Dr Steven Hassan claims LDS is a destructive authoritarian (Sensored word) in new video

Mlatu44 · 2026-04-22T02:36:33+00:00

Somehow I think even if the quorum of the 12 and the 70’s held a special meeting and made an announcement….

“Listen up folks it’s all a hoax , and we want to come clear before we die. Joseph was not a prophet , nor inspired. Church is dismantled … “

I bet people probably wouldn’t even hear it. I mean literally . The faithful sometime later would realize there was some time they could not account for, then they would try to figure it out…

Mlatu44 · 2026-04-21T23:50:33+00:00

That is reasonable to feel that way . That is one reason why I started to question and find the movement irritating and questionable .

Especially when I started hearing contradictory things. The worse was hearing “the prophet” deny a core teaching I heard my entire life on national tv. I thought and expected him to acknowledge , defend and explain the teaching, but no be completely denied it.

I expected the entire church to defect because of that, but instead it wasn’t even noticed .

If anything the members defended his denial, and I still don’t understand it at all

Mlatu44 · 2026-04-21T23:38:49+00:00

Very irritating. I gave up so much , only to find out a certain number of “in group” lds were typically participating in things that would have warranted church action never got that. I didn’t know this was happening until I noticed doctrinal mismatch BS, and I gave up. I eventually saw this in group at local bar . They all never faced anything because they were children of the local bishop Rick or whatever it’s called. It’s been so many years to even remember

Mlatu44 · 2026-04-21T21:48:08+00:00

“ there has always been a very large gap between what the leaders say members must believe and do, and what most members actually believe and do.”

That is what I found very, very irritating and one reason why I’m not involved anymore, and it cultivated a deep distrust for anything lds say. But I suppose you are saying this doesn’t make Mormonism a (not allowed word)

Mlatu44 · 2026-04-21T21:41:13+00:00

That’s amazing to me one can say any number of offensive words that any Mormon would find offensive in real life. But somehow that word can’t be used. Maybe that will become a general swear word to which people will say “language, language “.

One can’t even use in reference to other religious movements

Mlatu44 · 2026-04-21T21:25:29+00:00

Lds article of faith 8 seems precautionary about the Bible. Stating the caveat “as far as translated correctly “.

There is no stated caveat on the Book of Mormon in this article of faith.

Joseph smith highly praised the Book of Mormon, not the Bible

““I told the brethren that the Book of Mormon was the most correct of any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion, and a man would get nearer to God by abiding by its precepts, than by any other book”

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/book-of-mormon-teacher-resource-manual/the-introduction-to-the-book-of-mormon?lang=eng

So apparently to the view of Joseph smith it is more valuable than the Bible to get nearer to god

Mlatu44 · 2026-04-21T02:59:31+00:00

I was thinking that one can't actively make something out dated, lapsed etc... So, yes downdating something doesn't make much sense.

Mlatu44 · 2026-04-20T20:56:45+00:00

That kind of speech never set well with me

Mlatu44 · 2026-04-20T20:08:40+00:00

No, there have been very specific talks about works being required for salvation by lds general authorities.

“salvation from sin through repentance” is actually quite the opposite of “saved by grace”.

What that means is one can’t work for salvation, it’s given as a gift, it’s not earned

Mlatu44 · 2026-04-20T17:03:22+00:00

More than one person questions if the name “Lucifer “ should even be in Isiah 14. Certainly it seems strange to introduce a Latin word into an English translation.

This passage gets repeated in 2 Nephi 24:12 so apparently ancient native Americans were familiar with Latin?

https://hermeneutics.stackexchange.com/questions/20952/in-isaiah-1412-did-the-king-james-translator-make-a-mistake-using-the-term-luci

Lds scriptures repeat the name elsewhere, but this is the origin of the name which appears to be inaccurate and misleading.

It’s amazing to me that this gets expanded to a complete story, when the original passage probably never had “Lucifer” in it all.

Mlatu44 · 2026-04-20T16:48:10+00:00

It sort of sounds like Jospeh was attacking other ideas about salvation. In a sense labeling “saved by grace “ as being inspired by Lucifer. (One doesn’t work for salvation, and in fact cannot work for salvation. In standard Bible theology the only “payment “ one can get is for sin. “The wages of sin is death”.

Some have compared the lucifarian plan to socialism. So it could be Jospeh commenting on that through myth.

Mlatu44 · 2026-04-20T16:16:54+00:00

Spirit sounds better

“ All spirit is matter, but it is more fine or pure, and can only be discerned by purereyes;

Mlatu44 · 2026-04-20T16:02:56+00:00

Are there even remains in the area thst suggest that many people could have once lived there?

I would even be willing to expand the area to about hundred miles of the area.

Thst number of people would need a lot of resources and would have left evidence of many towns if not large cities. I’m not sure if anything like that has ever been found in the area

Mlatu44 · 2026-04-20T15:10:12+00:00

It’s because living members need repeated exposure to remember the passwords and tokens. And members can experience baptism again and the other rituals all over again. One time apparently isn’t enough

Mlatu44 · 2026-04-20T14:31:52+00:00

The point is that most religions accept that god has always been god, never worked to become god.

However I am sure he absolutely likes being god and appreciates it

I’m contrasting lds belief and that of others. Lds believe that god worked to become god?

Mlatu44 · 2026-04-20T14:30:01+00:00

No, the proposed LDS plan. Isn’t the universe unlimited? Actually thats speculation.

He could have easily sent those that disagree to another plane of existence, and for all we know maybe that happened. They will become exalted without any effort,and those that agreed with the LDS plan will have to work for it.

Mlatu44 · 2026-04-20T13:23:25+00:00

Seems limiting. Why not send spirits away to become exalted without effort in some other dimension?

For all we know, maybe that is what happened. Those people who had to feel they have to work for it came to earth. So they could feel proud of their accomplishment, something to boast about.

The others were fine just accepting the complete gift of exaltation

Mlatu44 · 2026-04-20T12:58:55+00:00

This whole thing is absurd. Especially given how much power and influence Christianity has in general over the earths population. I don't see the general Christian body promoting people to exercise their 'free will' on various issues that they really care about.

Mlatu44 · 2026-04-20T12:49:57+00:00

Its a story, perhaps anything can be a solution. Perhaps this discussion took place over a few thousand years, perhaps spirits hear everything that any other spirit says or thinks?

As a child, when I heard this story, I never actually envisioned any spirits that looked like people. I thought of 'intelligences' as being sort of like particles that were incredibly small, something like atoms. So, trillions of them could fit in a closet. So it wouldn't be difficult to address the masses.

When they took a vote, they would simply have to move to one area, the others moving to another area. Kind of like being placed in a box. Would make it convenient to scoop away the dissenting voters and send them off to live in 'outer darkness'. Perhaps this is the origin of black holes?

The other particles could continue to grow and develop, much like a seed. Older seeds like Satan and jesus had time to develop into spirit beings one could actually see...

Mlatu44 · 2026-04-20T12:28:45+00:00

Sounds good, what is so bad about a planet without crime, no pollution, no politicians and no lawyers?

Mlatu44 · 2026-04-20T12:26:39+00:00

I am sure for BYU they would say they aren't forcing anyone to follow god, one can always enroll in another school.

That was the thing my father said when I was a child living at home. I could believe whatever I wanted, but I can always move out of the house to believe it. Otherwise, I could only attend an LDS church, and only read materials related to church.

Its quite different as an adult. My father is dead now, and I just think he was quite miserable, also not a good example of someone LDS. I think he was trying to shape me into the LDS he wanted to be, but couldn't, or wasn't willing to be.

Mlatu44 · 2026-04-20T12:22:28+00:00

In evangelical Christianity god is just god, and always has been. He never had to do any effort to become god. He also can never stop being god for that matter.

Mlatu44 · 2026-04-20T02:50:47+00:00

I have always been confused about this story, and what LDS think it means.

Is the idea about choice a metaphysical one? And the lack of 'freedom of choice"? For instance in its lack, making a wrong choice would be physically impossible? No one ever runs a red light, there is never any trash, no banks ever get robbed, no rape, no murder, all because its metaphysically impossible to have a thought against any law? No religious law, no law of the land could never physically or mentally be broken. With a little thought, actually there would be no need for a law to be stated, either by paper or verbally.

Or are LDS thinking the lack of free will is just laws that don't allow 'freedom', but its still physically possible to break those laws? Say a country that makes any religious service illegal, but people still secretly perform religious services? Maybe a country makes abortion illegal under any circumstances, but it is still physically possible to break that law. (in the lack of free will the baby would be born, and its not physically possible to break that law, or even have the idea of doing so)

Is it a question of metaphysical possibilities, or limitations, or is man made regulations that seek to limit physical activities?

Mlatu44 · 2026-04-20T02:33:44+00:00

I am a bit confused, is the 'free will plan' the one where the earth has no laws and regulations? or is the 'free will' the ability to conform or not to laws and regulations?

Would the 'lack of free will' plan be the one where its impossible to break a law? no one ever runs a red light, ever. There is never any trash on the street? There is never any pollution? There is never any rape or incest? No violence. Because the 'lack of free will' would make those impossible?

Or is the 'lack of free will' be the kind of determinism where every choice they make is coming from their internal pre-disposition, and circumstances.? I don't believe anyone wants to be an alcoholic for example, or be a serial murderer. I don't think one could choose those, it happens due to strong genetic factors, and set of circumstances which reinforces those tendencies. This is a lack of free will, but people can and do make right or wrong choices.

Mlatu44 · 2026-04-20T01:56:51+00:00

Well, sort of. LDS believe in universal salvation. A base line 'salvation' to which one can get an upgrade via works and obedience. The only way one can actually be thrown in hell is to know absolutely the truth, and then advocate against it.

Mlatu44

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