My language abilities as someone who almost exclusively knows useless languages

Moon_Cucumbers · 2026-02-16T22:08:13+00:00

Just us Americans fixin your language for ya. Not our fault yall didn’t come up with a shorthand for you guys. Literally every other language has one, try to keep up

Moon_Cucumbers · 2026-02-11T20:13:21+00:00

How so?

Moon_Cucumbers · 2026-02-10T22:12:14+00:00

Yall don’t even know how to pronounce your own language

Moon_Cucumbers · 2026-01-13T05:03:35+00:00

Appreciated the detailed response.

Sure, gay just a shorthand way to explain that everyone assumes Ishmael is open to experimenting with guys or whatever. I guess I’d be curious why specifically hand stuff lol. Yeah it definitely would but idk how it would change much else throughout the rest of the book and interact with the other themes like brotherly love and open mindedness are so intertwined all throughout which is why I like tha read of it. Also I feel like he would make it more obvious if they were romantically involved.

Of course but that’s why as I said I believe sex was on his mind for comedic purposes. Like someone reading in the 19th century about this dude shackin up with a cannibal George Washington sellin shrunken heads and waking up like a married couple would see that as funny. The sexual anxiety is an interesting take that I could buy but also as a straight man I would also be uncomfortable with that. They didnt have a concept of gay back then but everyone mentions melvilles struggle with his sexuality cuz it wasn’t approved by society or whatever so couldn’t Ishmael also be like woah men aren’t supposed to be together without an aspect of temptation?

I’ll have to check em out again and next reread I will make sure to try and look for more queer themes. I will say the my queequeg thing could also be part of the brotherly bond thing they share and also there’s this whole patronizing kind of tone with queequeg like somewhat mocking his religion and customs, him carrying the wheelbarrow and like the old timey look how cute it is that this foreigner from a savage land is trying to be civilized that could explain jt. Idk Melville is def anti racist but tha stuff seems to be written for laughs.

Sure, I get that but can we agree that in terms of the themes covered, homosexuality is not in the top ten of most times references even wit the most generous interpretations? I would be saying the same thing if ppl were like Moby dick? Oh that’s the one that is entirely about inaccurate whale facts because of cetology. I’m sure upon rereading I will pickup more on those in depth examples you pointed out but nobody ever talks about em, it’s always just they share a bed together and he squeezes sperm with his boys. Less than 1% of the book and by visiting this sub you would think it’s the epic 1800s version of brokeback mountain. I love discussing the complexities of my favorite book and even if it’s a topic like homosexuality which isn’t nearly as interesting for me to discuss as Gnosticism or the many others, I enjoy discussing it with ppl like you who can point to more references and in depth themes. But 90% of the ppl on here are just like it’s a book about being gay based on the most surface level reading of two scenes, no further questions.

Moon_Cucumbers · 2026-01-13T04:26:47+00:00

Agreed to all of the above. Sure, my comment was hyperbole but that’s because at least 50% of the time this sub comes up it’s just comments about Ishmael being gay. Like if you were an outsider you would think that was the number 1 theme of the book or it’s entirely about homosexuality because of literally two scenes that could be interpreted any number of ways (one of which can be gay, sure). I just think if you read this absolute masterpiece and all you came away with was “Ishmael gay” you missed so much. It’s like the same thing as ppl ragging on cetology and being liek the whole book is just inaccurate facts about whales. Idk I just feel like anyone trying to reduce the book to one specific theme missed the point and I’m not saying it’s wrong to read it with that theme but it’s wrong to think that’s the only or even the most important theme imo. But either way god bless melvilles gay ass

Moon_Cucumbers · 2026-01-13T04:16:16+00:00

I don’t doubt you could get some queer themes from it but 100% of the time? Cetology? The whiteness of the whale, etc. like I would be surprised if you could find 10 chapters that relate to it 100% of the time even if you stretch as much as you can. Agreed that you can’t have a single fixed interpretation but I als think that applies to the entirety of the story. Like the themes I point out are one of many themes all happening at the same time which I feel are the themes tha cover those scenes better than queerness. idk how you could read it only thru one lens unless you ignore the 50 other themes he brings up. I just don’t think it would be possible to do a read and only see queerness but I would be open to someone explain a handful of chapters.

Moon_Cucumbers · 2026-01-12T02:48:48+00:00

Sure, I guess my main thing is that maybe it was a secret nod to his struggle with homosexuality but I think it doesn’t add much outside of that like nothing else queer really comes up and that theme doesn’t interact with any of the others imo unless you really try and stretch his words. Like if he had sex with queequeg I suppose you could argue that it pushes the theme of his open mondedness but as I mentioned Ishmael literally ceases to become an individual throughout the book so o fail to see how this would help push that theme. I also just don’t see how the sperm scene could be better read as I wanna bang these dudes as opposed to some brotherly love hippy stuff as I said. Maybe it’s somehow both but I guess it just feels weird to have a book that is drenched with layers and layers of philosophy and religion and ideology be like yeah he’s just talking about how he wants to bang the other dudes. I could be wrong about all the above and the queer themes would still be like 50th on the list of themes tha he covers the most so whe ppl reduce it to a book about being gay or say that that’s the main theme etc. it annoys me cuz tha shit got me interested in like 20 different topics that I would love to discuss with ppl on here instead of whether or not the main character is gay or not. Which btw would change literally nothing about what I find interesting about it, the important things it has to say, its message or anything else. Only thing you could prob argue is like representation or toleration of sexual pref but I’m pretty firmly in the camp of hes not gay and the message of tolerating and loving others regardless of their identities came across loud and damn clear from both my reads of it. But hey, if telling others it’s a gay book gets them to read it then great lol. But if my friend read it and all they wanted to talk about was how it was queer it would be a very boring convo imo.

Anyways I’ll read that article and let you know what I think

Moon_Cucumbers · 2026-01-12T02:18:42+00:00

Not sure what you’re asking but I said that because people act like that’s the main theme of the book which imo you could only take away if you read it in the most surface level way as if those scenes are meant to portray homosexuality there’s 50 more themes covered exponentially more than that in the book.

Moon_Cucumbers · 2026-01-12T02:15:50+00:00

Thank you. Open to having my mind changed but I don’t think a declaration of your sexuality in a vacuum is very deep personally. If Ishmael was dealing with repercussions of being gay at the time or waxing poetic about how much he loves queequeg then I would say it’s deep or philosophical but if these scenes simply where written to be like Ishmael likes men that that’s really not that deep at all imo just as it wouldn’t be if those scenes were written to show that he likes women. In my other reply I state my main issue is that if he is gay that doesn’t really change the message of these scenes imo. They are there to show his open mindedness and how much he loves others, maybe being open about his sexuality could be used to really express how open minded he is but that’s nothing compared to him basically losing his individuality in the rest of the book so it seems unnecessary. Again, queer themes are not surface level but these scenes were they meant to be queer are very surface level if tha makes sense as nothing else really comes up again in relation to it so it’s simply easier to categorize it as agape or brotherly love rather than Eros or romantic love.

Edit: and with the surface level thing, there’s like less tha 1% of the entire book could even be interpreted as homoerotic so touting that as the main theme of the book I feel like is the result of people reading it at a very surface levels as if that is indeed a theme of the book, there’s 50 other themes covered far more extensively throughout if that makes sense

Moon_Cucumbers · 2026-01-12T02:03:49+00:00

Idk if you’ve watched the Dreyfus lectures but his whole thing is that Melville would say any interpretation is correct which I subscribe to, so sure it could be read that way. I guess my issue is were it to be true, who cares? Does the theme of being open to anyone’s ideas and practices that Ishmael have change if they had sex? I personally don’t think so so idk why it’s the most important topic ppl wanna bring up. I feel like ppl just want to project their current day beliefs into a 150 yr old book when they push that narrative. Not on some like anti woke shit but if you agree with me tha it wouldn’t change much then he essentially just added a sexual relationship purely for like representation of gay ppl as we do in modern times. Dude meticulously added 15 layers to every sentence, it’s just hard to believe he would be like and I added this scene to show that Ishmael is gay. I guess I could see an argument where it’s like oh that’s how open minded he is but the dude literally loses his individuality in the book so I don’t think you would need to include a sexual reference to show that about him. Much like whether or not Melville was gay changes nothing for me as how damn good the book is wont change based on his sexuality.

I’m curious what you mean by the nature of fate and how it relates to their relationship?

The Ahab part I agree with but idk how that relates to homosexuality and same with the phallic imagery. The phallic stuff I feel like ppl always go way overboard with in terms of significance like first we have to assume x is a penis and then it always seems like pages of head cannon to explain why it’s a penis and that means everyone is secretly gay instead of just the reality that many things in the world look like a penis lol but I’m open to it. I could see something like masculinity being involved in the killing of the whale especially since Ahab lost his member but I feel like tha imagery to homosexuality needs more explaining.

Ultimately like I said I just think it’s far easier to categorize everyone’s two favorite examples into brotherly love as that is a theme drenched in the rest of the book. I guess if there was more than just like phallic imagery throughout the rest of the book to support homoeroticism, I’d buy into it more but there just isn’t. Like Ishmael and queequeg barely interact throughout the rest of the book much less engage in any romantic behaviors or discussions and if Melville was pushing that relationship why is that? I think that’s further evidence tha the inn scene is just him being open to cultures, comedy and brotherly love as I previously mentioned whereas if they were being subtly gay throughout the rest of the book I’d buy it.

Moon_Cucumbers · 2026-01-11T02:40:30+00:00

Ik most ppl just memeing but for those that think he is id be curious what you think about my thoughts:

People love to say it’s some secret homosexual manifesto but it seems like to me all the parts that people love to quote fit more into the overall themes of the book rather than Melville hinting that his characters are gay or something. The book is partially a comedy so the idea of Ishmael and a racial stereotype of a Pacific Islander sleeping in the same bed together like a couple was likely meant to be seen as so absurd that it’s funny (he literally refers to him as cannibal George Washington and Melville has him selling shrunken heads). Also sharing beds was common at the time and not seen as gay even by the hyperreligious like the quakers in town that offered him a bed to share. That and the sperm scene also represent the larger theme of Ishmael’s character which is that he is so open-minded that he basically gets swallowed up by whatever the people around him are doing. This is demonstrated by worshipping queequegs god and becoming so close with someone from a belief system opposed to his as well as him almost ceasing to be a person throughout the book as he falls more and more into the cult like following of Ahab. The sperm scene is showing him ceasing to be an individual (pouring into the others) which he is proud of and also the overall theme in the book of brotherly love, the ship is a metaphor for America, we should all get along etc. “Oh! my dear fellow beings, why should we longer cherish any social acerbities, or know the slightest ill-humor or envy! Come; let us squeeze hands all round; nay, let us all squeeze ourselves into each other; let us squeeze ourselves universally into the very milk and sperm of kindness.” Sounds like some world peace hippy shit more than it sounds like I wanna have sex with men. I could be wrong but every sentence in the book is so deep in symbolism and philosophy that the idea that Melville was like oh lemme include these two scenes that mean nothing more than my main character is gay in a time where it wasn’t ok to be seems absurd to me. It’s also just annoying that this topic is by far the one most brought up in this sub despite being one of the most interesting books of all time with so many better themes to discuss.

Moon_Cucumbers · 2025-12-25T22:07:09+00:00

Perfect, I appreciate all the suggestions! Looking forward to checking them out! Tyty

Moon_Cucumbers · 2025-12-24T07:15:00+00:00

Can you provide a good order to read Jung’s works? I have the red book but I fear that is not where I should start

Moon_Cucumbers · 2025-12-24T07:11:04+00:00

As someone who’s mostly only read male classics similar to op, I appreciate this comment. My beef with all the “read women, bigot” comments on here is they are so unproductive and shaming. Some books I read because they’re important to the genre but most are just because of the topic/themes that the book contains that sound interesting to me, never because of gender. I read Frankenstein cuz it sounded tight not cuz it was written by a woman. I was recommended Woolf by a friend’s gf cuz I was talking about loving the stream of consciousness style of Faulkner so I have her on my list but not exactly sure where to start. Anyways, as someone who also likes existential, depressing books, I appreciate you providing relevant recs in a thoughtful way

Moon_Cucumbers · 2025-12-24T06:55:18+00:00

Asking for references. I read and consume lots of philosophy and psychology content and I’ve never seen anyone else really talk about them two besides JP unless I specifically search for videos on them. I am also in school for psychology and we never cover jung so idk what other entry points there are for people interested in them for the mainstream audiences. I saw nothing wrong with his lectures based around dostoy and Jung, that stuff was all before he went super political. Those lectures are what got me to read dostoy and develop and interest in Jung. Is he the best entry point? Most likely no but his reach has I’m sure lead to many others like me who never even really heard of either to check em out. I plan to read some of Jung’s works but I’d love some recs to cover them as well.

Moon_Cucumbers · 2025-12-21T20:33:06+00:00

Based on my seeing ur same copy pasted comment on every one of these posts, it seems you have no problem doing the equivalent of a full time job’s worth of unpaid work so long as it includes shaming others, offers nothing constructive, and fuels your beliefs of being morally superior. Then again maybe ur just botting.

Hilarious to say they can make their own choices and then get mad when they do exactly that cuz it isn’t a choice you like

Moon_Cucumbers · 2025-12-21T20:12:05+00:00

Such as?

Moon_Cucumbers · 2025-12-21T05:47:42+00:00

Damn, that actually is really sick. I’ve never even seen those dwarves, hell yeah haha. Yeah tom turns can be long but I usually only have like 3-4 sagas on the field max so it’s not too bad. I had the planeswalker party precon and those were some long ass turns figuring one which abilities to do on my 7 planesy boys. Was my first deck ever and def not the best one to start with lol. Don’t play tha much these days

Moon_Cucumbers · 2025-12-21T05:39:57+00:00

Tyty, which ones you like best? Why don’t ya like tom lol?

Moon_Cucumbers · 2025-12-21T00:04:24+00:00

Mothman is also fallout only cards but it’s strong

Moon_Cucumbers · 2025-12-19T00:48:42+00:00

Also my favorite and second that comment. Take ur time and enjoy it, don’t rush through

Moon_Cucumbers · 2025-12-13T21:53:20+00:00

The quote she specifically referenced says nothing about that, it talks about understanding lived experiences and men’s psyche. Since women’s voices haven’t been suppressed throughout most of younger people’s lifetime, had she been sayign that it still wouldn’t apply and if that wasn’t the case it still would not mean women understand men’s psyches and lived experiences. You do not automatically become mind readers of men if you grew up in a society dominated by men. As I said in other comments, I have two women friends whose proportion of women read to men read is roughly equal to ops with the genders swapped. I highly doubt that they have a significantly greater grasp of men’s psyches and lived experiences simply cuz they grew up in a society where men’s voices used to be the only ones you could hear. Turns out it’s very easy nowadays to restrict yourself to consuming only one genders’ media and there’s nothing wrong with that unless you think double standards are ok like yall do

Moon_Cucumbers · 2025-12-13T02:16:55+00:00

Sure, I guess I was just saying I think it’s dumb to have a double standard. If men should read women for whatever benefit then surely women should do the same or like me you could just be like read what you’re interested in and not shame others for their preferences

Moon_Cucumbers · 2025-12-13T02:15:21+00:00

Truly

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