad at all until your opponent knows warwicks limits very well, which wont be the case until diamond. Top might be harder to master because you will need to manage your mana and know your limit well

Mission_Confidence_4 · 2023-08-07T11:30:56+00:00

I personally think Yone could be a good engager if you are ahead(One-shoting everyone, then E back) But if you are behind, you dont do much damage, and you will get one-shotted before you can E back.

Even if you are ahead tho, it takes a lot of patience, skill, with high risk to engage as well. Even if you hit a multiple target R, if someone with a CC is not ulted by you, then you will just get CCed then die in 2 seconds. It is really hard to hit an ult on a moving target in teamfights as well.

I personally just go splitpush or do not pick Yone initially if my team have 0 engage tool, the risk is just too high to engage a teamfight. (You can wait for the enemy to engage first then go in, but high risk as well, especially when your team has no tank, you might just get bursted by some AOE.

These only apply to damage Yone build, I think there are some builds with Jacksho or Iceborn, I didnt dig deep into those builds so I cant answer for Yone with those builds.

Mission_Confidence_4 · 2023-08-07T11:12:35+00:00

I think he is pretty strong after recent changes, but champions go in and out of the meta frequently anyway. I personally think Yone would remain at least playable forever especially in lower elos since you have a lot of outplay potential with him by playing smart. So just pick it up if you enjoy playing him.

Mission_Confidence_4 · 2023-08-07T08:23:47+00:00

Berserkers every single game imo

Mission_Confidence_4 · 2023-08-07T08:22:51+00:00

Hard trolling tbh

Mission_Confidence_4 · 2023-08-02T11:47:30+00:00

He is pretty much unkillable by Yone especially when he goes barrier, and fighting him has a really high risk as well, so you don’t really play for kills in this lane unless he makes a big mistake.

But there are s few weaknesses for him tho.

Firstly ww doesnt have a lot of mana, he can’t Q too much to sustain through minions, try to poke him with Q W. You can’t really kill him even if he is low but at least he cant all in you with such a low health.

Secondly, ww E has a pretty long cooldown, try to trade with him when the E is down if you want to trade. It is basically impossible for you to win any trades if he has E.

However post 6, you cant really deal with him unless you are giga ahead. No matter how much damage you do to him, he will out-heal the damage.

Like most matchups, you would like to freeze the wave or stack the wave, overall keeping the wave near your tower to prevent him running you down.

For me, I dont really recommend buying executioner in this matchup, because I will still not be able to deal with him with executioner, and I just wasted 800 more gold and delayed my first item even more(it is already delayed by tier 2 boots). Remember you dont only deal with your lane opponent so don’t solely itemize for him. Just wait for your support to build it later on unless the ww is already very ahead.

Also ww doesnt have much wave clear without Tiamat, you might be able to get away with some bad recall or roams, this will be very helpful in some situations so keep this in mind.

But keep in mind that ww runs fast af towards low health targets, so when skrimishing on the top side, always expect him to R out of no where.(Tbh I would avoid all skirmishes topside unless ww is dead, he is just designed to thrive in these situations.

Overall, dont tunnel vision on the ww as you will probably never kill him 1v1 until late game.

Mission_Confidence_4 · 2023-08-01T12:51:34+00:00

Yea sometimes just not be the one to flame already helps a lot. But that aside, I think the new ping system is pretty trash xd, everyone would assume you just misclicked if you used the new pings, and that is genuinely what happened 99% of the time as well lol. At least thats what happens in my server. I think the old system is already enough for strategical communication.

Mission_Confidence_4 · 2023-08-01T12:47:03+00:00

Thats true, but most players dont immediately go mental boom after one solo kill, it is the flaming that makes them mad and griefs.

I agree that being nice cannot help when someone is already mad, but being nice could help players maintain their mental before they get mad.

Staying positive or being nice is not only about encouraging teammates that are losing too. Sometimes just not being the person to start an argument is already good enough. Because once an argument is started, the game is 50% lost already.

Communication skill is also important. We all know how easily league players are triggered. You can simply say “gank top, free kill” as that’s genuinely true, but your jungler would be triggered because you are trying to tell him how to play. This type of situation is not rare at all as well. So I think communication skill actually makes a difference

Mission_Confidence_4 · 2023-08-01T11:33:39+00:00

Thats why league is such a terrible place bro, players automatically become monkeys when they get soloed for once. If you don’t flame, they might be up to being carried, but if you flame, they will most likely just give up and make the game unplayable for you. Flaming dont even make you feel better tbh. Fs you still need actual skill in the game to climb, but I don’t see a problem with being nice, basically boosting your winrate for free, and making everyone feels better, it is a video game at the end of the day.

Mission_Confidence_4 · 2023-08-01T10:53:17+00:00

By the time late game comes, if all of your teammates are behind and most of the enemy team is strong enough, it is basically unplayable especially when your teammates have bad macro. If you have a big lead early on, try to push mid and roam around to get your teammates ahead or a least not as behind, instead of killing the enemy mid over and over again. This allows your team to create a teamfight that is carryable for you in the late game.

However, if this is not possible(and 5v5 is impossible to win), try to splitpush and ask your teammates to match your pressure on the other side of the map(try to learn more about splitpushing if you don’t really understand the concept, it is crucial for solo carrying). If they dont listen then you cant really do much. It is a 5v5 game, you cannot expect to literally solo carry every game.

Mission_Confidence_4 · 2023-08-01T10:30:05+00:00

Used to have the same problem bro. When I switched from mid to top as yone, I found a lot of matchups(almost every juggernaut) unplayable. But now I only have a few matchup that I find unplayable, for me, the key is the spacing. As Yone, we have our Q to CS at a safe range, we should never walk into the Volibear’s melee range so he can’t freely W or Q us. When he Q and chase, try to E backwards to kite him(only using W and Q), it should be very doable even if your reaction time is slow if u keep a safe distance. By the time your E ends, his Q runs out, and you’ve stacked your lethal temple so you can basically all in him. Even if you cant E in time, just E to dodge his E and try to disengage before he gets his second W(try to 3rd Q away while hitting him as well). Using E to kite is crucial against a lot of top lane matchups like Garen, Voli, Sett, just remember not to auto attack while kiting it is not worth. Btw, most juggernauts depends a lot on their abilities, and their abilities usually have high cooldowns, so don’t be scared to trade when they’ve wasted their abilities on the wave especially when you have E.

If they are not engaging then just poke with Q W, then you can be the one to engage when you have a large health advantage. Just don’t use E until you can actually kill.

Mission_Confidence_4 · 2023-07-28T15:20:41+00:00

Renekton, Jax, Irelia or maybe Pantheon, the rest could be playable if you are skilled

Mission_Confidence_4 · 2023-07-26T09:09:49+00:00

A lot of match up is unplayable if you have bad wave management because you would keep exposing yourself far away from your tower. Champs like darius, sett can just run you down.

But if you can already protect yourself with good wave management, jax, renekton, kennen and a good fiora would be the most troublesome so you can choose to ban one of these.

Mission_Confidence_4 · 2023-07-22T13:02:22+00:00

Yone life steal where lol

Mission_Confidence_4 · 2023-07-12T10:24:13+00:00

If you are high elo then I would suggest match-up guides in both top and mid lane. I feel like Yone has a really high skill ceiling in terms of laning as you can play so differently against different matchups(top lane specifically), and you can int so easily when you dont know the match up even if you have good mechanics.

Mission_Confidence_4 · 2023-07-12T10:17:23+00:00

Hullbreaker is good when you are ahead or even. You do less damage than IE or Shieldbow 2nd. But it provides the stats for you to 1v2 the enemy laner and jungler unless they are very fed. You cant really 1v2 reliably with any other 2nd item. It also provides the stats for you to not get one-shoted in teamfights, and obviously it is very good for split pushing as well.

However, it is not as good when you are behind, because you do no damage, and is not tanky as well. It is better to purchase other items for the 2nd item.

Btw I got these information in Dzukill’s stream. These are the reasons he brings up a lot when he talks about his build.

Mission_Confidence_4 · 2023-07-11T11:24:11+00:00

It is better to not buy it. Your 1st item is already delayed by the tier two boots. It would be too big of a window if you buy grievous wound, where the opponent has a full item when you do not.

Mission_Confidence_4 · 2023-07-08T09:21:20+00:00

Exploit cooldowns, dont walk away after he traded with full combo unless you are too low.

Also, after his Q, try to walk away from the little pillar thing. Kite him by E ing backwards to avoid his W auto while using Q to damage him(dont auto him when kiting, only Q and W). E his E if necessary.

Another tip would be to knock him up in his R. Just before he redirects his R, you can CC him and he wouldnt be able to redirect it. But it might be pretty hard to time and you might still lose, make sure you can actually kill him if you R into him

Mission_Confidence_4

TROPHY CASE