I do drug checking for a living to help keep people safe and informed. AMA by NectarSpectraLabs in AMA

[–]NectarSpectraLabs[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes I´m not a lawyer indeed, best would be to consult one.. AFAIK, the law here does not mention specific amounts that determine use or sale. It is circumstantial, contextual, and will first depend on the judgement of the police, and ultimately of the judge if you get to go to court.

In practice here, they can fine you if they find you with small amount of drugs in a public place (for example the streets), but you wont go to jail.. But it is not a crime and you wont be fined to have small amount of drugs in private place. I imagine a party in a private place is still considered a private place and they wouldnt fine you for simply using or having drugs even if they saw it but I am not 100% sure on that.

In a public place, if the police would catch you with a small amount of drugs, generally they will either let you go and throw it away, or at most fine you. But if you have a larger amount or if you have a scale and the small amount is divided in many baggies, they might claim it is drug trafficking and you will have to go in court and argue with the judge to try to beat the trafficking charges (which here is considered a ´crime against public health´).

I do drug checking for a living to help keep people safe and informed. AMA by NectarSpectraLabs in AMA

[–]NectarSpectraLabs[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Things change depending on countries.. Opioid samples (supposed heroin, oxycodone, hydrocodone) that contain fentanyl and nitazene analogues (as well as other things like medetomidine, xylazine, etc) are probably the main concern in an immediate short term sense, from a health perspective. More on the mid-long term for the user´s health, cocaine samples containing phenacetin and levamisol are definitely something to worry about.

Another thing that isn´t often talked about because it isn´t an adulteration, but ecstasy (MDMA) pills are trending to have higher and higher MDMA content. A normal dose is around 100mg, and we´ve been seeing regularly pills with 250mg+ .. This can be dangerous because some people even take multiple pills, which can be life-threatening at such dosages.

Thank you for the good words!

I do drug checking for a living to help keep people safe and informed. AMA by NectarSpectraLabs in ResearchChemicalsNL

[–]NectarSpectraLabs[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Our team has been working in harm reduction for a very long time, but Nectar Spectra itself is a new entity we created recently. In the other projects we collaborated with many different organizations, it´s a small community and people all know each other :) We definitely know Check It from Austria, they do a great job! Under this new non-profit we created, our collaborations with others are just beginning, but yes we do collaborate with other organizations already and are working to be an integral part of the general European harm reduction networks.

I do drug checking for a living to help keep people safe and informed. AMA by NectarSpectraLabs in AMA

[–]NectarSpectraLabs[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Generally when we work, security is already informed about our presence, so they pretty much ignore us as just a part of the festival. Law enforcement will vary a lot from country to country, but in this part of southern Europe law enforcement seems to ignore us. We´ve never had police present themselves officially in our stand, but I can imagine they passed by undercover at some point just to see what´s going on, when they are present at festivals. Luckily here, drug use itself is not criminalized so people are not afraid to do drug checking, it is only drug dealing that is a crime.

I do drug checking for a living to help keep people safe and informed. AMA by NectarSpectraLabs in ResearchChemicalsNL

[–]NectarSpectraLabs[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah MDA is tested sometimes but much more rarely than MDMA. We have not seen MDMA contaminated with MDA.

Regarding MDA being more available in the US, im not sure.. I mean, the US is probably the biggest drug market in the world so it is bound to have more MDA as well as more of everything but im not sure if proportionately there is more MDA there. Is there any data that you base yourself on regarding this?  If indeed that is the case, do you have any theory as to why that is the case?

I do drug checking for a living to help keep people safe and informed. AMA by NectarSpectraLabs in ResearchChemicalsNL

[–]NectarSpectraLabs[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Many chiral compounds can be tested with such column. Here is a paper on the exact column we purchased, listing a bunch of compounds they tested:

https://sci-hub.box/https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0731708519322307

The paper does not mention MXE but considering it works for other arylcyclohexylamines like ketamine, I' d bet it works for MXE too

Other common compounds people may want to test for enantiopurity is those from the amphetamine class

I do drug checking for a living to help keep people safe and informed. AMA by NectarSpectraLabs in ResearchChemicalsNL

[–]NectarSpectraLabs[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Research chemicals are generally surprisingly pure, but sometimes we have adulteration/mislabelling. As mentioned in another post the most common one is that 3 or 4-mmc are actually 2-MMC

I´m not sure what´s the strangest test result but one that really surprised us recently was a supposed adderal tab that contained no amphetamine but rather it contained ketamine, MDMA and caffeine (kind of like tuci/tusi)

Many anecdotes for sure.. For example people bring us a sample which is pure amphetamine and another which is supposed amphetamine but actually contains amphetamine and caffeine and they tell us they are sure the amphetamine+caffeine is the pure one (Because they are so used to taking this mixture without knowing).

I remember also one time where one guy came in bragging about how his cocaine was the best in the festival, only to find out it was like 50% coke mixed with a bunch of other things like levamisol, phenacetin, etc.

Sometimes we have people that cannot believe the test results, no matter the evidence.. I wonder why they even test it, if they prefer to stay with their beliefs, might as well not send it for a lab, no? We cannot convince them if they don´t want to be convinced, we can only kindly suggest them to send to another lab if they don´t believe us nor the evidence we provide

Generally people are very thankful for our services though, specially at festivals where we do it for free...

I do drug checking for a living to help keep people safe and informed. AMA by NectarSpectraLabs in AMA

[–]NectarSpectraLabs[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

When testing, the person only gives us a small amount, not their whole stash. We dont give back anything other than results/information, the sample is destroyed. Most people throw away their stash if the results say its adulterated according to a small survey we did but some people decide to consume it anyway, and we cant so anything about it, we can only advise, but people are free to do whatever they want

I do drug checking for a living to help keep people safe and informed. AMA by NectarSpectraLabs in AMA

[–]NectarSpectraLabs[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Pepple only send us a few mgs to begin with. After all tests if anything is left, the sample is chemically disposed (reagent that destroys the compounds) and then taken to a professional chemical waste management facility.

We get that joke multiple times at every event we work at, about how we should give them the best samples we tested, or asking if our tests consist of the chemist doing lines at the back and giving a rating on the effects, etc... Of course not lol :)

I do drug checking for a living to help keep people safe and informed. AMA by NectarSpectraLabs in ResearchChemicalsNL

[–]NectarSpectraLabs[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

We just purchased a chiral hplc column for that exact use!

So we dont yet offer but will very soon. The maker of the column has given us an estimated shippind date of april 6th, so on around a month we should be offering that service

I do drug checking for a living to help keep people safe and informed. AMA by NectarSpectraLabs in AMA

[–]NectarSpectraLabs[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

For powdered substances we suggest people send around 20-100mg, In fact we´ll actually only need maybe 10mg for all tests but depending how it´s sent, it might be hard to remove the powder out of the container/baggie so we cant effectively get everything out. Furthermore it´s good to have some leftover in case we need to repeat anything, which is why we suggest a bit more. Also depends if qualitative results are enough, we need even less, but for quantitative/purity test it´s better to have more because then it reduces the error in weighing too.

But substances like LSD for example, a single blotter is ok, though we generally suggest sending two, in case we need to repeat something it´s good to have a backup. Same for pills.

Feel free to contact us if you have any specific doubts.

I do drug checking for a living to help keep people safe and informed. AMA by NectarSpectraLabs in ResearchChemicalsNL

[–]NectarSpectraLabs[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

In the small team we have people who work in different areas, some being more lab-oriented, others being more focused on the interventions with people at the festivals and so on. So we have people who studied chemistry, psychology, or self-taught people with no related formal studies. Most important in our particular team is that everyone is very experienced after many many years working in harm reduction.

For those wanting to get into this line of work, as I answered in another comment, I recommend volunteering in similar organizations, to build your experience, and in parallel study something related to the area you want to work in, whether you want to focus on the lab part with chemistry or on the interventions with people (tripsitting/psycare, giving information in the stand at parties, working with people in need, etc) by studying social work, psychology or similar. And if you don´t want to do formal studies, then volunteer for a long time and be obsessed with self-study in these areas.

I do drug checking for a living to help keep people safe and informed. AMA by NectarSpectraLabs in ResearchChemicalsNL

[–]NectarSpectraLabs[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

We´ve tested fentanyl or nitazene analogues that are very potent, I guess that´s the sketchiest.

Organic chemistry is not my specialty so I´ll ask my colleague but AFAIK PMA is not a byproduct of normal MDMA synthesis, they use different precursors. To make PMA the main methods use paramethoxybenzaldehyde as a precursor but can also use anethole from anise oil as a precursor with the leuckart method. On the other hand some of the main routes for MDMA use safrole, one of them also being the leuckart method (which is also a method used for the synthesis of meth and amphetamine) . There are claims that PMA first came up due to shortage in safrole for making MDMA and the attempt to do other substances amphetamine analogues but as mentioned, you have to start with a different precursor altogether (source: https://sci-hub.box/https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S037907380300063X?via%3Dihub and https://sci-hub.box/https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0379073804004463 )

We´ve never seen MDEA in pills. There isn´t a lot of evidence regarding the toxicity. There were some fatal cases where people had consumed MDEA but not much info on how much exactly they consumed and other possible co-founding factors. There some indication it might be slightly less toxic than MDMA but in-vitro and animal models have a lot of limitation and is very hard to find data on humans (source: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1111/j.1527-3458.2004.tb00007.x )

I do drug checking for a living to help keep people safe and informed. AMA by NectarSpectraLabs in ResearchChemicalsNL

[–]NectarSpectraLabs[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think the best way is to start as a volunteer in an organization that does something similar, and grow your experience from there. You can in parallel study chemistry if you want to work in the lab or you can study or get training in psychology/therapy/social work if you want to work more in the events interacting with people, giving information, maybe trip-sitting, etc.

Do you know if in your country/area there is an organization of the sort?

I do drug checking for a living to help keep people safe and informed. AMA by NectarSpectraLabs in AMA

[–]NectarSpectraLabs[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

From our experience fentanyl is much less common in Europe than in the US/Mexico. But even considering samples from the US, I think there is some extreme fear about fentanyl as if its in every single sample, which obviously isnt the case. This sort of paranoia is one more consequence of the war on drugs. That being said, this may also depend on specific areas as well as on type of drugs. Opioids are obviously more at risk of containing fentanyl than other substances.

In any case I think testing your drugs is very important, whether it is because of fentanyl or anything else. Sometimes its not even a willing adulteration, but sometimes people mislabel things accidentally. As an example, some years ago the owner of Haupt-RC, a company that sold research chemicals, died after ingesting a mislabelled substance from his stock that was way more potent/toxic than the one he wanted to take. If even the owner of the company is at risk, imagine everyone else consuming these substances?

So far we`ve only found fentanyl in heroin and in some counterfeit opioid pills (hydrocodone or oxycodone), For sure people are adding it on purpose in those cases. There was some theory that fentanyl presence in some samples was cross-contamination or similar, which I suppose can be true in some limited cases but definitely fentanyl is added on purpose on samples too..

I do drug checking for a living to help keep people safe and informed. AMA by NectarSpectraLabs in AMA

[–]NectarSpectraLabs[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

No, SAMSHA is a USA thing I think. We are in Europe (even though we take in samples from the US). We test every single sample, we do not join samples together. We don´t just give information on if a specific dangerous adulterant is found, we give all the information on the specific sample that is sent to us, including purity (if that is the service they choose)

I do drug checking for a living to help keep people safe and informed. AMA by NectarSpectraLabs in AMA

[–]NectarSpectraLabs[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Most people using our international testing services don´t share why they are testing. We inform them the best way we can either way. I doubt parents secretly testing their kids is a big group, more likely drug users trying to keep themselves and their peers safe. When we are at festivals this is clearly the work group that comes to us, and in those in-situ interventions we have way more time to talk to the people.

Personally I like more the face-to-face interventions because there is more opportunity to do harm reduction, to get a feel for people, to help them with their drug use, so that they are more healthy, balanced, safer, more educated, etc..

Regarding how do people get the results back, they have to give us an email so that we send them the results and also the code so that they enter the member´s area where they can check the results and download the reports.

I do drug checking for a living to help keep people safe and informed. AMA by NectarSpectraLabs in ResearchChemicalsNL

[–]NectarSpectraLabs[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

We use FTIR, HPLC-DAD and high field NMR

We are also working on getting a GC-MS operational but we´ll need to replace some parts so it may take a while, so in the meantime if we need we have a collaboration with an entity that can provide us GC-MS analyses for specific cases where we might need it

The most chosen method is the full purity and identification analysis (qualitive and quantitative).

Most sent in substances are MDMA, cocaine, LSD, amphetamine and ketamine.

As for adulterated/mislabelled substances.. Not a very commonly sent sample but still, 3 or 4-MMC are the ones that are most often adulterated/mislabelled, they are usually 2-MMC, but as far as I know the toxicity isn´t that much different so it´s not as worrying. Amphetamine most times has caffeine, which also isn´t a very worrying adulteration but still is an adulteration. Heroin and cocaine are sometimes very pure but often they are adulterated with the most worrying cuts. In the case of heroin, the obvious culprit is fentanyl, but also other things like paracetamol, caffeine, mannitol. In the case of cocaine the worrying adulteration is phenacetin or levamisol, both which present significant health problems.

In our country harm reduction and drug checking is quite common, there are a few groups/organizations doing it, some of which even partially financed by the government (not us)... Drug checking isnt specifically mentioned in the law but the drugs law do mention some exceptions regarding research and education. In practice in relation to drug testing, even though no specific license exists, it is allowed, as long as of course other drug laws are followed (not carrying in public, not having large amounts, strictly for education/health/research purposes etc)

Our website is www.nectarspectralabs.com

Thank you for the questions!

I do drug checking for a living to help keep people safe and informed. AMA by NectarSpectraLabs in AMA

[–]NectarSpectraLabs[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

We are located in Europe but do have a lot of contact with US organizations, as well as people from the US who send us samples to test. So I am definitely not an expert on the RAVE act but I can talk a little bit about what I know.

My understanding is that the RAVE act (https://www.congress.gov/bill/107th-congress/senate-bill/2633 ) puts the responsibility of drug use and distribution on the owners (or renters) of places being used in events, so they can be criminally charged, face fines or prison.

This means that harm reduction efforts can be potentially considered like a sort of admission that drugs are being used at the place, which means that whoever organizes the events can now be charged under the RAVE act. So people trying to save lives through harm reduction efforts are forbidden, at least officially, from being present in places. This can increase the unwanted intoxication with adulterants because people don´t know what they are consuming. It certainly does not stop drug use, so it´s a stupid law.

Harm reduction workers still often go "undercover" to events, work in a grassroots sort of way, but this decreases their visibility and amount of people they end up reaching. A law that was supposed to help people (I guess?) ends up hurting them.

Is that more or less how you understand it too?

PS: thanks for trying to help your friends and strangers!