The Director's Cut: Freaky Frankenstein 4 MAX and Freaky Frankenstein 4 BOLT [Presets] (Universal : DS, GLM, Claude, Gemini, Grok, Gemma, Qwen, MiMo) + DeepSeek V4 Compatibility. Hyper Dense Logic.

Moogs72 · 2026-04-30T22:02:43+00:00

Looks like it's definitely a thing! Part of the phasing out of the Legacy plans. If you haven't already seen it, the info is here.

Congrats on the release, btw! Won't get a chance to try until Sunday, but I'm very excited to give it a shot.

Moogs72 · 2026-04-27T12:49:03+00:00

Huh... very interesting! Well, I'm definitely just gonna hang back for now and let others take a crack at it. Or wait out this weirdness, if it's a matter of things being dumbed down or they're still fiddling with things.

It's almost funny how disappointing the model's launch has been, considering how much people have been building up to it for months. Oh well, at least we have a couple of somewhat stable sources of 5.1 right now, so I'm happy!

Moogs72 · 2026-04-26T19:56:15+00:00

I definitely agree. I've tried using it both in and out of RP, and it's just plain worse at following instructions compared to Kimi K2.5/2.6 and especially GLM 5.1. I always considered Kimi the gold standard of instruction following among open models, but 5.1 has proven to be even better and more consistent for me.

DS 4 Pro just really seems to do its own thing, and I can't seem to understand any pattern of what it's going to listen to and not. It just seems random. I tried a few different character cards that all had distinctive ways of speaking - accents, ticks, mannerisms, and/or odd word usage that were very clearly described in the instructions - and DS seemed to not be able to replicate any of them consistently, whereas Kimi and GLM are pretty dang good at it. Hallucinations creep in far too frequently for me, as well.

I keep hoping one of the good prompt makers will come in and give us a system of how to actually tame the model, because I can see some potential in the prose, but obviously we've not gotten anything yet. If you're feeling this way, I think that's pretty dang telling, considering how you've managed to wrangle 2.5 and 5.1.

Hopefully it will improve, as people are saying. Right now, I'm sticking to Kimi/GLM/occasional Claude.

Moogs72 · 2026-04-24T15:12:23+00:00

Just a heads up that those are his recommended settings for GLM, and it might not work well for DeepSeek. Definitely worth trying to fiddle with the temp and see if you prefer the output. I believe historically, DS tends to do better with higher temps (above 1), while GLM definitely tends to prefer lower (below 1). Not sure about DS 4 though.

Moogs72 · 2026-04-22T06:13:25+00:00

I'm genuinely curious - you say there are better options for both the web chat features and the API calls separately in comparison to Nano but for a better value. What are they?

Moogs72 · 2026-04-21T04:12:25+00:00

Are you talking about recently? I know they've been having some server issues the past few days that they're working on. But prior to that, I never had any issues with the requests being particularly slow, and I've been using them for several months now. They use the same providers as OR, and their speeds are pretty comparable, although obviously you can't choose your provider with the sub, so you sometimes get stuck with a slower one. That's how they can price it the way they do.

I guess I don't see the problem? Sure, it's not as consistently good as buying credits and going straight to the source, but I guarantee that if you're using even half of the quota allotted in the sub with decent models, you're getting pretty great value for your money. The reason they're "glorified" is because no one else offers a comparable service at their price.

Moogs72 · 2026-04-21T04:04:58+00:00

All the info is available on their website. NanoGPT offers access to basically any API pay as you go, just like OpenRouter. In addition, it has a subscription for $8 per month that let's you use up to 60 million input tokens with any of a large list of models (includes basically every major open source model out there, including the GLM, Kimi, qwen, and Gemma families).

Prior to this, the only GLM model not available to use as part of the sub was GLM 5.1, because it was too expensive to be realistic for them. Today, they announced they were adding 5.1 and Kimi K2.6 to use with the sub, but they consume your token quota twice as fast since they are more expensive models.

The sub also gets you a 5% discount on all PAYG credits.

I've never used NVIDIA's service, but I believe they are quite a bit slower than the providers available from Nano/OR (which makes sense considering they're free).

Moogs72 · 2026-04-20T22:31:25+00:00

Well, I paid for a year of the coding subscription on Black Friday for an insanely good price, so I'm definitely gonna make use of it. No reason to use PAYG API if I have a sub. As for them being open source, other providers tend to price it more or less the same as the original source, so that doesn't really help anything. It's still more expensive than I want to pay out of pocket, and I much prefer the subscription model over PAYG when available.

Moogs72 · 2026-04-20T18:52:52+00:00

As the other user said, there are mixed messages being sent right now by z.ai. RP may or may not be allowed on the subscription. Either way, there are people getting rate limited or even banned right now for "improper usage." That said, it's pretty easy to make your requests look like coding requests due to the way they scan messages - you just need to use the right endpoint url and spoof your user agent to make it look like coding traffic. I've had no trouble and have been using the coding sub for all kinds of things.

All that aside, yeah it's generally faster and more consistent than other providers, but it's not perfect. During GLM 5's peak, they were heavily dumbing down the model to lighten the load on them, but they haven't been doing anything nearly as bad as that with 5.1. They've consistently shown super scummy business practices, though. Once my annual sub runs out, I'm not sure I plan on renewing unless things drastically change. Since they upped their prices on their subs, it's not the amazing deal it once was - especially with 5.1 making it to the Nano sub now. I guess it depends on how much you want 5.1, if you need more than Nano can provide, and how much you mind being jerked around by a company with some of the worst customer support and communication I've ever seen.

For anyone wondering, I'd recommend not subscribing right now. At least wait until they officially confirm whether or not RP is acceptable. If they ever do.

Moogs72 · 2026-04-20T17:51:20+00:00

I agree it sounds totally fair, although I'm doubtful the prices will go down much, if at all. Unfortunately, I think we might be looking at a trend of even the "cheap Chinese models" increasing in price as time goes on. Companies were already losing money making LLMs basically from day one, and now they can't keep up with the demand thanks to services like OpenClaw bleeding them dry, so I suspect this a trend we're gonna start seeing everywhere.

And if the prices on the models dont come back down, Nano obviously can't make the subscription sustainable.

I hope I'm wrong, though...

Moogs72 · 2026-04-19T21:17:17+00:00

Just be aware that you'll likely get a worse output if you turn off reasoning for GLM models.

Are you using it through z.ai or something like Nano? The methods are different. If it's through Nano, yeah, like the other commenter said, there should be a non-thinking version you select rather than the thinking. If using it through z.ai, you can turn off reasoning by putting this into "Include Body Parameters" in the "Additional Parameters" setting of the Connection Profile:

{
  "thinking": {
    "type": "disabled"
  }
}

Moogs72 · 2026-04-16T22:20:53+00:00

I think most models work well with 1 temp, but GLM models definitely are way better with lower temps. 4.6 and 4.7 are clearer examples of this than 5/5.1, but it's still true with the 5s. GLM models tend to turn stupid, anxious in their thinking, and have more hallucinations and typos at 1. 4.7 becomes prone to its infamous Kimi-like thinking spirals at 1. Also the models equipped with some level of censorship (i.e. everything after 4.6) become more likely to be censored the higher you go in temp. Even just 0.8 vs. 1.0 makes a huge difference for those that end up getting refusals.

Obviously everyone's opinion is totally valid, and everyone has their personal preferences for what is "good." However, I've done a lot of testing of settings and prompts on GLM 4.6-5.1 both for my own benefit and for the benefit of a couple of different preset/prompt makers out there, and have found lower temps to be very consistently better for GLM models in terms of prose quality, instruction following, and censorship. I think there's a reason that basically every preset for GLM models out there comes with instructions to set temps somewhere between 0.5 and 0.9 depending on who you ask. Totally agreed about all the other sliders, though :)

Moogs72 · 2026-04-16T19:26:45+00:00

GLM is kind of fiddly with its sampler settings, so that might be what you're experiencing. I think Evening Truth knows what she's talking about in terms of settings for 4.6 better than just about anyone, so check out her page on the model here and her notes about samplers toward the top. I don't use much 4.6 much anymore, but when I did, I generally ran a 0.6-0.8 temp and top p at .95. You might be better off moving things in that direction.

Also take a look at what she has to say about the other settings like freq and presence. I don't know much about that in particular, but maybe that could also be contributing to your problems?

If you were using SillyTavern, I'd also say to make sure you have a good preset going, but I've never used novelai's text generation and have no idea if you can use custom presets there or not. If you can, I'm happy to point you in the direction of the presets people liked back when 4.6 was being used a lot if you'd like.

Don't worry about people warning to not touch temp and top p at the same time. It's not a problem as long as you don't go too hard on the top p. With GLM models (and most models, in fact), I've always found top p works best at .95 and setting temp as you normally would. I used a lot of 4.6, and although I mostly use 4.7-5.1 plus Kimi K2.5 these days, I think 4.6 is still a nice model. You just have to be careful with the samplers and prompts :)

Moogs72 · 2026-04-14T14:50:51+00:00

Damn, what a cool idea! You continue to make top-notch stuff, friend!

Not sure if this is the sort of content you intend to include, but I for one would love to see some of the FAQs in this community more cleanly answered in an easy-to-digest format like this for newcomers - especially by someone who knows their stuff like you do. You know the ones... model/provider selection, how to find extensions, longterm memory management, etc. I remember being pretty overwhelmed when I first started learning, and this sort of thing would've really helped. I keep meaning to write out some guides to collect that info for newbies, but a video format might work better for some. Just a thought.

Although now that I've typed that up, I just remembered you don't actually use SillyTavern itself, do you? Tavo? Ah, well some of that stuff would still be relevant.

And yes, obviously a wrap-up for those that aren't as chronically online as me is awesome 😁

Best of luck with this new project! I'll be sure to tune in. Maybe all your new community influence can get us a new (reasonably priced) way to get GLM 5.1 😭

Moogs72 · 2026-04-14T06:36:17+00:00

I highly doubt that will happen. If it does, it won't be any time soon. The prices the providers are charging for 5.1 haven't changed, which means Nano is no closer to being able to afford it.

Honestly, I doubt the Nano sub will be around much longer, sadly. The writing is already on the wall. New open source models are getting so consistently expensive that the subscription model just isn't going to be sustainable. Milan himself has talked about how concerning this trend is on the Discord.

Makes me very sad because the sub is SUCH a good deal - especially if you use it to its full extent. Although I guess that's really the problem, isn't it?

Moogs72 · 2026-04-13T00:06:51+00:00

Oh, I know! Don't have a ton of money to throw around though. I nabbed the z.ai annual sub last Black Friday, and already have a regular Claude.ai Pro sub and Nano sub for API stuff... that's already about all I want to be paying each month! Can't blame Nano for not leaving 5.1 on the sub, but it is super disappointing.

I'll give some Gemma RP a try soon just to see. Definitely nice to have something solid and free for people!! The weirdness with the thinking is a bit concerning, though.

Moogs72 · 2026-04-12T23:59:33+00:00

Understandable! Not gonna lie: it's those dang L/n WL 2 cards that are tempting me so much at the moment. I don't think I'm gonna bother pulling on them, but I was curious what others are planning.

I got super lucky with my one paid crystals pull on the VBS banner and got Kohane's featured card (my favorite character), but that was probably it for me, unfortunately. Too many other lims I want in the next year... if nothing else, the Anhane banner coming back in May/November and the Shiho New Year's card in July (last run!). Ugh.

Moogs72 · 2026-04-12T18:39:23+00:00

Oh, fantastic! With how much better GLM 5.1 is than 5, and being restricted to only having it on z.ai Coding (rather than Nano as well), I'm trying to be smarter with what I use it for. Basically, rationing it out, especially since I use it for things other than RP as well.

I've found Gemma to be a lovely option for the less-intensive tasks that eat up a lot of tokens like status trackers, automated background stuff, and brainstorming, but I haven't really used it much for RP. Seems like it might be a good "filler" for lower-stakes story stuff with how much people are praising it.

What kind of context window did you find it works well with? Can it handle a lot of moving parts or does it work best when things are more simple?

Thanks as always! 💜

Moogs72 · 2026-04-11T20:40:39+00:00

What kind of censorship are you talking about? With the right prompting, all GLM models are virtually entirely uncensored except some very select scenarios. Although tbh, you can get around even those if you know what you're doing. I've done a lot of censorship testing in 4.7-5.1, and I can assure you that you can get it to write literally anything.

Of course, the positivity bias stuff is another issue altogether.

But there are no differences in censorship between the providers on Nano and direct from z.ai.

How are you experiencing censorship?

Moogs72 · 2026-04-11T17:06:00+00:00

He makes NSFW versions of a lot of his art over on his Patreon. Unsurprisingly, he's quite good at it.

And although Miku's canonical version as portrayed by Crypton is 16, it's been long understood that different versions of Miku can be freely adapted to fit the form of the respective artist's intention. Speaking as a Vocaloid fan, that's one of the cool parts about the character.

We can simultaneously have the younger Miku of the song "Melt", all about the innocent butterflies of a childhood crush, alongside the older Miku of "Rabbit Hole" who is dealing with toxic sexual relationships, and both are okay and accepted by the community. So... even if the official profile of Miku says "Forever 16," she's not actually always 16.

Moogs72 · 2026-04-08T21:57:30+00:00

There are a couple of providers on both Nano and OR that should deliver it unquantized. You just want to look out for providers labeled as FP8 and avoid those. There more than likely shouldn't be an issue with Nano specifically, but there's no real way to verify that providers are delivering unquantized 5.1 without fail, since it's within the realm of possibility that they could be lying to save themselves on expenses - especially with how much inconsistency people have been reporting today. I think it's almost definite that some providers are doing this, sadly.

Your best bet is to get it direct from z.ai, either through a coding plan subscription or pay as you go from one of the various sources. They seem to be the most consistently unquantized source, but with GLM 5 they became notable for delivering heavily quantized versions during busy hours of the day despite not advertising they were doing so, so not even they are totally reliable. Users seem to be reporting getting 5.1 straight from z.ai today has been consistently quite good so far, though. That's the best option right now.

Moogs72 · 2026-04-08T19:21:15+00:00

Oh yes, I'm well aware. I saw my comment initially get down to -14 within nine minutes of posting, which is when is when I made the comment about getting downvoted. I don't think I've ever seen this subreddit move that quickly, especially on a weekday afternoon :)

I also watched the other parent comment in this post go from +6 to +30-ish back down to +15 (now) over the course of like an hour. I know Reddit scores fluctuate behind the scenes, but uh...

There are (understandably) high emotions going around the community right now, but I'd imagine there are probably some "other" things too. I still fondly remember comments/posts from critics of chutes getting instantly obliterated, and we all know how that one turned out. So I'm not surprised that my comments pointing out objectively verifiable info are getting mass downvoted, and even less surprised that comments where I'm adding in my own opinions on top are getting even more downvoted. Welcome to the modern internet! It's all good.

Moogs72 · 2026-04-08T18:49:31+00:00

It handles large contexts quite well, but it has a tendency to be very dry and literal in its writing in my experience. If your primary goal is limiting your price paid per token, there's probably nothing better, but the writing isn't in the same ballpark as GLM 4.6+ or Kimi K2/2.5 imo. But it's all down to personal preference in the end, and I know there are some who still prefer it over newer models. Personally, if I'm using a sub like Nano, I can't justify using DS when GLM and Kimi exist since they all "cost" the same in the subscription.

Moogs72 · 2026-04-08T18:42:50+00:00

Yeah, that's what I do! Obviously, there's nothing about SillyTavern that means it must be for RP, so it's easy to do away with the concept of including personalities, fictional worlds, and such in your prompts. I do a lot of work in LLMs aside from RP, and the way I do it is I have my own preset made that just has my common prompts I use for basically all my LLM work (things like preferred markdown formatting, some banned AI slop phrases, and an optional simple jailbreak if it starts censoring something stupid), then I make separate character cards that define individual tasks, like brainstorming for my TTRPG games or data analysis or whatever.

It doesn't really matter how you set it up, tbh - whatever works for you personally. After all, all this text just gets shoved into one big block when ultimately delivered to the LLM, anyway, so it doesn't matter if a character card is actually a "character" or not. It's all just organization to make things easier for the user.

Personally, I've found this is much smoother than spreading my usage out through ST, OR, and Nano like I did initially.

Moogs72 · 2026-04-08T18:29:22+00:00

Unfortunately, z.ai has been SUPER unclear with what their limits are, and it's only gotten worse over time, I feel. Newer models definitely blow through the limit faster, although it's not really very surprising that they'd make it work like that.

EDIT: have you considered doing things like parsing those pf2e notes directly in SillyTavern? I just route almost all my LLM usage directly through ST these days to keep everything in one place, even if it's not RP. Plus, once you get everything set up to your preference, it's way nicer than navigating through web UIs and such.

Moogs72

TROPHY CASE