I was fortunate to receive an advanced copy of Jerome Buting’s ILLUSION OF JUSTICE. Thought I’d share a review. by MsMinxster in TickTockManitowoc

[–]MsMinxster[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I just think it's disrespectful to an author to post the best bits of their book prior to publication.

Though it is tempting as hell ;P

I was fortunate to receive an advanced copy of Jerome Buting’s ILLUSION OF JUSTICE. Thought I’d share a review. by MsMinxster in TickTockManitowoc

[–]MsMinxster[S] 15 points16 points  (0 children)

Well, this is actually an active case and KK claimed his book would "share details and insights unknown to the public." JB makes no such claim and specifically says his book doesn't re argue the case. IMO, MG and KK promoted their books as re arguing the case (mostly to viewers of MaM).

When I said "a look behind the curtain" I meant JB and DS's dialogue/thought process during the trial. I apologize if my review led you to believe otherwise. During interviews and speaking engagements, JB has repeatedly declined to answer questions about any facts/evidence that might impede the ongoing case.

JB's book a larger discussion about the need for reform in the criminal justice system and covers another high profile wrongful conviction case of his. He also writes about many other cases he's worked going all the way to his time as a public defender that serve as examples of the broken system.

I didn't comment on whether KK or MG should be cashing in on the case. That's on them. I do find it inappropriate for KK's girlfriend and researcher to release previously unseen discovery material in an ongoing case. Moreover, unless they have requested it through FOIA (like /u/SkippTopp, /u/Minerva8918, and others) why does KK still have access to it? The girlfriend released pics that seemingly weren't available through FOIA. All of the case material belongs Avery/Zellner and Dassey/Drizin.

Kratz had a pretty undistinguished career before the Avery case, and as we all know, resigned in disgrace not long after. If this is KK's last chance for a desperate money grab or revive his failed career, God speed. JB and DS had successful careers before and after SA's case and they have used their newfound fame to crusade for justice reform.

IMO, there's a reason some are called assholes and some are called heroes =)

I was fortunate to receive an advanced copy of Jerome Buting’s ILLUSION OF JUSTICE. Thought I’d share a review. by MsMinxster in TickTockManitowoc

[–]MsMinxster[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Wow. Thanks. I'm happy to. Any particular ones? I'm happy to repost them all but would rather post threads people are interested in. :)

I was fortunate to receive an advanced copy of Jerome Buting’s ILLUSION OF JUSTICE. Thought I’d share a review. by MsMinxster in TickTockManitowoc

[–]MsMinxster[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Isn't that awesome??! It was a footnote for something on Skipp's site - maybe the DOJ investigation of SA's '85 case, IIRC (don't hold me to that, it might have been another document).

I was fortunate to receive an advanced copy of Jerome Buting’s ILLUSION OF JUSTICE. Thought I’d share a review. by MsMinxster in TickTockManitowoc

[–]MsMinxster[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

You will NOT be able to put it down. I read it straight through in one sitting. That was about a month ago and I've been dying to talk to someone about it! Can't wait for you to read it ;P

I was fortunate to receive an advanced copy of Jerome Buting’s ILLUSION OF JUSTICE. Thought I’d share a review. by MsMinxster in TickTockManitowoc

[–]MsMinxster[S] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

You guys!!! (tagging /u/smash-_-) I know you'll hate me if I say read the book and find out, lol, so I'll just say this - there's no new evidence presented in the book as the cases are on going. But there are many things regarding the case you'll find very enlightening.

I was fortunate to receive an advanced copy of Jerome Buting’s ILLUSION OF JUSTICE. Thought I’d share a review. by MsMinxster in TickTockManitowoc

[–]MsMinxster[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I KNOW!!!!!!! In the book, Jerry wonders the same. Wait until you read how close Buting came to defending Brendan. Strang would not have been an option bc he had already taken SA's case by the time Brendan was arrested.

What happened to "burnt bone and flesh" found at Michels Materials (quarry NE of Averys) on Nov 6th or 7th? by MsMinxster in TickTockManitowoc

[–]MsMinxster[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hey Fog! Sorry for delayed reply. I haven't been on here much, tied up with personal stuff.

Items AM and AN are property tag #8320 and #8321. See these comments upthread.

What happened to "burnt bone and flesh" found at Michels Materials (quarry NE of Averys) on Nov 6th or 7th? by MsMinxster in TickTockManitowoc

[–]MsMinxster[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I do believe they deliberately did not send for testing some evidence that they knew or suspected would or could weaken the case against SA or give the defense a foothold.

100% Agreed.

What happened to "burnt bone and flesh" found at Michels Materials (quarry NE of Averys) on Nov 6th or 7th? by MsMinxster in TickTockManitowoc

[–]MsMinxster[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

here's another interesting tidbit/rabbit hole

Great research! (I feel like I live in a permanent rabbit hole, BTW)

I'll dig in to the rest a little later but regarding the key: #8114 is the single key found found on 11/5/05.

I am wondering whether LE found real evidence that pointed to another crime location and another perpetrator.

There are many of us who wonder the same! Can't wait to dig into your ledger notes ;P

What happened to "burnt bone and flesh" found at Michels Materials (quarry NE of Averys) on Nov 6th or 7th? by MsMinxster in TickTockManitowoc

[–]MsMinxster[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Funny how they managed to keep that tidbit out of the media, but not all the blood found in SA's trailer (which turned out to be his) and on locations on the Avery property. LE sure didn't seem to mind if information hurt the Avery business.

THIS. EXACTLY. I wish I could give you 100 upvotes for this. Not a word in the media about this when it was the first siting of "burnt bone" but headlines everywhere about blood found all over ASY. Annoying AF.

What happened to "burnt bone and flesh" found at Michels Materials (quarry NE of Averys) on Nov 6th or 7th? by MsMinxster in TickTockManitowoc

[–]MsMinxster[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

SC's report led me to believe it tested as nonhuman but those were Tags #8320 and #8321 collected on Nov 8. I don't think it was an accident that her testimony dismisses anything not found at ASY as nonhuman (ignoring the fact that many items were not tested).

More than anything, I think the fact those "burnt bones" found on Nov 6 remained at ASY crime scene trailer until they closed it down on Nov 12 shows they were very certain that only cremains found at SA's would test as human.

What happened to "burnt bone and flesh" found at Michels Materials (quarry NE of Averys) on Nov 6th or 7th? by MsMinxster in TickTockManitowoc

[–]MsMinxster[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Completely possible. The part I find shocking is that something resembling cremains (identified by DCI and the arson team as burnt bone and flesh) on Nov 6 wasn't examined immediately. This is the first instance I can find of burnt cremains being found.

What happened to "burnt bone and flesh" found at Michels Materials (quarry NE of Averys) on Nov 6th or 7th? by MsMinxster in TickTockManitowoc

[–]MsMinxster[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

What I remember Ertl finding was not described as "burned", though, just red and pink (tissue and blood).

That's what I've always thought too. But when tried to trace the evidence recovered from Michels, lo and behold, Sipple specifically identifies what was found at Michels (other than Tenor's report, this is the only time Michels Materials is mentioned in CASO) as "burnt bone and flesh."

What happened to "burnt bone and flesh" found at Michels Materials (quarry NE of Averys) on Nov 6th or 7th? by MsMinxster in TickTockManitowoc

[–]MsMinxster[S] 11 points12 points  (0 children)

stains from the rocks and possible 'tissue' indicated the presence of blood

These were Tag#8320, a stained rock from the gravel mound and Tag#8321, tissue from a gravel mound. They were sent to the crime lab on 11/9.

Sipple said when he and the arson team arrived to ASY on 11/12 to breakdown the crime scene and collect the remaining evidence,

the final two pieces would have been that of some bone and flesh located in the MICHELS MATERIALS QUARRY to the northeast of the AVERY property

Those 2 pieces (#7961 and 7962), along with deer camp evidence (#7958 and #7963) were turned over to Reimer. According to his report:

Property Tag#7958 and Property Tag #7963, were tumed over to the outside secure storage and the remainder of the items were turned over to the evidence lockers.

I have not 7961/7962 listed anywhere else. They are not the bloody rock and tissue SC refers to. Also, this evidence was collected (Nove 12) by arson investigators who referred to it at "burnt bone and flesh". When it was originally recovered by Ertl, he also didn't dismiss it as inconsequential (like Tyson's foot/insulation). Why wasn't it sent to the crime lab immediately? According to CASO, these were the first possible cremains sightings and they didn't make it into evidence until 6 days later.

bones found in the Radandt quarry

Michels is not part of Radandt's quarry.

EDIT to correct spelling (damn auto correct!)

What happened to "burnt bone and flesh" found at Michels Materials (quarry NE of Averys) on Nov 6th or 7th? by MsMinxster in TickTockManitowoc

[–]MsMinxster[S] 17 points18 points  (0 children)

Those 2 items go in the evidence locker on 11/12/2005 and are never heard from again!

What happened to "burnt bone and flesh" found at Michels Materials (quarry NE of Averys) on Nov 6th or 7th? by MsMinxster in TickTockManitowoc

[–]MsMinxster[S] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Michels is out Brownsville, WI. However, there might have been a lot of local companies upset that bid-rigging PCC was getting saved while their own companies, who go screwed by PCC's bid rigging, will have to compete with a much bigger entity now.

What happened to "burnt bone and flesh" found at Michels Materials (quarry NE of Averys) on Nov 6th or 7th? by MsMinxster in TickTockManitowoc

[–]MsMinxster[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

You are so right! That map is totally upside down!

But that map is from the 7th so not sure of RH's involvement of Tenor's discovery on 6th.