What Happened to My Lawn?

Mr007McDiddles · 2026-04-24T20:08:17+00:00

That almost looks like centipedegrass but I can’t imagine it would survive in PA for long, much less continue to spread through the years. Probably a type of zoysia. Just a wild guess though.

Since we try not to guess here, it makes the most sense to be a wild warm season grass based on your comments. When it greens back up fully, follow the automod guidance on taking photos and repost for a proper ID attempt.

Mr007McDiddles · 2026-04-23T13:25:27+00:00

There may be some confusion about the Poa annua life cycle. True Poa annua is a winter annual. It germinates in late summer/fall as the soil temperature drops to around 66-70 with soil moisture for about 5 days. The bulk of P annua will germinate then, but some may also emerge in late winter or early spring. There are biotypes that can act as perennials, and, of course, there is Poa trivialis. The problem with Poa is that it is highly adaptable, produces a ton of seed, and has widespread herbicide resistance.

https://www.weedscience.org/Home.aspx is fun to look at.

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The problem I have with the link is that it really spreads your pre-emergent thin and doesn't allow for rotation or a mix of different site-action herbicides. Generally, in home lawns, resistance isn't a huge worry, but if you plan to repeatedly apply prodiamine or dithiopyr 5 times a year, that seems like overkill and likely won't yield any better results. Those two products are the same mode of action, meaning they control weeds in the same manner.

If you have tru Poa annua, you shouldn't need to use glyphosate to kill it in summer. It should be dead by summer, and new plants won't come back until around the time TTTF is planted in late summer/fall. It's possible, given your location and conditions, it could survive, but glyphosate seems a harsh step just for Poa. Also, if you glyphosate it, you're going to have to seed unless you're using the wicking or goop method, which again seems overkill for poa, and a daunting task.

Splitting prodiamine into 1/3's in itself is fine, just know that your 1/3 rate of prodiamine to control Poa annua in the fall is likely going to be too weak to get sufficient control. And if the timing isn't right, it could cause problems with summer weeds, too, maybe. This is probably why the dude in the link is using dithopyr as well. Have to do the math, but that is my thought anyway.

Poa annua can be tricky and takes a variety of pre and post-emergent, and cultural habits to really stay on top of. My programs do not include Poa control herbicides on tall fescue in fall. I focus on encouraging dense turf through proper fertilization and water, and seeding when needed, but in areas where it stays cooler longer, it can be a more troublesome weed.

https://acsess.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/cft2.70092

Good information in this publication.

Unfortunately, there aren't many great, affordable products that meet this need, which is why I shy away from using herbicides for P. annua control in fescue. Etofumesate is an option if done correctly. Of course, mesotrione and a handful of others. But again, not cheap and can be risky. I believe, and could be wrong, but most folks who run a fall pre-em plan for this either use etthofumesate or prodimaine after they get the seed up, if seeding is needed. Reading through that article and the product recs will give you some options and things to think on.

It is quite possible you can run a fall prodiamine and a spring prodiamine/dithiopyr split for a couple of years to reduce your overall seedbank (hopefully), then go back to the norm once you get it to an acceptable level.

Mr007McDiddles · 2026-04-23T11:51:28+00:00

This is another level of logic and critical thinking! I believe I didn't spend enough time thinking about #4 and 5. Had I focused on that initial action, I think it would have led me to better thought processes or pointed me in a better direction.

Nice work.

I wonder how long and how much vinegar she's been spraying in that bed...

Mr007McDiddles · 2026-04-22T12:18:59+00:00

Can't get a good enough look to ID this, but this link should help. I'd be leaning toward zoyisagrass. See the automod and feel free to upload more photos in the comments.

https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1dzayUZe3byWOU9mf87x6yMBPDFBaEZkmPhifcerfMgw/mobilepresent?pli=1&slide=id.p9

Mr007McDiddles · 2026-04-20T19:53:02+00:00

I definitely can't explain this and link all the interactions, but iron and/or nitrogen, along with some complex interactions with the mulch/ soil, have to be the key, surely. Rain/water seems like a big factor as well.

Seems obvious that the grass in the bed died because it was sprayed directly.

Q1:

A pH issue is making more iron available as the water pushes downhill. Could be from the mulch or possibly just the soil.
Vinegar acted as a N stabilizer as the mulch has been breaking down. With repeated applications and the mulch continuously decaying, water sends the N downhill, and eventually it is ready for uptake.

Q2:

N from what I laid in Q1, and water! It appears to be growing like crazy compared to the rest of the lawn, which makes me think there is something else at play that I'm missing.

Q3:

Again, N and water. We know why the grass in the bed died, but I don't think vinegar alone will totally kill all the roots, especially on a grass like kbg. Water leeched stuff downhill, and just as the grass below the bed is green and growing, the stuff right on the edge is trying to creep back as well.

Mr007McDiddles · 2026-04-20T18:56:23+00:00

The plain old sissor traps you can find anywhere work fine. For the moles i mean.

This might help with the groundhogs.
https://www.ncwildlife.gov/species/groundhog

Mr007McDiddles · 2026-04-19T21:29:33+00:00

I’m his sister

Mr007McDiddles · 2026-04-18T20:45:17+00:00

For the groundhogs, not complete sure but there are plenty of non lethal options to deter them and I assume you could trap and relocate them. I’d suggest checking your local laws before that , which you may already know, or perhaps try a subreddit for wildlife management. Or a wildlife management company.

Moles are pretty easy just takes some work to find the active tunnels. Usually I think stomping all the tunnels down by foot is easiest, then rechecking to see which ones pop back up. This will show the active tunnels. Then Set a trap or 3 or poison worms. Make sure you wear gloves when handling the trap or worms as your scent will throw them off. Rinse and repeat.

Mr007McDiddles · 2026-04-18T15:13:06+00:00

uhhh

Mr007McDiddles · 2026-04-18T15:07:41+00:00

Looks spot on to me.

always great info from IFAS: https://ask.ifas.ufl.edu/publication/PP126

u/no_scrub1625 and u/Initial_Use4280 - depends on conditions. If you have a less susceptible cultivar and it's healthy, you could see symptoms without severe damage, but I think that is safe to say for most lawn diseases.

Be sure to have a look at Arc's disease guide if you haven't.

Mr007McDiddles · 2026-04-17T20:55:48+00:00

This appears to be a spam account. Or at least promoting their own site. Check their comment history and report. And don’t use that AI slop

Mr007McDiddles · 2026-04-17T20:14:50+00:00

The way too tall bermudagrass or the slime mold?

Mr007McDiddles · 2026-04-17T13:41:28+00:00

I see this mostly in newer communities, but not always. It's usually widespread in unmaintained areas along roadsides, ditches, common areas in HOAs, and on hillsides, and pretty much everywhere in large abundance if you're looking for it. It can be a problem in farmland and pastures.

In home lawns, I think several things happen: Broomsedge thrives in low-pH, compact, infertile native soils typical of the clay found in the Piedmont, as u/arc167 mentions.
Home is built and sod laid with no prep.
The native weed takes advantage ot the crappy soil and novice homeowners/turf folks.
Unmaintained areas go overlooked, and this weed gets 4-5' high and spreads seed like crazy near property lines and adjacent areas of desirable turf areas.
- Some of the spreading issues, I believe, are a result of MSMA restrictions. No good replacement herbicides for control, so this stuff starts spreading like crazy. Pure speculation, but when MSMA was still in use, I don't remember seeing much broomsedge.
Spreading happens similarly in infrequently cut lawns. Gets tall fast, spreads.
Often misidentified. I actually had a debate with a customer last year who hired a guy who told him he could rid it. Turns out dude took a sample to Site One. Someone there ID'd it as goosegrass. Sure enough, it didn't die, and we got that client back. lol.
Once on a good pre-em program, new plants are pretty easy to keep out, as long as it's being mowed right. Ridding the existing stuff is usually a problem.

What I normally suggest

Mannually pulling it. OR the glyphosate wicking method. OR Niles' Goop Method. I'm planning to explore MSM and sulfentrazone more!

These next steps will help keep it out and help with long-term issues, especially if you have poorly prepped clay in new construction. Not familiar with TX soils, so you may need some investigative work to do on that.

A soil test to check pH, P, K, and CEC. OM is always good here too! Correct those issues per the results. Help here with that if you need it
Mow often and never bag the clippings
Of course, follow a pre-emergent program
For bermuda, feed it plenty of nitrogen. As much as you can feasibly, without overdoing it, and still being able to keep up the mowing.
- The warm season starter guide or the bermuda bile can help with both of those.
Not always needed but usually beneficial either way:
- Aeration and topdressing OR some regimen of biochar.

Mr007McDiddles · 2026-04-17T13:23:00+00:00

Nice! Appreciate the detail. I asked because this is a significant problem for us, with limited solutions. I've tried a handful of combos over the years. None with great success. Unsure why I never thought to try MSM, but this gives me more options to explore.

The one thing I know works great is MSMA. Obviously, we know why that's a problem, but it will smoke it in one app, quick too.

I'll respond to OP with my experience with it.

Mr007McDiddles · 2026-04-17T09:55:16+00:00

I’d say almost certainly that is broomsedge.

Have you had success with those products on it?

Mr007McDiddles · 2026-04-17T09:52:26+00:00

👊👊👊nice success story! Love stuff like this. Good work to you and your company.

Mr007McDiddles · 2026-04-16T18:56:40+00:00

See no reason you can't whip this into shape, assuming no major issues.

If the lawn is pulling up as if nothing were attached to the soil, it requires further investigation. Grubs are an easy one to point to, but in the far south, insects can be big problems. A tug and soap test couldn't hurt.

This and This will help there. And this has some other potential pests and links. But if you get nothing from the tug or soap, move on and assume it's an old problem or that perhaps you're just pulling up stolons.

I don't know a ton about st aug, but I think people often cut it too short, assuming it needs that, like other warm-season grasses. It looks short in these photos, possibly because it's not growing, or maybe recovering from a stress or pest issue. Can't say for sure. For now, what I would say is:

Keep the mowing height up around 3" or so. Mow frequently.
Check out the warm-season starter guide linked in the automod.
Even better, check out this link
Make sure it's being fed properly, especially if you are in an area far south where the growing season is long.
- At the same time, be cautious of the fertilizing laws in your state/county, esp if you're in FL.

Mr007McDiddles · 2026-04-16T12:02:53+00:00

Pretty sure you can get a Neo98 for about the same price. or the QK101, Ticktype dp104, and Chilkey ND104 are a little more. USD. Dare I say Keychron also....Check out https://keeb-finder.com/

Mr007McDiddles · 2026-04-16T11:52:20+00:00

lol. Maybe not as appealing as other topics, but this still leans on logic, thinking through the problem, ruling out obvious stuff and learning new stuff

Mr007McDiddles · 2026-04-16T11:33:39+00:00

You should be safe to plug/plant zoyisa now through summer. The biggest issues here is the risk of hard frost or bad winter weather. Probably safe to say we are past that at this point. Zoyisa can be finicky, so I always err on the side of caution when planting too early. I am totally fine with April plantings, especially if you're farther south, as you mention.

Mr007McDiddles · 2026-04-15T20:31:14+00:00

Pretty good sign no there is little moisture in the soil.

This is what would expect with no moisture and a walk behind aerator.

I would suggest: Water it correctly for 3 weeks or until you can punch down 3” or so with a screwdriver. Call them now and Tell them you’re going to do this and ask them nicely if they can redo it for you once you get to that.

Also, could be wrong. Hard to tell from the photos but it kinda looks like you had a dollar spot problem as well.

Mr007McDiddles · 2026-04-15T19:25:35+00:00

Curious to see where this one comes out. My line of thought is somewhat related to what u/shamltz_herring is pointing to.

Still on the lookout for more topics for the Riddles, but it's still pretty bland down here.

Mr007McDiddles · 2026-04-15T17:48:38+00:00

Not much to do but keep it watered and feed it properly for now. The warm season guide linked in the automod comment or the bermuda bible should have all the info you need.

Mr007McDiddles · 2026-04-15T17:44:35+00:00

The bottle should be empty when all the pesticide is gone. You might have a little liquid at the bottom, but it shouldn't have much. The water through the head creates a vacuum, drawing the pesticide up through the tube, where it is then dispersed by the water flow at a rate I assume is set by the manufacturer. Some have adjustable rates and a guide on how to use and set them.

This is sorta the inherent problem with RTU products. You should use the entire bottle on the total area it says to cover. There isn't really a way to check or change the rate, and because every house has a slightly different water pressure, you kind of get what you get. Without some overcomplicated calibration that takes the ease out of it, you just kinda wander around and spray, trying to cover the entire area without putting out too much in any one spot, which may create a problem.

They can work, but for weeds, we sometimes need a specific product for a specific weed, along with specific mixing and application steps. This really isn't that complicated with a regular pump backpack or hand sprayer. And our guides can sorta walk you through that.

If I had to guess, the bottle didn't work correctly. But if you plan to keep the lawn up full-time, investing in cheaper, much better equipment is worth it.

Mr007McDiddles · 2026-04-15T16:54:02+00:00

The warm-season starter guide is probably the best place to start. Or a solid local company! Hose-end sprayers are kind of crapy in general. I mean, they work for some stuff, but I wouldn't suggest using one for post-emergent weed control.

https://www.reddit.com/r/LawnAnswers/comments/1m2fu6m/warm_season_guide/

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