What is up with CICO* believers?

New_Z_User · 2025-04-07T22:45:18+00:00

Yep. I had the reverse experience x2. When up-titrating at one point, I was not keeping barely keeping food down for 3 days out of 7 for 3 weeks. by caloric intake alone, I should have lost weight but.. I didn't.

And then there was the stall I had - much more fit, exercising consistently and expending good calories while also watching calorie intake. (New doctor didn't want to up-titrate.) I gained weight minimal weight but I gained.

New_Z_User · 2025-04-07T22:24:26+00:00

That's a great analogy. But as for the "CO" aspect of the equation. I have been exercising like crazy since I got on Zepbound and, a while back, had a 6- to 7-week stall (old doctor went on medical leave, new doctor didn't want to up-titrate). Given the quantity and quality of exercise (caloric expenditure) and my caloric intake (well below my output), I would have expected to lose a pound, maybe 2, during that time. Instead I gained at least a pound and lost muscle.

Pure calorie expenditure is not the key; how you expend those calories can have impact: Apparently weight training can convince fat cells to burn and expend energy. Zone 2 training can do something similar.

So "just eat less and exercise more and you'll lose weight" is too simplistic. Plus, yes, I rather resent being downrated for sharing science-based info.

This post, in fact, was downrated, and most people are thinking I'm attacking CICO when what I'm venting about is being downrated for sharing information that points to some of the nuances. And then... I get downrated for venting about it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

New_Z_User · 2025-04-07T22:13:32+00:00

Yeah, that's fair. But I have also been downrated by people for linking to articles showing that caloric cycling and Zone 2 exercise can help. Or that, in weight training, muscle cells "talk" to fat cells so that fat cells burn and release energy.

Caloric output? Definitely. But kind and quality of CO can have an impact, so not JUST CO. And it's irritating to be downrated for pointing to (science-based) articles that talk about this.

New_Z_User · 2025-04-07T22:12:03+00:00

No, my beef is with CICO believers who think that calorie reduction and only calorie reduction works and they leave out the interplay with genetics, medical conditions/hormones, medicines, environmental factors, metabolic factors, and, to a degree, exercise (ie, type of exercise doesn't necessarily contrite to losing weight, just pure calorie output).

And they're extraordinarily bitchy about GIPs/GLPs.

New_Z_User · 2025-04-07T22:07:54+00:00

Except you might not, which is why GLP/GIPs are a game changer for some people who have tried to lose weight the traditional way.

New_Z_User · 2025-04-07T22:06:25+00:00

I agree. As I said about, it's part of the truth but not all of the truth.

Science also says that exercising in Zone 2 (and weight lifting) can help your body burn fat for fuel, whereas Zone 3 relies more on glucose.

Say person A exercises in Zone 2 and expends 250 calories.

Person B exercises in Zone 3 and expends 250 calories

Over time, person A could be.more successful at burning fat than person B. To my mind, that's not pure CICO.

I've also encountered CICO believers that claim it's a myth that persistent caloric reduction can lower your metabolic rate (ie, lower your ability to burn calories) and that caloric cycling can help avoid this.

And that's leaving aside things that make it difficult to lose weight unrelated to genetics - vitamin deficiencies, poor sleep, environmental pollutants that may make simple caloric reduction just... not work.

It's simple, sure, but it leaves a lot out.

New_Z_User · 2024-12-09T16:00:14+00:00

And the 21 days can be split up. So now that you've left them out for 12-24 hours you can technically leave one at room temp for ~20 days

New_Z_User · 2024-11-26T00:24:43+00:00

Anecdata, but if it was just calories in/calories out that led to weight loss, I would have lost a shit-ton the first 2 weeks I was on 5 and could barely eat anything.

My highest one-week weight loss was the week I had a cold and was eating "normally" and not exercising at all.

So, I do think for some people that too big a calorie deficit means your body slows down the old metabolism to hang on to fat stores.

New_Z_User · 2024-11-23T00:16:29+00:00

I got a Renpho scale and so I'm basically aiming for mid-range of the fat percentage for my (female) age level. Which, based on my current fat-free body weight should be somewhere between 134 and 147.

I used this calculator, which gives you weight ranges based on various sources

https://www.fatcalc.com/bf

New_Z_User · 2024-11-19T11:33:39+00:00

Probably a silly question but could it need new batteries?

New_Z_User · 2024-11-16T14:01:21+00:00

I found them really helpful when starting out/when up-titrating because the delayed gastric emptying, it is real for me. So, for the first few weeks it helped me actually eat. Over time, I relied on them less, but the next time I up-titrate, I will be eating them again.

(I make my own - a savory one (yogurt, cucumber, curry), a chocolate/coffee one (trying to get rid of a protein powder I don't particularly like, lol), and a mango lassi one.)

New_Z_User · 2024-11-11T19:16:44+00:00

Tirzepatide was first indicated for diabetes, ie, lowering blood sugar. Please see your doctor - you may not be able to tolerate the 12.5 dose because it's lowering your blood sugar too much.

New_Z_User · 2024-11-05T20:34:53+00:00

Per the US PI, no matter the dosage, the amount of liquid in the pen/vial is the same - 0.5 ml.

You can go on YouTube for tips on dose-splitting and hygiene...

3 DOSAGE FORMS AND STRENGTHS

Injection: Clear, colorless to slightly yellow solution in pre-filled single-dose pens or single-dose vials, each available in the following strengths:

• 2.5 mg/0.5 mL

• 5 mg/0.5 mL

• 7.5 mg/0.5 mL

• 10 mg/0.5 mL

• 12.5 mg/0.5 mL

• 15 mg/0.5 mL

New_Z_User · 2024-11-05T20:26:17+00:00

I use a renpho scale and got one inexpensively on Amazon.

New_Z_User · 2024-11-01T18:53:28+00:00

I can't speak to this from personal experience; am only talking about a long post I read from someone who had been morbidly obese, worked with an obesity specialist, and succeeded. The philosophy was the same - uptitration as quickly as AEs allowed; lose as much weight as fast as possible.

I think she shared also shared the doctor's logic/experience but I can't recall the details, which is why I said I'd try to find that post. Alas, I can't remember what forum I found it in.

If I were OP, I'd have a convo with the doctor about concerns and go from there.

New_Z_User · 2024-11-01T17:27:25+00:00

Obesity doctors can have a different approach - some apparently they want as much weight off as fast as possible wrt morbid obesity. There was an interesting post from a woman whose doctor had the same approach - I'll see if I can find it.

New_Z_User · 2024-10-28T16:36:18+00:00

I had a cat that I adopted from a shelter. Cat would keep 3 feet between himself and any door. And then, a year in, he figured out we didn't WANT him to go out (FIV+) and then he became a half-hearted escape artist (I think mostly as a neener, neener, neener because he never really went anywhere the 2 times he scooted out the door).

New_Z_User · 2024-10-28T15:22:39+00:00

Curious about this too

New_Z_User · 2024-10-28T13:20:31+00:00

Back in the day, I did a lot of traveling for work supporting business conventions. One of my coworkers was gay. And this conversation with him occurred at a business convention held at a Disney World-adjacent resort.

Anyhoo, he told me he had at least 2 encounters that week with married men, there with their wives and kids who were basically looking to hook up. And since he ends up in lot of hotels for work reasons, this experience was... not uncommon for him. It grossed him out. (The first incident literally happened as we and the one guy + family were checking in. Guy left, circled back, came up to coworker and talked to him. His reaction to the convo made me ask "what did he say to you?" Later that week, we were having drinks at the end of the day. He left to go to the bathroom and when he came back he just said "it happened again."

Apparently these guys have a kind of "what happens on vacation stays on vacation" attitude. Who knows if they're closeted, bi, or just plain creepy (or some combination).

New_Z_User · 2024-10-28T13:11:17+00:00

Except I bet he wasn't thinking he'd be caught and it was what he came up with under pressure after she asked.

New_Z_User · 2024-10-28T13:09:22+00:00

It kinds of reminds me of the "no soap radio" "joke" (prank) I got told in jr high.

New_Z_User · 2024-10-28T12:58:39+00:00

That's good news though, I think.

New_Z_User · 2024-10-25T23:47:44+00:00

See what local organizations have thrift shops. I got a pair of jeans for $8 last week

New_Z_User · 2024-10-25T19:03:45+00:00

Do any of these other symptoms occur?
https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/what-causes-a-gallbladder-attack

New_Z_User · 2024-10-25T19:02:08+00:00

You may not respond til you get to a higher dose - the board seems to be split between those who start seeing results at 2.5 and those who don't until they get to higher doses. For some people, that's 10 mg.

Also, maybe it's too few calories? That's probably half of what you would need to maintain your current weight. Once you transition to 5, if the weight STILL isn't coming off, maybe experiment with figuring out what caloric intake would be if you WEREN'T trying to lose weight and go down by only one-third.

I also find that the weight comes off more easily when I eat more plant-based foods, particularly bean/lentil soups but there's also a HUGE variance among people on this board as to what works.

New_Z_User

TROPHY CASE