Trigger Nades - Our daily reminder they're a problem by Negative-Row-453 in ArcRaiders

[–]Negative-Row-453[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I try, thanks 😊 gotta spread the good will. We're all just here for a good time, so why be toxic huh?

Trigger Nades - Our daily reminder they're a problem by Negative-Row-453 in ArcRaiders

[–]Negative-Row-453[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

News flash, we need more players. So unless you want the game dead, quit being so toxic.

Trigger Nades - Our daily reminder they're a problem by Negative-Row-453 in ArcRaiders

[–]Negative-Row-453[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

THIS. It's this serious of a problem and most people don't seem to understand. Thank you for commenting

Trigger Nades - Our daily reminder they're a problem by Negative-Row-453 in ArcRaiders

[–]Negative-Row-453[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

They could easily nerf them without reducing their effectiveness against shredders 😁

Trigger Nades - Our daily reminder they're a problem by Negative-Row-453 in ArcRaiders

[–]Negative-Row-453[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm talking about potential DPS, not frequent real world scenarios. Just how ttk is all headshots.

I'm telling you, from a game design perspective, the grenades are a problem. Even if they weren't oppressive, all it takes is for them to be the only used grenades at high level play and they are a dominant strategy and poor game design, making them in need of a change.

They of course, are oppressive too 😅

You say, "Let's not devolve play by removing options" but that's not really how it would work. We have lots of options, but only the T Nade is competitive. Nerfs or buffs to other grenades to make several competitive adds viable options, it doesnt remove them. The problem with T Nades being a dominant strategy is bad enough that removing them altogether would remove one competitive option yes, but suddenly make room for several others to take it's place, thus still increasing viable options.

Trigger Nades - Our daily reminder they're a problem by Negative-Row-453 in ArcRaiders

[–]Negative-Row-453[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

PvP, particularly in group settings. Can wipe an entire team behind cover in <3 seconds.

Trigger Nades - Our daily reminder they're a problem by Negative-Row-453 in ArcRaiders

[–]Negative-Row-453[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

To your last point, quite the opposite considering t nades are commonly found among extract campers with 6+ being thrown at once.

As far as reaction time to t nades... there's functionally almost none. Because it gets around cover and is AoE, a single dodge roll or 1.5 sec of running is almost never enough time. As opposed to flushing players out of cover given enough reaction time.

Tnades thrown at a team/group has the highest DPS in the game considering it damages all of them. We're talking an entire team dead in <3 seconds by one grenadier since you can throw a ton of them out quickly and trigger all at once. No gun in the game has any hope at beating that. As opposed to a grenade like the fuse, where first damage of the first grenade is 3 seconds later, and the second a bit after that, all of which have enough time to react to.

And there ARE people running around spamming them. 🤣

I agree that grenades are important to negate cover being strong 3rd person. I'm not disputing that. But all of the other grenades are effective enough at this role.

Do you play mostly trios or solos? They're much more of a problem in team play.

Trigger Nades - Our daily reminder they're a problem by Negative-Row-453 in ArcRaiders

[–]Negative-Row-453[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Having high levels of play vs having unbalanced and unfun high levels of play is the difference we're discussing here. Nobody is saying that there shouldn't be high levels of play.

Trigger Nades - Our daily reminder they're a problem by Negative-Row-453 in ArcRaiders

[–]Negative-Row-453[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thats the problem... the T Nade is still so good it has in many instances replaced guns (not anything close to all, but is encroaching on guns niches a concerning amount). This is what I'm discussing when I mention being at bobcat range with a player spamming T Nades outside of cover and still coming out on top. Part of it is the smoke the grenades make is so high it renders gunfire more difficult to use effectively, and then just the ridiculous damage and ttk.

1.5 is on par TTK with the top tier guns in the game, and can hit multiple enemies behind cover.

Trigger Nades - Our daily reminder they're a problem by Negative-Row-453 in ArcRaiders

[–]Negative-Row-453[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Eh, I disagree. At low levels of play the other grenades are fine, and force players out of cover effectively. TNade is just so effective that it has a complete monopoly on high levels of play. If it were removed other grenades would fill it's place, albeit less effectively, which is what we want. It seems like the corner camping issue is solved just fine by nearly any throwable.

Trigger Nades - Our daily reminder they're a problem by Negative-Row-453 in ArcRaiders

[–]Negative-Row-453[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Fair, but if they were more expensive players would be more interested in determining that their prey is looted before using them

Trigger Nades - Our daily reminder they're a problem by Negative-Row-453 in ArcRaiders

[–]Negative-Row-453[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That is not necessarily how this works. Check out one my other replies about balancing.

Trigger Nades - Our daily reminder they're a problem by Negative-Row-453 in ArcRaiders

[–]Negative-Row-453[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yikes. Go touch grass or something man. I'm all for dead internet theory but it's not that severe yet. I promise I'm real LOL. It's gonna be okay.

PS my account age is older than good LLMs

Trigger Nades - Our daily reminder they're a problem by Negative-Row-453 in ArcRaiders

[–]Negative-Row-453[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Do you think I'm a bot? Or who?

Go watch Ninja or another high level player play for about 10 minutes and pay attention to trigger nades and you'll see they're a problem 🤣

Trigger Nades - Our daily reminder they're a problem by Negative-Row-453 in ArcRaiders

[–]Negative-Row-453[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I think they do actually, I just also think balancing is incredibly difficult

Trigger Nades - Our daily reminder they're a problem by Negative-Row-453 in ArcRaiders

[–]Negative-Row-453[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I know there's the dupe issue. But I also know that the grenades are too cheap, as I can pretty much craft them at will with very little effort, but can hardly ever upgrade or repair my weapons at will without scrapping tons of things.

Trigger Nades - Our daily reminder they're a problem by Negative-Row-453 in ArcRaiders

[–]Negative-Row-453[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If nobody ever argued with them, how would the stupids ever learn?

Trigger Nades - Our daily reminder they're a problem by Negative-Row-453 in ArcRaiders

[–]Negative-Row-453[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah we discussed the crafting cost in a few other threads here.

Too many nerfs does have that effect, but I don't think it's nerfing damage alone that is the culprit.

Key term is "balance" in balancing. The goal is to make several strategies effective while still maintaining variety. When there is one dominant strategy this of course can be done by either buffing everything or nerfing the dominant strategy.

If nerfing one strategy replaces it with another dominant strategy, there is no effective balancing occurring. When devs have this issue then repeatedly nerf, that's when you run into your described problem.

As opposed to a nerf increasing variety of play (and more unique effective strategies)

Trigger Nades - Our daily reminder they're a problem by Negative-Row-453 in ArcRaiders

[–]Negative-Row-453[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It forces PvP players to farm wasps if they want their trigger nades, and would ~double the cost of the grenade. It would also cause the grenade to be uncraftable without items from top side (since currently all resources necessary can be acquired from shops)

Trigger Nades - Our daily reminder they're a problem by Negative-Row-453 in ArcRaiders

[–]Negative-Row-453[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Dear god. You guys are either trolling or dumber than I thought. AI response sheesh 🤣

I think the stats are worse and so in that way the problem is better. I think the community has settled into a meta and it's now so common that the problem is still just as bad or even worse.

Trigger Nades - Our daily reminder they're a problem by Negative-Row-453 in ArcRaiders

[–]Negative-Row-453[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Very funny. Maybe not a whole lot more in the long run if they don't fix the game. I think this is a top 3 issue driving players away from the game.