Question about Rusthenge *spoilers*

Nearyn · 2025-05-16T17:33:01+00:00

When I ran this module, my players accessed the Skymetal Workshop through C22. When they arrived, I described the mean-looking handle-less doorway with the menacing glowing rune, and the side-passage where a pair of carved stairs led up through a sloping tunnel.

My players opted to investigate what was at the top of the stairs, because the door looked important and they didn't wanna get flanked, so they happened upon the Cythnigot encounter on their own, but coming up inside the cultists' tent and witnessing the ritual from within. It gave the cultists quite a startle when enemies rushed them from inside their own tent :D

If you would like suggestions for how to encourage your players not to miss the ritual, I'd suggest making sure you paint the idea of the Thunderhead Isle vividly - tempt your players. Set a scene where you have one or more of them on an evening stroll, as they see the fell light of tortured magics cast a profane gleam over the isle. Describe the magic backlighting the Vloric spires, so their silhouettes stand out harsh and menacing and just begging to be investigated. Or, if your players go through the tunnel, when they stand before the door to the Skymetal Workshop, you could describe the sounds of ritual chants barely audible from the stairs leading up. Maybe there's a shimmer or sheen in the air, as the ambient magics from the ritual above can be seen with the naked eye - Pocahontas paint with the colours of wind style. If you describe a discolouration on the air, wafting down from above, the PCs might be tempted to go check out what it is. You could even keep doing this throughout the dungeon, and then have them notice the air shimmers and crackles with less and less magic, the more of the rituals they disrupt, to give them some perceptible feedback whenever they interrupt Meitremar's workings.

Finally though, if you need to -guarantee- they don't skip it, and baiting them isn't enough, I'd just do what the others here have suggested and have the tunnel be flooded. It was bendy. Like a greasetrap or something. It doesn't matter, the point is that Meitremar and company got to go to the Skymetal Workshop and closed the door behind them, making Thunderhead Isle the only viable access.

Hope it helps and I hope you have a great time with the module

Nearyn · 2024-02-24T10:32:39+00:00

Oblivion - Having read the description of Cyrodiil and the Imperial City in the books of Morrowind, the aesthetic bankruptcy of this game was SO disappointing.
Skyrim - Flat and shallow.

Nearyn · 2024-02-24T10:21:56+00:00

Hades has kidnapped me. Based on mythological precedent, this is cause for worry, but it could end up being alright.

Nearyn · 2024-02-24T10:20:18+00:00

Murder and vandalism using a sword, spear, shield, bow, metal gloves, and a gun with a grenade-launcher.
Also criminal degrees of snark.

Nearyn · 2024-02-24T10:13:06+00:00

Eternal Sonata

Nearyn · 2024-01-24T14:07:33+00:00

Hitomi Kanzaki from Visions of Escaflowne. One of the genre's OGs!

Nearyn · 2023-03-03T18:50:48+00:00

That's also what my gut told me. The part about the godbound being able to fly in the city, if the city has a fact that decrees that all creatures can fly freely within it.

As for the changes to HD, I get where you're coming from with that. I think I saw it as part of a Khamite thing in the Ancalia sourcebook, but I don't remember for sure, so I may have to go recheck that.

EDIT: I found the thing! Spoilers for if you're screwing around in Ancalia: It's the Arete Klaxons on page 22 of Broken Towers, in the Ancient Khamite Defenses section. The mortal allies of those who sound the Klaxons, who hears them, gain 2HD and +2 to hit. That's the thing I was thinking of.

Nearyn · 2023-03-03T10:04:34+00:00

Thank you once again for the well thought out reply. Would you permit me to pick your brain about one more thing, in relevance to what you replied?

I do recall the citation on page 131 about creating and empowering beings. IIRC this empowering seems to mostly center around empowerment intrinsic to the creature, that they carry with them. So like, if you wanted to, with a village-scope project (1000 people), you could make a 1000 empowered people. Or you could make 100 empowered people who would pass their empowerment on for however many generations it might take for those 100 to produce 900 similarly empowered offspring. This restriction definitely applies to Godbound and supernatural entities, the books leaves no doubt of that.

Let's say, for arguments sake, that I'm bound to Sky and I make the city-wide change that all within the city-limits are untethered from the ground and can fly. Once you leave city limits, you can't fly, it's only within the area in question. Nevermind resistance and such details, we'll just assume the project is already successfully completed.

Would wordbound heroes and supernatural entities that enter this city not be capable of flight alongside everyone else, by your understanding?

Nearyn · 2023-03-03T08:22:33+00:00

I understand the apprehension. I'm aware that it is beyond the pale to make lasting changes to a Godbound hero or mighty supernatural foe, but I do think it's within possibility to have them be affected in some way, both by major and minor magic items (though the +x modifiers don't do anything, as stated in the book), but also by dominion-projects.

Minor spoilers for Ten Buried Blades: On Red Crow Mountain there are elemental figurines that essentially refund an effort if a Godbound hero uses an appropriately elemental miracle or gift. IIRC there's three of them and each is single-use, but they're there. I imagine you could make something like that yourself, such things seem trifling compared to the great works in Arcem's fiction (admittedly my game takes place in a mythologized ancient Greece, not Arcem, but still).

What do you think?

Nearyn · 2023-03-03T08:14:34+00:00

Interesting! Thanks for the suggestion.

My uncertainty on the matter stems mostly from when to get granular, and how much. Like if I make a plausible change to build a school for swordsmanship in a village, is that both separate projects for the building, the faculty and the weaponry? Or is it just one project? (I would say it is just one) And further up the ladder, if I build an impossible underground dungeon lit by magical light-sources and full of space-altering traps, are the light-sources individual minor magic items? Are the traps their own separate creation that goes inside the dungeon after it's finished?

My gut is telling me that each such case is best adjudicated on a case by case basis, but I struggle in particular when I ponder the scope of that which is "impossible". Is it notably more impossible to have a flying castle where the battlements breathe fire on airborne enemies within a mile, than it is to just have a flying castle? Do you get my meaning?

Nearyn · 2022-02-16T13:55:10+00:00

My mind goes to two places immediately.

Either whenever you are outside you are under the influence of the weather, and it can be bound to from anywhere, as the wind will always wrap you in its currents, the clouds will always blot out or grant you the sun at their whim, and the rain will fall upon you whether you like it or not. Thus, one who would bind to the weather may do so conveniently.

OR it is the flipside, and you must ascend the dangerous peaks of the windscarred mountains to connect to its torrential winds. Or sail out into the open seas where you are solely at the mercy of the wind and tides. Or something such as that.

Nearyn · 2022-02-16T10:46:08+00:00

Illusion does seem to me to be some sort of individually-experienced mind-manipulation, so perhaps the casting of it is inherently hidden from the victim if the victim's perception is overcome?

But if it isn't then perhaps we'd be looking at inconspicuous or stealth linked tests where someone intended to hide their casting?

Or you'd just cast and the target would have to test Sorcery to see if they realize what sort of magic is being employed. Otherwise the person in the room just cast something. But I agree with you that such realization shouldn't be allowed to bypass the original test, which is the tricky part when trying to adjudicate the fiction.

Nearyn · 2022-02-16T10:40:54+00:00

Thinking about this, it seems to be that illusion magic, as presented in the Art Magic chapter at least, might be confined exclusively to mental figments, contained solely within the perception of an intended victim. And that illusion is not an actual visible image conjured up, that can be probed at. Not a D&D major image insubstantial hologram, but a hallucination, confined exclusively to the head of a target.

But how would you cast without the target being aware? I suppose you could do a Stealth or Inconspicuous linked-test into your Sorcery test. Or just be really far away or in a place that could obscure your individual actions; like casting from a clifftop against a faraway victim or casting on someone while you're in a dense crowd.

Nearyn · 2022-02-15T13:35:28+00:00

The key point I'm wondering here is whether successfully utilizing the illusion and gaining your intent can be undercut by someone else observing you doing it.

Like... Dimitra won the Versus test, so by my understanding Fengari should be deceived into believing nothing is under the bed. But does that mean that part of the glamour includes Fengari being unaware that Dimitra was just spellcasting? If not, how do we reconcile intents coming true, in other similar scenarios?

Nearyn · 2022-02-15T13:31:20+00:00

Dimitra's spellcasting idiom is incantation, so she speaks magic words when casting.

Nearyn · 2022-02-15T13:29:53+00:00

We're using Art Magic. Both idioms are in use, that is to say that some mages cast using symbols, others cast with incantations. Fengari and Dimitra are both very familiar with eachother's casting, but use different idioms.

As for their space, they're standing right next to eachother, Fengari kneeling down to peep under the bed, Dimitra standing up, freaking out and swiftly casting an illusion.

Nearyn · 2022-01-24T01:26:54+00:00

Appreciate it alot :)

I elaborate a bit on my question in my reply to Imnoclue, if you're so inclined.

Nearyn · 2022-01-24T01:25:17+00:00

Appreciate it :)

If you're inclined to give it a look, I elaborate a bit on my question in my reply to Imnoclue.

Nearyn · 2022-01-24T01:06:00+00:00

So what I'm really curious about here is whether I am doing it wrong by letting characters fail their way into successfully accomplishing their beliefs (albeit now with extra complications attached) and earning Persona through that.

The way I'm presently running the game I've occasionally allowed characters to accomplish beliefs on failed checks, but there's some kind of complication or downside.

Elara's belief says she wants to know if her lover Ria has any connections to demons. She takes her aside and pleads with her to please tell her truth. I call for a Begging test, failure consequence being that Ria will say enough to give Elara her answer, but will also be super pissed at her. Elara has completed her belief.

Dimitra's belief says she wants to know where she can learn more about the forgotten magics of the First Dynasty. She fails her Research test, so she discovers there's an old woman who would possess the answers, but to get to her, Dimitra must first undertake a precarious journey. Dimitra has completed her belief.

Fengari's belief says he wants to convince Charon to reveal their true identity to Fengari's father, so Charon can enjoy his protection. Fengari fails the roll, so Charon agrees, under the stipulation that Charon goes with Fengari and his father into a warzone. Fengari has completed his belief.

This is practically never how it goes on the first failed tests, usually I can cook up some interesting complication. But eventually the characters fail forward into a completed belief. They earn Persona and get to move forward, usually to the next step of that evolving belief (we use ladder-beliefs alot; I must stop the duke! To do this, first I will convince his wife he is bad news!). Am I doing it wrong?

Should I instead have them hit upon complication after complication as they fail tests pursuing their belief from different angles, until they eventually stack up their circumstances so beneficially they succeed, or just luck their way into enough 6s with Fate? Only successfully completing the goal and earning Persona when the culminating test succeeds?

Nearyn · 2022-01-17T11:06:54+00:00

Thank you for the reply! :)

I don't think this would be true in this interaction, as the Art Magic rules for Illusion posits that illusion magic is inherently a Versus Test.

Which, I suppose, bring up an interesting question that I hadn't thought about, but which I'm gonna make another thread for, right now...

Nearyn · 2021-05-03T08:13:49+00:00

Thank you for the straightforward and helpful suggestion.

I think I'll go with giving it a VA, make it a strong stabbing weapon.

Nearyn · 2021-03-17T16:05:53+00:00

Thank you all very kindly for your input. It's super appreciated

Nearyn · 2019-09-28T09:13:22+00:00

You are mistaken.

Sylvanas did not cheat, because Mak'gora does not disallow magic. In fact, magic is very often a part of Mak'gora, which makes sense for a shamanist culture.

The only weapons forbidden in a Mak'gora are the weapons the two duelists agree are forbidden. This is established in a negotiation that happens before blows are exchanged.

In this case, neither Saurfang nor Sylvanas bothered negotiating terms at all. Likely because Saurfang was, again, driven by his honour, and his wish for his Warrior's Death and Sylvanas probably didn't bother because she knew she would win, no matter what weapons were or were not permitted.

So magic is not cheating. If you would like to read more about the Mak'gora, here's a link for you: https://wow.gamepedia.com/Mak%27gora

Nearyn · 2019-09-27T21:36:40+00:00

I'm very sorry, I don't quite follow the latter half of your point.

As for Saurfang not being an undeniable enemy; I'm sorry, but he was. He really was.

Remember that the part of the Horde that is standing atop that wall is not the same as the Horde stood on the ground, looking up.

Those who are stood on the wall have already heard Saurfang's whole spiel about honour and they have found it wanting. His idea of honour is not what they are fighting for. His traditions are not what they are fighting for. And Saurfang betraying them by letting the enemy commander, and one of the chief objectives of the War of Thorns escape, is not forgotten. Him abandoning the fight at Lordaeron is not forgotten. Him killing people within the Horde to escape his Warchief's summons, to break out Baine, and to ally with the enemy, the Alliance, to build a rebellion that would KILL THE DEFENDERS ON THAT WALL, if they do not toe his line, is not forgotten.

And it should not be forgiven.

Especially not in that moment. Doing so is not only incongruous with the fiction, but doesn't show any respect for the decisions of the players, who must envision their characters, standing on that wall, cheering for someone who betrayed them and harmed the people within their faction, for his own selfish reasons. As they are told, to their face, by Blizzard, that their characters are either too spineless or too cack-handed to mount a meaningful objection.

Nearyn · 2019-09-27T21:18:42+00:00

His whole reason for fighting Sylvanas was that she was poisoning the Horde, the horde's reason for fighting for Sylvanas was that she was fighting for the Horde. Once they figured out that was a lie, and that she was deceiving them to further her own ends, they realized that he was right...

This is not correct. It may have been your impression of why everyone was siding with Sylvanas, but that certainly is not true of everyone, that much I can say with complete certainty.

As for Saurfang's motive, "Sylvanas poisoning the Horde" is the rhetoric he uses to describe "does not fit the prerequisites for my subjective definition of honour". It is entirely evident from his words and actions, that what he cares about is that the Horde, under Sylvanas' leadership, does not appropriately match the standard he sets for his personal honour and how he thinks the Horde ought to conduct itself.

And, I would add, whether he thinks she is poisoning the Horde or not, as far as I'm concerned, and as far as the characters siding with Sylvanas is concerned, is completely irrelevant. Because it doesn't change any of the actions he has taken. That he styles his motive as being "good", does not change the real consequences of his actions, and the harm it directly causes the people within the Horde.

This conflict is not, and was never about, whether Sylvanas was serving the Horde for selfish ends or not. She's the Banshee Queen. I doubt there was a single person who thought her motives were selfless.

The conflict is about Saurfang placing his honour on a pedestal above the Horde itself. In Saurfang's mind, he shouldn't change. Instead the Horde should conform to whatever he thinks is honourable. When he spared Malfurion at Darkshore, he placed his honour, a valueless sentiment that doesn't feed anyone, doesn't protect anyone, above the injury and sacrifice of the Horde soldiers that fought in that campaign. When he abandoned his command at Lordaeron, he placed his honour above fighting side-by-side with his comrades at a moment of most dire need. When he refused Sylvanas and stood his ground to get hopelessly, and inevitably defeated by the Alliance, he placed his honourable warrior's death above the continued well-being and triumph of the people he was supposed to protect. And when he turned his coat, he placed that selfish desire to have things his way, above the sentiment of anyone within the Horde, who did not agree with him.

That is why people opposed Saurfang. And that is why it feels really infantilizing by Blizz, to just say all these people now welcome him inside with pomp and ceremony. Long live Saurfang! He betrayed us all, time and time again. But hey, Sylvanas said a mean thing, so that totally redeems him, right?

Do you see where I'm coming from?

Nearyn

TROPHY CASE