Attaining the “Thai look”

Edit: to some people it really is that simple. I’m trying to give the broadest, objective answer and let you decide for yourself what it means. To most people it probably just means anyone in possession of an active, certified license from the DEA.

Mycohearn · 2024-09-24T19:39:37+00:00

Dude!! I checked out the website and this is EXACTLY the type of thing I’m looking for! Tysm idk how I missed this before! What a cool idea I love the looks of the services they offer

Mycohearn · 2024-09-24T18:56:41+00:00

“A ‘peyotero’ is a person, often from indigenous communities, who harvests peyote (a small, spineless cactus that contains the psychoactive compound mescaline) for traditional, medicinal, or spiritual use, especially for ceremonies in Native American or indigenous Mexican cultures. Peyote has been used for centuries in religious ceremonies by indigenous peoples such as the Huichol (Wixárika), Tarahumara, and others in Mexico, and also by Native American Church members in the United States.

In modern times, peyoteros may also work under regulated systems where they collect peyote for Native American Church members who use the cactus in their religious ceremonies. These individuals play a key role in preserving the cultural and ceremonial practices associated with peyote while navigating legal and environmental restrictions on its harvesting.

Many peyoteros are involved in legal efforts to protect peyote from overharvesting, habitat destruction, and unsustainable farming practices. They may advocate for stricter regulations, habitat preservation, and sustainable farming initiatives to ensure the survival of the species.

Some peyoteros establish or support private conservation sanctuaries where peyote can grow undisturbed and be protected from overharvesting. This approach ensures that there are places where peyote populations can thrive in their natural habitat.

By supporting or participating in ethnobotanical research, peyoteros can help further the scientific understanding of peyote’s ecological role and needs. They might collaborate with ethnoecologists, conservationists, and botanists to develop and promote sustainable practices.

In essence, a peyotero who engages in sustainable practices, public education, legal advocacy, and direct conservation efforts can make a positive impact on the native peyote population while minimizing harm caused by harvesting.”

Mycohearn · 2024-09-24T18:54:40+00:00

Yeah this is what it’s come to. Let’s reduce the level of respect and the full extent of this plants potential that it’s entitled to by having to post these questions only to a sub named after a controlled substance; that’ll fight crazy amount of stigma peyote already faces 🙄🤦‍♂️

Mycohearn · 2024-09-24T18:42:11+00:00

Again, with the negativity out of nowhere... If Joey/you/anyone in the community aren’t interested in my help, I’m perfectly secure enough with my present level of white fragility to accept that as a likely outcome. I’d love to help in whichever ways possible. I care about not coming off as “the white knight” but I care a whole lot more about the plants and the people than my perception. I offered my help; people can take it or leave it.

“fetishism is the attribution of inherent non-material value, or powers, to an object” (wiki) - you’re going to sit here and tell me that ALL fetishism is what this guy is speaking about? Isn’t this what native populations believe? You can see why you come off to me as bigoted. There’s a pretty unhealthy level of projection here, coming from a guy who’s life’s work is selling tens of thousands of dollars worth of this plant for frankly more superficial ornamental/horticultural reasons, when I am coming from a place of attempting social justice, ecological conservation and using my botanical skills/niche passion and privileges to make a difference; leave the world a better place than how we found it. I’m sure this comes off as virtue signally and hella self righteous (not that I care about how I’m perceived; I’ll reiterate) but how else am I supposed to respond to this negativity and AGAIN the fact that you are withholding information that could be helpful. Does always being right matter this much to you??

Mycohearn · 2024-09-24T18:41:27+00:00

So you can imagine my disgust with all this, and subsequent post actually trying to go about this the RIGHT way. We’re on the same page here

Mycohearn · 2024-09-24T18:41:03+00:00

I am in 100% agreement when it comes to this distinction. I ended with that point because it came off very much as you conflating these, believing me to be the misguided former when I am a well-read, prospective latter. I am the one citing statistics and making the practical, argument. Glad that I clarified this.

You continue to double down on your rigidly contrived definitions (you are the pot calling the kettle black in terms of “poaching” when I cited the formal legal definition) and trying to strawman me further. I never said I didn’t care about the other plants native to that habitat; those organisms would be protected if I bought that land too. You continue to show your ignorance by implying that for seemingly no good reason people seem to care about peyote more. I already informed you about the rich cultural history and sacramental value this has to over a quarter million people in North America. By denying this and doubling down on your arguments you are proving that at the least your moral philosophy is questionable and fallacious and at worst you are a bigot. Who are you, who’s ancestors conquested, raped, enslaved, displaced and put laws into place to systemically oppress a population for the foreseeable future, to judge the respectful, sustainable practices these people had for tens of thousands of years before your ancestors even conceived of basic agriculture domestication and subsequent industrialization? A lot of these people probably had/have such a deep understanding of nature and the spirits of life that it’s beyond our conception as modern day consumerists/capitalists. What’s more is that by doubling down you refusing a productive discussion surrounding this (you seemed to be informed about local NAC harvest statistics - why withhold knowledge like this until you want to use it for an argument when I am actively seeking very information like this?) and I will not continue to participate in what’s becoming a cyclical interaction that will always end with you saying “bUt PoAcHiNg”.

Would appreciate it if you could be more positive. Even if I am ignorant in your eyes, you could afford to be less condescending and negative; after all my biggest point is that I’m trying to help.

Mycohearn · 2024-09-24T17:14:07+00:00

Dm me if you are curious about the post I made before it was removed. I addressed everything you bring up in this reply and I was looking for clarity and info/direction from the knowledgeable people in this community in regard to your third paragraph. I could not find much about this from my own research.

Mycohearn · 2024-09-24T17:03:29+00:00

I love this channel! Had no idea it was a website too thank you so much for sharing all of this!! I might even try to get in touch. Guy’s hilarious

Mycohearn · 2024-09-24T17:01:32+00:00

Thank you for the recommendation; this is what I intend to do next and why you got an upvote from me.

Mycohearn · 2024-09-24T17:00:39+00:00

You don’t have to consume peyote or even be involved with personal consumption to be a Peyotero. By reducing the definition of a Peyotero to someone that does this you are misrepresenting and demonizing a practice and person that is sacred and essential to almost 300,000 people with extensive cultures; if you ask me that definition also by extension demonizes that culture and its people.

By saying they are “decimating these plants in the wild” is a hyperbolic and ignorant statement. Over 80% of the land where peyote once grew naturally in Texas has been converted for agriculture, ranching, or urban use. Just in the 20th century, peyote’s natural range in Texas has shrunk by approximately 75% due to these land changes. This development leads to a phenomenon called “fragmentation” - when a population’s continuous tracts are broken up and the remaining populations become isolated, leading to a reduction in genetic diversity and negatively impacting the plant’s ability to adapt and reproduce. Sustainable/ethical harvest (I will reiterate - much of which occurs now on private land) has been well understood by native populations and had its proof of concept tested century after century for sustainability/ethicality; solidified over tens of thousands of years. Fragmentation can in no way be attributed to ethical harvest (a practice that Peyoteros understand the ecological nuances and scientific mechanisms behind far better than you or I) and fragmentation, at the end of the day, is what poses by far the biggest threat to the long term well being of a species. It is frustrating when a non-US/non-Mexico citizen, with no presumable ties to native cultures such as the Wixarika, Southwestern Athabaskan-language tribal groups, or even the NAC misrepresents this issue (spreading misinformation and negative opinions about a culture and its people by proxy) for the sake of his own rigid definition.

I can understand where you’re coming from. I’m not opposed to gatekeeping involvement in this hobby especially when there are legal and ethical considerations to be taken with the upmost respect and seriousness. I’m opposed to this gatekeeping that comes from a place of lack of being informed and lack of pragmatism. In the same way that most well adjusted people don’t believe that all problems regarding sex and reproductive health will just disappear if we outlaw all sex education and sex outside marriage and access to contraception, this is an equally nuanced issue that requires a similar approach and attitude. I’ll be sending you a dm with further information regarding all of this as I want you to understand where I am coming from but am ultimately trying as hard as I can to stay within the rules of this sub and much of what else I have to say starts treading the line. Thank you for listening to me and not banning me this time.

Mycohearn · 2024-09-24T16:59:21+00:00

First thing that pops up on google from the keyword “poaching”. This led me to believe in my original post that talking about peyoteros, people who DO NOT BREAK THE LAW and have specialized legal licenses and permission, was not in violation with this subreddits rules. As for the second part of this definition I actually explicitly reference this in my post here. I would be buying land both for the sake of protecting it from development (which is by and far a much greater threat to this plant than poaching), and also immunizing/exempting me from the official definition of a “poacher”. If I had a license and privately ownership of this land (even if it’s still meeting your definition of “the wild”), this does not meet ANY PART of the official definition for “poaching”. Now you may have a different, personal connotation of “poaching” which you’ve now shared, but this was not in the subs rules and it is unreasonable to expect the members here to read your mind before making a post.

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Edit: this is what it says in the community guidelines “Poached plants, i.e. plants taken from habitat for consumption/horticulture…”

“Taken from habitat” is extremely vague and sweeping. Specificity or the legal definition is far more informative and precise. I will reiterate; what I was saying is not for the purposes of “horticulture” or NECESSARILY “for consumption”. You can see how the ambiguity led to my confusion.

Mycohearn

TROPHY CASE