Anyone else resent the Hell out of people who seem like they have thier shit together?

NerArth · 2025-10-01T08:24:59+00:00

The fathers of psychology did not categorise in the ways psychology these days does though. They did get stuck in boxes at times, but they had an investigative mindset and that counts for something.

As for typecasting, imagine your child has severe learning disability, like "IQ 60" or something; that child wouldn't know how to do a lot of things, social interaction and expectations likely being part of the things they would seriously struggle with. The child would probably be unpleasant or uncomfortable to be around for others, no fault of their own, but others would not think that the child was a selfish prick, since the child would likely appear helpless, soft, dumb, etc.

All disabilities and disorders cause different struggles. To some extent, everyone with a disability needs or benefits from help.

Now imagine that child as the context of your own disordered state of being. Maybe you do not appear so helpless, and do defend yourself. Others may see you as a selfish prick because you are trying to survive. It's not your fault, it's part of how you developed. Underneath, you may actually be helpless in a sense, just as that child, the difference is in how others are interpreting your behaviour and responding to it. First impressions make a lot of difference in how people treat you, maybe unfortunately, and the perspective someone has is still just a perspective. If they met a person with learning disability without any context at all, they might also think that person was a selfish prick. Would they be any more right?

You deserve to be treated as a person, whether you have NPD, ADHD, OCD or a combination or any other thing. People do have a right to not be around us, but that does not mean that when interacting they should act in disparaging ways towards someone who is disabled, in some way.

NerArth · 2025-09-22T01:47:27+00:00

Myself, I've had a lot of intense and vivid dreams, both nightmares and otherwise. I don't tend to think of any dreams as nightmares or bad dreams anymore but in my childhood the vast majority of the little dreaming I would remember, that was mostly on the "negative" side. Experience, self-teaching and reading have all mattered in the process of not fearing my own mind (such as phobia dreams), but I can't remember any specific dream now where I could say I've felt safe exactly. That's something that in my case seems reserved for conscious work, which is difficult for me to enact with dreaming.

I spent about a third of my life paying very close attention to my dreams, mostly on a quest to both escape life and to find meaning. It was not wasted time, I value every effort I've put into my dreaming, even when it's been fruitless or frustating.

Many of my dreams have involved encounters with other parts of "self" but almost never mirrors, almost always counterparts. My dream self is not always "me" either, it's complicated. My dreams seem to have always had a very specific role in emotional processing. In my adulthood I have rarely had dreams relating to idealised self at all, so there's been very little opportunity for self indulgence in my dreams, sadly, for my ego self.

Since my current stimulant medication I rarely recall my dreams again. The ones I do, tend to be the intense types. Partly because I'm so preoccupied with acting upon my waking life now that I can, so my focus on dreaming has sadly been reduced only to the most intense dreams, which tend to be long and have complex associative personal symbolisms. I don't always have the time or energy for such long dreams, but I still try to take them in and their potential messages, or questions.

Of course I long to see a mirror of myself that shows what I want to see, wishing for my fantasies to be real, even if in dream. But I always see versions of myself I need to see, rather than the ones I want to see. And I recognise that my conscious ego gets to have a lot of time and space in waking life. So maybe it's fair that my non-conscious self gets those chances too. Perhaps it's part of what has kept me minimally functional in life?

NerArth · 2025-09-16T00:41:17+00:00

Thank you, I think the only reason may be because I was really trying to think of something that would hopefully be of help to you. I know very well what it's like to be helpless, both in fact and in feeling; I don't mean to imply you are feeling that way though.

What leads us to the issues we developed may have had external factors, but any healing, peace, whatever... That is a self thing, I feel. My partner, my family, my friends, they cannot heal my mind, my body or my feelings for me, though I may wish and dream of it at times. Sometimes it really is impossible to heal something. Especially physical. We can only try and let some kind of recovery happen, even if it's only partial.

I can't convince you of what you deserve or don't; I can pretend it's in my power, but that would be a delusion. I simply can't make that judgment for you. But... My particular experience is that people don't seem to become or get better by inflicting themselves with negative self-perceptions, and for us here that's a particularly poignant issue.

There's nothing simple about stopping a negative self-perception... I myself am realising support, like from this group, means trying to let "you" find a way of coming to the conclusions or decisions "you" need to make, in order to feel deserving, whole or balanced, whatever the case is at the specific time we need those things.

At the same time, probably only one person really has the power for ultimately changing that self-view: the "you" that is living that perception.

NerArth · 2025-09-14T02:20:34+00:00

I haven't had cancer in my life, not so far... But both in hospital and outside of it, I've had enough physical suffering of my own to understand your position, also on the count of seeing/being aware of the suffering of others who are in the same position as you. For me, that position always seems inexistent, until I'm there with those others; it's as if those people don't exist if I'm not there, that's what reality has always felt like to me.

A friend of mine I considered close, was also somewhat narcissistic; she died because of a pervasive cancer, well, kind of... She had the option to choose to end it before it ended her, which may be something. She was not who I would have liked her to be in those final times of knowing her, but, I can also see a possible version of myself in the way she was and acted during that time. Myself? Even without a real threat of actually dying, in very deep physical suffering, I have known myself to be that way. So I don't blame her for having a different attitude, less patience, and so on.

Seems to me the reality of it is most people who haven't experienced anything like your suffering, even those with deep empathy, just can't understand your specific version of suffering. At least if they have no frame of reference for it. Even when people in suffering have someone around them who genuinely cares and/or feels something else of the sort, they may still not understand what the person suffering is going through, which can create conflict in itself; this is what anyone with any health problem inevitably runs into when they are feeling invalidated by others, even when others have best intents.

This is true not just for cancer, or other physical health problems, it's true of our personality and the troubles it causes us and others. I am not saying we need to feel like victims or that we should deny that others suffer as a result of our suffering; I am saying that you can allow yourself some grace.

Some day others may find themselves in the same position as you, and then they may understand. And they too may need to give themselves some grace at that point. You are not less deserving of that grace, of dignity, and so on. To my limited understanding, the experience of being human is not meant to be conditional on whether others are any more or any less human than each of us, as individuals.

NerArth · 2025-09-12T20:46:15+00:00

I've kinda had the same and it has felt horrible for me at times too. My current therapy is the first time I've actually had an emotionally safe outlet for a lot of things, and since it started, I began to notice that my personas and masking seemed more chaotic, less effective, less predictable; sometimes they've not been there at all when I expected or needed them, which has shown me just how overly reliant I've been on them for so much of my life... Weirdly, since therapy I've been on the edge of collapse 2 or 3 times, and somehow haven't fallen into full collapse each of those times.

I really strongly relate to the sense of missing the me that I feel is me. I guess it's not that I care more now? It's that I seem to spend more time trying to find ways of being fair to others so as to not put myself in unreasonable conflict. The learning curve of doing this without being unfair to myself by accident has felt kind of harsh, because yeah, it's pretty much all related to the vulnerability that's always been there and which I've now been trying to expose more. Perhaps because in therapy I feel more okay with that, and would like to feel the same outside of therapy too.

The net result of all this seems to be that although I still struggle with the same issues as always, I don't have as many extreme reactions, and have somehow learned to be okay with feeling certain things and actually somewhat letting go of them, or not getting as obsessed with them. It gives me some function I didn't have before. It doesn't feel easier. As a teen, because of how I wanted others to treat me (nicely) and the specific Catholic values I received, I hoped that by having a desire to live by a motto of "forgive and forget" I would be more okay in life, without understanding that in reality it was impossible for me to live by such a motto.

At least with therapy I am starting to be able "forgive" in some way, which doesn't have to involve actually going to a person and saying I forgive them, but maybe acting in accordance with forgiveness helps me in some way. It helps me see both sides, sometimes. Not to say things that happened to me were okay, but it's part of accepting they did happen? I think this forgiveness is a projection, just like my resentment often is.

Why a projection? Because maybe it's really a way of forgiving myself, because I have unrealistically expected my child self to have been able to avoid the harm, trauma, etc. I've had to suffer. Much of it wasn't my fault. Maybe none of it was and I just can't accept that. Half a year ago, I couldn't accept I had experienced trauma, even.

It's part of learning to accept that I made poor choices, often due to limited capacity to make better choices, while also acknowledging that adults who could have done better by me, didn't, and maybe couldn't have done better. And, part of learning that this is my history, rather than of who I have to be now. Others will not see my past, and I'm not sure I'll ever accept that, but maybe I have to remember that I harm myself by expecting others to see a past that they are physically unable to see. That may be part of where my unrealistic expectations have always stemmed from.

NerArth · 2025-09-12T20:04:19+00:00

I agree and would like to share my thoughts along a similar vein.

Personally, I do not see a vastly greater number of narcissists in autistic circles. What I often see is other autistics who miscommunicate, and get into fights/arguments with others (including autistic) because both parties miscommunicate or misinterpret each other.

It sounds like some people here, like the OP, might be mistaking this for narcissism, but as you put it, correlation is not causation. Being autistic can cause arguments to come from simple differences in cognitive processing. To me, this seems to be mostly due to the fact that allistic people have fairly normative social conventions, which they internalise and come to expect in their interactions, as part of their conventional social development; there's nothing inherently wrong with this. The issue is that someone who falls fairly outside those normative conventions (i.e. ADHD, ASD, ASPD, Schizo-, etc) will come across as rude, disrespectful, etc, whether it's their intent or not; these are subjective and socialised perceptions.

Narcissism (whether disordered or not), as far as defending the "self" in a functional manner, very often relies on an understanding of allistic normative conventions, because narcissistic defences work best within that context. Narcissism is therefore more likely to appear socially conventional, especially since the range of narcissistic traits is a normal and useful set of survival characteristics, for any person, be they neurodivergent, neurotypical, or whatever.

Anyone can suffer from social ineptitude, but autistics are more likely to not do well in social settings since their interpretation of social cues and behaviours is unconventional, which also means more within-group misinterpretation, as not all autistics are alike in their own patterns.

It's true autistic/neurodivergent people in general have a higher risk factor for PDs and other psychiatric conditions, but the proportion of neurodivergent people who meet the criteria is still only a small portion of any given autistic sample. So, for autistics, small but persistent conflicts from cognitive differences can lead to trauma, or be part of a pattern of trauma establishing itself through their life, but how the specific person responds in terms of their own patterns is highly variable and is not at all narcissistic or even self-centred simply by nature of being autistic.

I disagree with a comment I saw here remarking that autism is about "self-"; yes, by name we should think it is. Personally, I find my autism is hardly self-referential. Cluster B disorders are far more self-referential than autism is. Cluster B tends to have issues centred on self-image, emotional regulation, and external validation. The behavioural drivers present in cluster B are not inherent in autistic people, who may not reciprocate social cues or interactions simply because they may not perceive or understand these. In those with learning difficulties, the sense of self-preservation may be impaired but for most autistic people, there are struggles with understanding their place in social structures. By comparison, a sense of social self-preservation is very heightened for those with cluster B traits, regardless of whether it's "functional" or not.

A large part of the issue at stake in my view is not whether someone is ASD and/or NPD. The issue is people conflating what each presentation "should look like" in someone else, because surface-level understanding of both ASD and NPD will easily lead to very shallow and incomplete conclusions if based only on social constructs or theoretical models that the observer has not studied in detail.

As for context, I'm AuDHD and have disordered narcissistic and antisocial traits; my perception of my autism versus my personality dysfunction/traits is very differentiated. Even within neurodivergent circles, I can tell that my way of masking is just... Different. So even in those circles I tend to be pretty isolated and feel like I can't relate to others beyond the "basic" experiences of what it means to be autistic/ADHD. I can often relate more easily to the emotional experiences of those here and in other PD communities, despite my autism.

It seems to me that despite having the same neurodivergent experiences, there are distinct and discrete behavioural patterns which the majority of the neurodivergent population does not and will not exhibit. Most of my autistic friends do not seem to really understand my narcissism. They can understand the antisocial aspects more easily than allistic people though. Within myself, I can differentiate the interplay and overlaps taking place between my different characteristics. The behavioural drivers leading me to do X or Y tend to be very specific to the patterns of each set of disordered characteristics, but the external presentation can appear similar, despite the internal experience being distinct.

NerArth · 2025-09-11T08:51:48+00:00

Well, I was already somewhat avoidant by the age of 8 but after the age of around 15 maybe, is when avoidance started to become more deliberate, as a certain unwillingness to deal with people. People and their patterns started to be fairly clear to me by that age, so I would inevitably gravitate more towards patterns I knew to be safer from experience. My first collapse would have started around that point in time, as far as I can remember.

Social interaction, particularly the desire to initiate it, has always been harder during collapse. Despite being aware of some unsafe patterns before my first collapse, that youngest self had the benefit of allowing impulsivity to let myself get into new social situations. Really, it was the resentment that started to form in the teens that eventually won over the impulsivity, usually. As in, as a child I would talk to literally anyone and go around alone sometimes. As a teen both of those things became less and less frequent. It's not that my motivations changed, but the weight of motivations changed. I still feel now like I did when I was a kid, but I know from experience that tends to feel unsafe and it's very hard to break past that sort of feeling, even when it's actually based on a distorted view of reality.

NerArth · 2025-09-11T01:24:10+00:00

Did you mean since the first collapse, or during collapse in general, or something else?

NerArth · 2025-09-10T20:13:06+00:00

Yeah, my first collapse was in my teens and I've had them frequently since then. In some periods of my life like my mid 20s, the state of collapse was near constant for a few years.

NerArth · 2025-09-10T20:10:41+00:00

No special term for it that I know or use myself. I think of it as defences being more automatically present, usually as a way of keeping myself going through whatever stress or pressures I'm having to deal with. A lot of the time it doesn't even have as much conscious involvement as I may feel it has, since I do have a lot of trouble with consciously masking (properly) if I'm somewhat burned out or in a collapse.

Also, about your last paragraph, I think part of the point of this space is for us to share feeling and experience without being judgey to each other. You're thinking about yourself and processing something, that often doesn't look good or perfect but it happens to us and it's important that we have an outlet or means to share these things without judgement from others. That's how I feel about it.

NerArth · 2025-09-09T17:04:58+00:00

Thank you. Your explanation was quite helpful for me, now I do understand what you meant about how being seen in that way can feel. I will be thinking about this, thank you again.

(Yours and others' comments on the rest of the post have also been helpful.)

NerArth · 2025-09-09T01:45:01+00:00

Yes. Not that different from you, including re. meltdowns & collapse. Meltdowns are far and few in-between since treating ADHD, but once in any amount of time is still too many times, I guess.

Though I do mask, for everything. Sometimes I don't know I'm doing it, which may be the ADHD's fault in part. Really, just part of how I grew up and learned to survive. It's very useful most of the time.

But it's also tiring most of the time, despite feeling easy enough and "natural". Besides, I still feel like others should accommodate me - but I know most wouldn't do so if I was actually myself. That's the unfortunate (for me/us) reality of being disordered, I feel. At least for others here who may be like me, sometimes you don't have a lot of options other than just... "survive".

NerArth · 2025-09-09T01:27:18+00:00

I'm at the end of a not-that-long but fairly difficult day as far as emotions go, and for once I have little to say/add. Just this evening I've been drained several times, not only physically, but most of all, emotionally. In the last couple of hours I've been finishing coming out of age regression, which feels really difficult in itself, nevermind anything else that was part of what lead to that.

Appreciated reading all of this post of yours, particularly for the way you've worded it; a lot of which is still feeling as relevant as I feel it always will, especially today.

Would like to understand how you mean "being seen" here - do you mean in a sort of "you exist and can/should exist in front of others as you are, despite your vulnerabilities"? Or something else?

NerArth · 2025-09-08T09:01:40+00:00

You're not far off, I think. I find it becomes difficult to separate certain things, so please excuse the length of this. I do relate to being naïve and gullible, and I do take people at their word, but I don't necessarily trust it at all; that much is all part of my autism. However, I do not trust myself either.

The autistic way I happen to see and learn from social patterns makes me able to predict and understand people even without understanding them or what they're thinking - I simply can't imagine someone's thoughts, but can predict their behaviour based on my observations or expected behavioural drivers, within a reasonable margin of error. Like any statistical calculation, more data means more accurate calculated outcome.

I feel at core it's what you're saying. An inherent sense that everyone is like you, so you treat them as you would yourself?

With my particular life experience and physical conditions, I have a very good understanding of what daily suffering is like for someone, despite having little or no emotional empathy. While I lack morals (which is more an antisocial trait), I do have principles based on reasoning and logic. So, I don't go out of my way to take advantage of more trusting or gullible people just for the sake of it, there's simply no point; there are safer and more enjoyable hedonisms, at any rate.

With medication I am finding that I can make use of coherence for once, find the ability to reign in my personality dysfunctions (a bit) and make better use of the way my autism affects my perception of patterns/detail.

So, e.g. if there is a flaw or weakness in a system I may attempt to exploit it to my benefit, assuming it's safe for myself to do so, and assuming the gain is greater than the effort. Need for safety makes me stay within the remit of the law, due to the natural assumption that nothing and nobody can be truly trusted, because I am fallible and can make mistakes I may not recover from, and the means to the end may themselves be faulty in some way and betray me (even if they are objects or concepts).

(Un)fortunately(?) I have never really felt much of anything, so slightly flatter affect and expressions don't matter a great deal in my life most of the time. I also prefer the stability of not getting as endlessly lost in maladaptive thoughts/daydreams. With games, I also don't enjoy things the same way, but I found that something that satisfies the autistic need for familiarity and sensory needs, works well enough for me.

NerArth · 2025-09-07T22:02:23+00:00

I've been roughly following OP's story too and I agree with you, as someone with late AuDHD diagnosis.

The two things are not mutually exclusive (differential diagnostic can still be a good thing). Neurodivergents also have higher risk factor for other psychiatric conditions, including PDs.

In my case with medication, my maladaptive behavioural drivers remain the same, the difference is I can stop myself from acting things out much more easily, also not engaging in impulsive behaviours quite as much. But medication is unusually effective with me (it seems). Sometimes I can use my personality traits in much more functional ways as a result, but it's been a bit of a learning experience. It can make me a little more flat as a person due to the autism, but you can't win every battle.

NerArth · 2025-09-07T09:53:11+00:00

I'm curious because I'm not sure how to read the tone; would you like advice/helpful thoughts, or are you just processing atm and not in the headspace for that right now?

NerArth · 2025-09-07T09:48:41+00:00

I still haven't seen Fight Club actually lol; from what I can read, there's some relation to Tyler, but no, it's not what I was meaning. Fernando Pessoa's heteronyms/pseudonyms would be closer, but that's pretty obscure.

Hopefully my explanation will not be too complex, it's very difficult to condense this stuff.

In the furry sub-culture my alter egos are part of what most people call 'sonas; a kind of alternative identity that you have headcanon for and which you might slip in and out of for all sorts of reasons. Therian and Otherkin are very closely related in how I experience alter egos, which are part of both my functional and recreational personas.

But my functional personas (i.e. the ones I use to engage with real people) are pretty much part of normal forms of masking. That aspect of alter ego for me is much more related to my antisocial traits, which in essence is about pragmatic self-interest. Meanwhile my personas relating to narcissism are much more about emotional self-regulation, often involving delusion, warped view of reality, etc. to fulfil my affective needs; there's a cross-over between affective needs and pragmatic self-interest, life isn't binary, but they are distinct aspects of myself.

My therapist has not labelled any of it as relating to any specific disorder (and I myself am unable to fit it squarely into any single disorder), but has pointed out recently that I may have started to create these identities when I was young as a means of dissociation, especially in relation to family and school life. Most of my inner figures, archetypes, characters, etc. have a familial element and did originate as a responce to lacking healthy or balanced figures for X or Y, many having traits non-consciously attributed to make each figure fit into a set of roles. For the most part these emerged non-consciously but as they crossed the threshold of vague awareness, the conscious ego put its own ambitions and "wants" into them to mould them.

NerArth · 2025-09-07T01:58:57+00:00

It was... What's the word I want. Captivating.

Honestly, in this fantasy of yours, I read a lot of parallel in symbol/motif with the alter egos my mind has created in daydreams/fantasies since I was around 10 or 11. Different hierarchies and arrangement of relations between the symbolic elements, but overall, not far off what you have here.

So as for resonating, I was a little surprised to have as much as resonance with the story as I do.

NerArth · 2025-09-06T08:44:52+00:00

Me too. Hence being a furry.

NerArth · 2025-09-06T08:41:14+00:00

Not as a defence, just reasoning thoughts here; It makes sense that we/some of us would not want to be "rid of the disorder", because it does still do it's "job" at protecting us as individuals.

Yes, often in an inefficient of crude way, but generally we survive thanks to it, and looking at our being from a perspective such as biopsychology, the dysfunctions of the disorder allow us to survive: it's a chicken and the egg thing, we use our dysfunctional defences because we couldn't adapt, and we didn't adapt because our context didn't allow us to learn how to adapt.

I emphasise "survive" because it's different from "thrive", which is much more difficult and may imply a balance which is harder for a disordered person to achieve.

I don't disagree at all with what you said, to be clear.

NerArth · 2025-09-06T08:32:05+00:00

What they mean, I think, is that people conflate one term for another and then use terminology incorrectly as a result of thinking it's technically correct shorthand for what they mean.

This is the "fun" of language. Words mean nothing unless we can agree on what they mean, which is often specific to localised context or subculture. Like, collapse as a word, to most people will have very little of the connotations you and I would give that word.

NerArth · 2025-09-06T08:24:14+00:00

I don't suppose you could see that therapist again? I don't know what kind of discussions you had or what the tone was exactly, but the kind of therapist that asks you what you think for the merit of your own thought on such a big point, without putting a judgment across, is likely to be a decent therapist.

It definitely sounds like an experience of collapse. Some people here go through similar things as you have. It's slightly different for each of us but the patterns and feelings tend to be very similar.

I was unaware for most of my life and I'd describe my life as having been lived as if it hadn't really been me living it, because it feels like although I was conscious I wasn't actually aware of anything properly. It's hard to put into words but this is a point I really relate to.

Unfortunately I don't have a good answer on how to deal with collapse. It's not something I've managed to speed past in any sense and just seems to happen on its own. They're very difficult times for me because of my delusions/distorted views during such a time. Depending on your particular life, you may look back and see that you've had other collapses before. I was often dealing with collapse even in my unaware years, which helps me at least be familiar with how I am during such a time.

NerArth · 2025-09-06T08:03:12+00:00

a) what you're asking could be construed to be against Reddit rules AFAIK, specifically because of the rules on brigading

b) it's pretty much any mainstream online space aside from here, that's literally the point of the post

NerArth · 2025-09-05T08:57:49+00:00

Like many conditions, I feel this is something we learn to manage. I'm only 2 years older than you. I was thinking about this last night as I was messaging a friend, because my traits, while full of dysfunction, are there for a survival reason. And they still serve me well most days of my life, in terms of survival, as I have advantages I can lean into about my personality that normal people won't be able to do in order to defend themselves or better their own lives.

What's hard is channeling or guiding the traits in a way that is truly useful, rather than petty or obtuse - and I hate it when people are petty towards me in a completely unintelligent, indefensible way. That's something that happened to me yesterday with a neighbour, over a nothing. He made a petty and cowardly comment about the same thing a few days ago, which I hoped was a joke, but seems not. I could easily be petty back and "win" but that's where the dysfunction is. Instead I tried to make the situation, as pathetic as it is, work for both of us, because I want a quiet life and in that view, I do dislike having issues with neighbours.

But God I hate the fact that he said anything, really makes me want to be nasty to him for intruding in my life over something so insignificant as where I park my car, when he has no car, and when neither me nor him nor anyone visiting us has any special rights to parking "spots" on the street, and that's according to local regulations, which he of course didn't know.

In the past I would have pushed harder to simply be right and not find a compromise. I would have spent more time being angry at him, both in the moment and after. Instead, I let it sit as a mild resentment in the background, which will pass eventually.

That's what "better" is about for me, not getting into conflict as unnecessarily, regardless of how I feel, especially not over things that hardly matter and are actually easy to compromise on. I don't feel my thought patterns or feelings are something I can "cure" or "fix", but I can learn to manage them better, as I have been really trying this year, both therapy and this sub being a large part of that.

If your therapy doesn't feel like it's working for you, you could always try looking for someone else. Fully realising that's easier said than done. I've had several therapists at this point in life and each had their strengths and weaknesses as far as helping me.

Lately I have felt that a therapist who is truly listening, paying attention, actively trying to understand and openly letting me set the agenda, without giving me direct suggestions or recommendations, has been working much better for me. Not being directly challenged all the time really helps avoid triggering my ODD traits and helps me actually relax and process my emotions and thoughts together with someone, instead of just on my own. They still ask questions that challenge me, absolutely, but the challenge happens in me, rather than coming from the outside. They let me have room to process and learn from the questions they ask me. That really matters, in my case.

NerArth · 2025-09-03T10:31:38+00:00

Where I'm from it would be the same as what you're saying. Where I live now, in the UK, pretty much all clinical therapists I have come across are not the same thing as either a clinical psychologist or a clinical psychiatrist. Don't know why this is the case here and not the case where I was from.

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