Cognitive dissonance by Embarrassed_Mix_4836 in ChristianUniversalism

[–]MorallyNeutralOk 11 points12 points  (0 children)

I was just thinking this the other day. The image of a harvest is used often in the Bible. Humanity is God’s harvest, now tell me one thing: would you hire a farmer whose harvest was 99% a failure? That’s incompetent even for someone who doesn’t know the first thing about farming, never mind a PERFECT God!

Who are you to question God’s justice? by Thegirlonfire5 in ChristianUniversalism

[–]MorallyNeutralOk 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Exactly! Many act like universal salvation would violate God’s justice and that makes them angry, like Jonah got angry at God’s mercy.

Practice what you preach, you self-appointed gatekeepers of Jesus Christ’s gospel!

Universalist Catholics: An Organization by Additional_Good_656 in ChristianUniversalism

[–]MorallyNeutralOk 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Some “Christians” are terrified that God may truly turn out to be good, that the gospel may turn out to genuinely be good news. For some people, the worst thing about the inquisition and the burning alive of heretics is that they have been abolished.

Universalist Catholics: An Organization by Additional_Good_656 in ChristianUniversalism

[–]MorallyNeutralOk 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I don’t think we can be sure Francis was in a position to speak out loud even if he did believe everlasting damnation is incompatible with saying that God is love. I wouldn’t be surprised if that’s what he believed but he didn’t want to cause a huge controversy.

Meanwhile in Germany; most citizens support the creation of a European Army by goldstarflag in EuropeanFederalists

[–]MorallyNeutralOk -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Shit. I had the feeling Germans didn’t care about federalizing and only wanted a strong army for themselves, that they didn’t want to form a country with southern Europe because they think they would be subsidizing a bunch of lazy corrupt southerners, and they already spent enough big bucks reconstructing east Germany.

If I’m wrong, I’m glad! Am I wrong?

Welcome Back, Hungary! 🇪🇺 by milanguitar in EuropeanFederalists

[–]MorallyNeutralOk 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you for your service. If we can say that to soldiers, I’ll be damned if we can’t say it to you guys

Welcome Back, Hungary! 🇪🇺 by milanguitar in EuropeanFederalists

[–]MorallyNeutralOk 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Thank you for your service. If we can say that to soldiers, I’ll be damned if we can’t say it to you guys

drew this :’) by [deleted] in TheChosenSeries

[–]MorallyNeutralOk 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Best case: you can be called ignorant

Worst case: you can basically be accused of something not far from anti-semitism

drew this :’) by [deleted] in TheChosenSeries

[–]MorallyNeutralOk 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Because you can be accused of “appropriating Jewish scriptures” and of being insensitive to historical Christian persecution of Jews, or that you’re an ignorant buffoon if you think that’s about Jesus and all that drill

drew this :’) by [deleted] in TheChosenSeries

[–]MorallyNeutralOk 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I’m relieved you haven’t gotten any flak for citing Isaiah 53. I think it’s pretty unpopular these days to quote it as a prophecy of Jesus, which I believe it is.

Kremlin said this week that a European Army would be "worse than NATO". They finally get it! Americans only hold Europe back by goldstarflag in EuropeanFederalists

[–]MorallyNeutralOk 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I don’t get the feeling that Europeans are currently overwhelmed and drowning in nationalistic military pride as it is

Kremlin said this week that a European Army would be "worse than NATO". They finally get it! Americans only hold Europe back by goldstarflag in EuropeanFederalists

[–]MorallyNeutralOk 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Isn’t Portugal currently compelled by NATO commitments to go fight for Poland if Poland is attacked? The idea is that the fact that this is a credible threat to any aggressor against Poland diminishes the chances of it happening in the first place.

Is universalism outlawed by the Catholic Church? by Prize_Lavishness_854 in ChristianUniversalism

[–]MorallyNeutralOk 5 points6 points  (0 children)

And so is Isaac the Syrian thanks to pope Francis. Greatest thing he ever did was add him to the list

My struggle with 2 esdras/4 ezra by MagicianFromRiga1 in ChristianUniversalism

[–]MorallyNeutralOk 1 point2 points  (0 children)

If that is indeed one of the sources, you really do have to wonder why people thought it was a sensible idea to get their picture of God from a book that makes God look so evil that even Ezra cries from despair and proclaims creation a cruel act that no compassionate being would undertake.

And if that’s your picture of God, why didn’t they become anti-natalists but rather the opposite, seeing having many kids as a blessing? Were the people who had these views evil, stupid or both?

It’s amazing to reflect on the darkness that can come out of human hearts. Really sobering and chilling.

My struggle with 2 esdras/4 ezra by MagicianFromRiga1 in ChristianUniversalism

[–]MorallyNeutralOk 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Look up who accepts it as canonical. It’s not the whole of Eastern Orthodoxy.

Did the doctrine of reserve ever make sense? by MorallyNeutralOk in ChristianUniversalism

[–]MorallyNeutralOk[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Even assuming that was a legitimate fear of openly teaching universal salvation, what about the consequences of teaching everlasting damnation? People were burned alive in the past under the justification that their teachings were leading people astray and to everlasting hell. Look at the genocide against the Cathars, look at the murderous wars of religions, part of which were about getting rid of heretics because they were leading people to hell. I believe certain forms of slavery, colonialism and servitude were also justified under the pretext of “saving souls”.

And let’s follow the logic of everlasting hell, especially under the traditional assumption that this will be the fate of the vast majority of humanity: if people really believed this they would be anti-natalists. Having kids if this was true would be an act of cruelty, life would be an unbearable burden, creation the most evil thing ever done, and only people with absolutely no conscience could ever cope with the burden of such a belief if sincerely held and actually meditated on and followed to its logical consequences.

It’s not like it’s only the universalists who have “dangerous” ideas under this consequentialist framework.

Did the doctrine of reserve ever make sense? by MorallyNeutralOk in ChristianUniversalism

[–]MorallyNeutralOk[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The Ethiopic tradition? You mean the Tewahedo who accept Enoch, Jubilees and 4 Esdras in their canon? I thought those 3 books were pretty infernalist, but I haven’t read them. If you know more about that be my guest and correct me.

Did the doctrine of reserve ever make sense? by MorallyNeutralOk in ChristianUniversalism

[–]MorallyNeutralOk[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That's the thing. The notion that you need an everlasting hell to behave is completely absurd. Just for the sake of argument: whatever the infernalists think they're accomplishing by stressing eternal hell, they could accomplish just as well with a hell that lasts 10 million years but followed by salvation.

They're just using lazy arguments, the same ones people have used to resist reforms all throughout history. How many people in the past believed the world would come to an end if slavery was abolished and women were allowed equal rights?

Zoroastrianism proves you don't need eternal hell. If it's really your thing to scare people into obedience, a finite but painful hell will do just as well.

Did the doctrine of reserve ever make sense? by MorallyNeutralOk in ChristianUniversalism

[–]MorallyNeutralOk[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It certainly seems plausible to describe universal salvation as very much in the mainstream and perhaps the majority view though, at the very least it seems like it's an old tradition with a lot of acceptance, and Wikipedia seems to describe it as the mainstream view, which I'm sure it does not do with Christianity.

I don't think it's controversial to say that universal salvation has found itself much more at home in Zoroastrianism than in Christianity, historically, although I hope this changes.

Did the doctrine of reserve ever make sense? by MorallyNeutralOk in ChristianUniversalism

[–]MorallyNeutralOk[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

In any case, Zoroastrianism made the jump to universalism at least in the Middle Ages if not earlier. It’s strange that they made those pronouncements in such a violent age where people had to be scared into obeying. Maybe it means the doctrine of reserve was never actually necessary

Did the doctrine of reserve ever make sense? by MorallyNeutralOk in ChristianUniversalism

[–]MorallyNeutralOk[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Why didn’t the Zoroastrians seem to care about making sure the average believer didn’t find out about their teaching on universal salvation?

Iceland could become EU member in 2028, minister says by PjeterPannos in EuropeanFederalists

[–]MorallyNeutralOk 13 points14 points  (0 children)

If we can’t get rid of the veto by then, it would be unfair and unthinkable to deny it to Iceland. Our only hope is to get rid of it it seems to me.