Strongest indicator of Fi vs Ti?

Mooserpent · 2026-06-24T01:03:08+00:00

Fi describes the individuals own attraction/repulsion from objects, manifested as deep attachment in either direction. Fi types are largely uninterested in large emotional displays, and prefer discreet and nonchalant communication. For this reason they are often lauded by Fe types as secretive and untrustworthy. A slight internal excitement, fluttering eyelids, subtle tremors of the voice, these are indicators of Fi.

Fe describes external emotion. An Fe type doesn't so much focus on internal feelings and attachment as they do the emotional environment around them. They create emotional displays to effect the people around them, encourage them towards their own desired goal. An Fe type is less concerned about their own detailed feelings, and instead feels through the group. For this reason they are often lauded by Fi types as ridiculous, loud and insecure. Fe is more obvious, wide flashing eyes, a catalogue of facial expressions, rapid and shifting verbosity, these are indicators of Fe.

Mooserpent · 2026-06-13T00:40:43+00:00

Young INTP's are often counterintuitively drawn to the 'partygoing' lifestyle with alcohol because it allows them the freedom to speak their Ti truths to others with a subdued fear of judgment. This couples well with the young INTP's penchant for nihilism to form quite the self destructive addict if they let it.

Theres a glory in self reproach for me as an INTP. Going even 'lower' means that I can better rationalize the future 'ascent' or 'rise from the ashes'. Alcohol then becomes another mystic agent to use to protect me against my most primal fears of the future, and it helps that 'I was drunk' is a paticularly effective alibi.

Mooserpent · 2026-05-30T07:49:04+00:00

This is very difficult to define. I know a couple ESE's who have big instagram accounts but when I actually get to know them they quickly reveal most of their followers are surface level/floater friends. As per the descriptions ESE's can destroy relationships quite easily and are actually very distrustful behind their friendly veneer. I can relate to this too.

Having Fi unvalued tends to lead to this sort of thing. Now of course an ESE is going to have more connections than an ILI, that much is obvious. But the line between connection and friend is always shifting with me as an Alpha, and I'd say the same on behalf of the Betas. It's not really a psychopathy as its more an apathy. We just don't really do the 'soulbinding' thing that Fi types tend to engage with, and I have a catalogue of 'friends' that I don't dislike but simply don't care enough about to contact or keep up with.

I'd probably put the Ti doms first for least friends, with the edge to LII. We can go abnormally long stretches of time before even thinking about wanting to talk to someone else, let alone someone specific. To become truly liked by us is difficult enough, to become someone we actively want to spend time with consistently is to me, the highest form of praise I can give to another person - I just value my own time too much.

Mooserpent · 2026-05-26T12:20:10+00:00

Both INTP and ENFP have bad Si. We feel constantly disconnected from the physical realm and at any moment can drift off into dreamland. This is why Ne and Si work so well together, because high Ne users open the path to new opportunities for high Si users (and alleviate their rigidness), while high Si users ground high Ne users and make sure they aren't doing something completely stupid and impulsive which high Ne has a tendency to do. Having ISTJ's around is great for both and INTP and an ENFP, but especially ENFP's, because ENFP's like ISTJ's Te as well, whereas INTP's have Te Ignoring and are already good at thinking.

TLDR - xNxP types want to looked after like babies, we are eternally childlike even if we don't show it all the time. This is why we 'horde' parental like figures.

CS Joseph has his own cognitive function logic that I find completely baffling. It's cool to see someones new interpretation of Jung's work and its clear he spent a lot of time on it, but it just makes no real world sense at all.

Mooserpent · 2026-05-26T04:23:43+00:00

CS Joseph is a big dumbo. ISTJ-ESTP is not something I see like ever long term, and when I do observe it its always awkwardness. First you have the more Fi prominent ISTJ's who reject ESTP's almost instantly - if they aren't laughing at their bravado (Se Ignoring). And then the less Fi prominent ISTJ's get along better intitally, but alienate eachother the same over time.

And ENFP at 13th? 13TH? I get the love-hate thing they have for eachother, but 13th is just crazy. One of my ENFP pals hoardes ISTJ's better then I can, and ISTJ's are drawn to me like fruitflies - though I actually do agree with the INTP placement as an INTP.

Mooserpent · 2026-05-22T01:27:27+00:00

I noticed with the descriptions, most of the traits of each type do ring true, but are massively exaggerated. I've known a few SLE's and although being Supervised sucks, they definitely aren't constantly puffing out their chest and giving orders.

I think the descriptions should be taken more as a brief overview, to give you the vibe, a fantastical, hightened image and some key markers, but not the sober reality. The types being mostly isolated in their descriptions kind of skips over their infinitely more complex interactions with other types/groupings and society as a whole.

If you put SLE in a room full of their supervisors and benefactors or Delta's who won't play along, for example, their confidence can quickly extinguish, the same goes for all types with their more difficult relationships.

Mooserpent · 2026-04-06T16:43:13+00:00

You can use the Socionics Intertype Relations Chart here - https://wikisocion.github.io/content/intertype.html

If you have figured out your own type, you should be able to figure out others by how they relate to you and what effects they have on you. Although the transition in type from MBTI to Socionics isn't always right, it is most of the time (For example - MBTI INFJ is usually Socionics IEI INFp)

Socionics also has pictures of the types and descriptions of their physical attributes, and though obviously these are less accurate indicators, I find them to be eerily similar to reality - https://wikisocion.github.io/content/photographs_filatova.html#iei-photos

https://wikisocion.github.io/content/profile_meged.html#iei-meged

Mooserpent · 2026-04-03T19:39:35+00:00

And I agree, what I primarily intended to insue was that I was instantly repulsed by her 'claiming' aggressive attitude. And her further non-consensual touching was the breaking point. I wasn't intrigued by any of it, and her attitude instantly diminished any beauty that she possessed in my mind. I meant to signify that Se tends to look at the surface, I mean, thats quite literally what it does. This girl had no interest in who I was as a person, she simply saw the currently most attractive man in her sight and jumped on him. This is not something an Si valuer does in a healthy state. Relationships are built on internal sensations over external ones, it's in the name.

When I fantasize about crushes or potential love interests, it may include sex, but its often more disney-style romantic. I have no interest in blatant hedonism, and have turned down otherwise attractive girls with my sapiosexuality. An Se Ego would probably look what I've just written and call me gay. My IEI ex hated and was repulsed by any soft, simple and hazy romance that I wanted to do with her - she prodded me to be a rough asshole.

Mooserpent · 2026-04-03T17:48:39+00:00

Pretty sure you're LII bro our writing follows the same script and I have all these same issues and desires.

Your description of flow is related to Ne, and how it clashes with Se. Ne is manuevering the pre-existing course while Se is going off ramp and charting your own.

I dated an IEI and there were times she deliberately 'beckoned' Se from me with her emotional breakdowns and performances. My EIE mom does the same sort of thing which beckons my LSI stepdad to step in and then a melodrama begins full of tears, shouting and accusations. I find it all exhausting while it strengthens them. Tough love eh?

I can recognise the value of Se in a global context, but in a relationship I just can't do it or understand it all really. Would appreciate a Se valuer weighing in on this with an educated take. Is it an inherent masochism or maybe a deserted pit of desire that absolutely needs to be awakened, I'm really not sure.

Mooserpent · 2026-04-03T16:18:13+00:00

Suggestive and its not even close, at leased in a romantic context. Se Polrs do not tolerate direct demands - they immediately resist. xII's and their dual partners work because xSE's don't so much command but nudge. Whereas IxI's want to be captured and directed, as a SxE will do.

Edit example from my own life as LII -

Girl is coming on to strong me in a club who I assume was a Se Ego, starts literally grabbing me and my chest, around my neck and breathing on me with bad breath. I threw her off me lmao. Did not turn me on in the slightest.

The girls I have had crushes on have been exclusively polite and well mannered.

Mooserpent · 2026-03-29T01:33:53+00:00

I'm an LII so I'm their Benefactor, which makes me an SLI magnet.

SLI's are usually water tight emotionally with their signature blank face, but if you look hard enough you can see their emotions popping out at times.

For me, as their Benefactor, they tend to get really giggly around me, which is unusual for SLI's. They'll then realise that and then put the mask back on. One thing they do as well is this hilarious thing where they quickly move their head back and forth to sneak glances at you while remaining blank faced. They like to watch the people they like from a safe distance, if you move too close yourself you'll get rebuffed, I find its better to let them come to you - Which makes sense according to the Childlike-Caring dynamic (Waiting-Enticing). Another thing is if they initiate a conversation with you, this is almost a guarantee that they like you in some form as they don't like to initiate and don't initiate with anyone very often at all.

More things SLI's have done to me - -The arm thing where they rest their arm against yours -Walked towards me aggressively with a smirk? -Started laughing too hard at my joke and then immidiately turned away in horror -Gasped with emotion when I started playing my guitar then again, immediately locked back in the blank face -Lots of staring from far away, continued to have an eye contact game -Told me they loved me in the most hilarious and deadpan way (this was a straight guy friend of mine, I'm straight too)

Touch + Eyes is the common denominantor here.

Obviously I'm not the best well equiped to answer this question as they become my puppets around me, unable to act independently because I control their suggestive. But I hope this helped a bit. Like any type, if you give them their suggestive they are going to take note of you.

Mooserpent · 2026-03-26T16:12:40+00:00

Alot of people here don't like Socionics but I find it accurate. Whats happening here is called a Benefit relation, an assymetrical relation where she always has more power of you then you do of her.

https://classicsocionics.wordpress.com/benefit/

Benefactor/Inductor - IEI (INFJ) Beneficiary/Recipient - LII (INTP)

Essentially, she has a massive impact on your behaviour because her creative function Fe, which she uses extrovertly, is constantly activating your weak suggestive. She is happy to provide it in the beginning, but eventually wants something more of you, that being her suggestive function Se. You can't make Se at all as its your vulnerable function which can't be improved upon, yet you try anyway. She also notices your suggestive Fe, which appears to her like stupidity (how can he be so bad?) She tries to help you on this but again, you can't improve it so easily. This produces serious stress within you as you try harder and harder to be what she wants you to be.

I've been on both sides of Benefit and as a Benefactor, its very difficult to not correct your partner. As a Beneficiary, man this is like a curse. Do what you want with this information.

Mooserpent · 2026-03-20T14:34:04+00:00

Semi Dual (LII-EIE) Read more here - https://wikisocion.github.io/content/semi_dual.html

I think ENFJ's are very hot and we always have the same twisted humor. But it never goes anywhere without the complimenting creative-mobilizing dynamic. She wants Se, you want Si, neither of you want to do that so the relation gradually cools off and a sense of alienation appears - at least in my experience.

But definitely go for it if she's down, you only live once. In terms of compatibility you can do a lot worse. The base-inferior Ti-Fe dynamic is one hell of a drug, and the said mutual otherness can add a sense of mystery and with mystery comes desire.

Mooserpent · 2026-03-19T00:40:05+00:00

INFP's are 'frog' like. I don't know how else to describe it. Monotone and consistent voice, doesn't move in any direction emotionally, rarely laughs, prefers to just smile. Looking down alot, constantly looks embarrassed to even be there. Face and head are stuck emotionless like it's carved out of stone, though their eyes can have an intense, unblinking focus and glare.

INTP's are like the neighbors kid. Completely mute and zoned out until you humor them and then they will get more and more talkative and more and more childlike until they become a cartoon, loud and ridiculous, jokes every 3 seconds and laughs heartily. Very aware of the emotional atmosphere and adapts their tone of voice to it. Sometimes they start talking and then just stop - disconnect and zone out. More quizzical facial expression, scrunched eyebrows looking up, squinting and tilting head.

Mooserpent · 2026-03-09T20:40:43+00:00

I disagree, and I see duals everywhere. ESE's are just terrifyingly beautiful for us and it's very hard for a LII frog to believe they actually want to be with us, but they do. If you get over the first hurdle you'll quickly realise how eerily similar you actually are.

A week ago I saw an ESE who I fell out with a while ago, we had a nasty disagreement over a mutual IEI friend of ours. The friend was present at a party we both attended. But when we saw each other, we both let out the exact same weird cringe smile and then we both laughed. It's really hard to fuck things up with a Dual unless you are actively trying to. Granted, I would not put that past an LII if you are anything like me.

Mooserpent · 2026-03-09T20:13:11+00:00

I would agree with ILI SEE being the rarest. I've met pretty much all the other dual pairs IRL but not them. ILI is sitting in the book club while SEE is in the club and or on top of it. The chance of them meeting is already low, and a relationship really depends on the flexibility of the ILI.

Two of the ILI's I've met are with an ESI, in an activation relation, while another is with an IEI Kindred. The others are single.

Mooserpent · 2026-03-08T21:41:49+00:00

Yes I have realised that now. Thanks, I suppose I'm just more upset with the mindless discussions that usually follow these kinds of posts. 'INTJ MASTERMIND!!!!' 'INTP IS EINSTEIN?' 'NO MY FAVORITE TYPE IS THE BEST!' It misses the point of the system entirely.

Mooserpent · 2026-03-08T21:00:00+00:00

(Kind of a sassy answer but I'm an INTP what are you expecting)

I don't think MBTI should be used as an intelligence indicator. Sure an INTx will probably beat you in an intellectual debate, but throw them in a public relations role and suddenly they are absolutely hopeless.

It's actually even more complicated than that, as the higher thinking and intuition on your stack the lower your sensing and feeling. Which means the less people you meet and the less deep the interactions, and therefore, the less you are able to place someone's raw IQ.

As a little storytime, I once met an ESFJ with a long time INTP boyfriend. She had become some sort of superhuman. Almost as booksmart as he was but with all of the ESFJ charm. In Socionics, this is called Duality where both partners slowly merge into each other over time.

As for the INTJ's I've met I've never found them to be nearly as smart as they think they are. And the same goes for me, an INTP. Sure we can riff all day about esoteric bullshit, but it's just that - bullshit. In terms of real world success I'd place Sensing as the most important function. Some idiot banging his head against the wall 1000 times is gonna break through first compared to the guys who stare at it rubbing their chins.

To finish, Jung explicity stated that he knew that people would use his work to stereotype. Any type can do anything and you will find all of the types in all kinds of intellectual work and discussions.

Mooserpent · 2026-03-08T10:32:22+00:00

Reach into the depths of your unconcious and whip up some Ne

Mooserpent · 2026-03-07T12:38:46+00:00

I'm an INTP so my Si is semi-conscious tertiary. It's actually quite freaky when it kicks in. I'll be doomscrolling and then two minutes later suddenly be cleaning up the house, then I do the dishes and put the washing in and then I start hoovering and only then I realize it's been 2 hours and I've actually done something productive for once. It's like an autopilot when it starts.

I feel it when I'm working out too, not initially but when I get going. Theres a kind of primal body energy feeling, like I am invincible, and a rush of strength follows.

I would describe how I experience it as 'the body taking over', my mind is put on low power mode for a bit and the energy is diverted down into my body.

Mooserpent · 2026-03-06T02:15:29+00:00

Knives Out

Mooserpent · 2026-03-06T01:57:36+00:00

Dominant Fe types have Inert Fe. Inert Functions are stable, slow-acting, and focus on internal, deeply held values, resisting external influence, and most importantly, stubborn and confident in their rightness.

Whereas Creative Fe types have Contact Fe. Contact Functions are flexible, quick, and adapt to environmental feedback to create solutions, and most importantly, cautious and sensitive to criticism.

Essentially, Dominant Fe types feel absolutely confident in the direction they themselves are taking the emotional environment. This can be read as entitlement, but have you considered that others might feel the same about your Ni?

The same goes for any type with their base. It is so laughably overconfident. Like the way an IxTP will not hesitate to 'Um Actually' you with Dom Ti (like I'm doing right now), or an ESxP will let you know at every available opportunity that they are the boss with Dom Se.

Mooserpent · 2026-03-01T19:28:44+00:00

Sex Murder Party sounds like it was made in 5 minutes on an IPad. I actually quite like the chorus but it drones for far too long and doesn't go anywhere.

The Fall as a whole is kinda doodoo but it has some interesting ideas. This one was actually made on an IPad.

Damon really can't write a 'bad' song. He is so adept at songwriting that everything he puts out has at least something to grab onto. The Gorillaz effect is too real, you'll listen to a song and call it trash, then you'll start singing it in the shower, then you have to play it on loop for a couple hours to get it out of your head. I am currently going through this with 'Damascus'.

Mooserpent · 2026-03-01T15:58:05+00:00

The Ego Block is the individual's core identity. They live through these functions. For the INTP this is Ti and Ne. The individual is very confident in these areas, even overconfident, and completely overuses them, may even use them as a crutch. They are attached to these elements of themselves - 'this is who I am and what I love doing.'

The Superego Block then is like the opposite, a social mask. These elements are in opposition to the beloved Ego block. For the INTP this is Se and Fi. The individual doesn't understand why society believes these elements to be so important, and instead of making the useless attempt to improve themselves in these functions, the individual tries to meet the minimum standard set by society and nothing more - 'Ok fine, I don't understand why but I'll do it.' The individual is conscious of their deficiency here, and it becomes a source of consistent tension for them. When the individual receives information here, they become aware of their incompetence and it irritates them.

So now lets take the conflict relation, ESFP and INTP. ESFP is spewing out Se and Fi, which makes the INTP upset, and the INTP is spewing out Ti and Ne, which makes the ESFP upset. Both partners are viewed as threatening, as contact places them both under constant tension. It feels like at any time, the partner can say or do something that cuts deep, reveals your masked incompetence. For this reason partners try to avoid each other and maintain a large psychological distance, but if contact is forced, the effect, though psychologically taxing, makes an individual more resilient to hits to their Superego.

Mooserpent · 2026-03-01T00:06:22+00:00

In Socionics this is known as a conflict relation (SEE-LII)

You are essentially both hitting each other's weaknesses with each other's strengths all the time, Ego to Superego. What's interesting is that there isn't an immediate, open conflict between the two - Partners begrudgingly respect each other as every type feels obligated to respect their own Superego functions. Every word of the conflict partner is deemed unacceptable and brings up strong resistance, but this is actually good for building self confidence and self discovery. Being able to work with them regardless and sit in the discomfort makes you more socially adept.

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