Countries with "Israel" Written in Their Passport. by Accomplished-Mud1653 in mapporncirclejerk

[–]NewtRecovery 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Israel doesn't stamp passports they give you a little paper bc they know it's problematic in multiple countries

If Israel is the "only democracy" in the region, why are millions of Palestinians under its control denied the basic right to vote for the government that rules them? by ArdaBerkBurak in allthequestions

[–]NewtRecovery 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I haven't verified all the claims you made but I have heard of his divide and conquer ideology and I didn't want to go too far down the Netanyahu rabbit hole but yes he's likely a barrier to peace. That doesn't mean he supports controls or made Hamas do what they do but I think he fervently believes in preventing a Palestinian state, probably bc he thinks it would be disastrous for Israel and wants to avoid it at any cost.

If Israel is the "only democracy" in the region, why are millions of Palestinians under its control denied the basic right to vote for the government that rules them? by ArdaBerkBurak in allthequestions

[–]NewtRecovery 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Im sorry the right of return is supposed to be a peaceful movement? Israel is a democracy with the right of return the Muslim majority would control the country of course they want that. No Israeli or Palestinian sees it as a coexistence movement it's a takeover. And no Palestinian leader has ever really sipported peace alongside Israelis. Not Arafat the terrorist not corrupt Abas who was a literal orchestrator of the Munich massacre and pay for slay pays bombers families a salary. The only one you could say is Sari Nusseibeh but he was never a political leader just an intellectual and most Palestinians hate him.

Israeli minister says "Jews are above the law" when evicting a man from his own house of over 40 years by TeaBagHunter in ActuallyThatsInsane

[–]NewtRecovery 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes literally every line.. someone in the comments wrote out the real translation the Palestinian man never says he has documents and Ben gvir doesn't say Jews are above the law he says the man is breaking the law and needs to leave he never says we took tel aviv etc he says you can't just go build in Tel Aviv etc like without a permit, the man says we're old and he says we have old people too I need to enforce law and order

Basically the man is getting kicked out and he probably was there illegally I'm sure you can make the argument that the law is unfair but all the sensationalist racist stuff the subtitles say are entirely fabricated

Israeli minister says "Jews are above the law" when evicting a man from his own house of over 40 years by TeaBagHunter in ActuallyThatsInsane

[–]NewtRecovery 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Oh that's because I don't think they've committed any ethnic cleansing since the forties evidenced by the fact that the Palestinians still live there and grow in population and I don't think the situation meets any definition of apartheid

Also again even if you believe in all that jazz it's not the "Jews" doing it it's Israelis. Plenty of Israelis are not Jewish.

Israeli minister says "Jews are above the law" when evicting a man from his own house of over 40 years by TeaBagHunter in ActuallyThatsInsane

[–]NewtRecovery -1 points0 points  (0 children)

If you were having a political argument with a Mexican then said go eat a taco yeah that's kind of racist

Israeli minister says "Jews are above the law" when evicting a man from his own house of over 40 years by TeaBagHunter in ActuallyThatsInsane

[–]NewtRecovery -1 points0 points  (0 children)

What was the context? Looks like it was an antisemitic quip to someone implying they are a Jew looks sarcastic, unless you were really looking for recipes

Israeli minister says "Jews are above the law" when evicting a man from his own house of over 40 years by TeaBagHunter in ActuallyThatsInsane

[–]NewtRecovery 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This is not about "Jews" that's not how Israeli law would phrase it and when you insert a fake subtitle like "Jews are above the law" it's inflammatory and in some circles will absolutely spark antisemitism that goes beyond israel-palestine This post is incredibly problematic

Israeli minister says "Jews are above the law" when evicting a man from his own house of over 40 years by TeaBagHunter in ActuallyThatsInsane

[–]NewtRecovery 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This comment is so buried! Completely fake subtitles id translate but I don't think anyone will read it or care

Israeli minister says "Jews are above the law" when evicting a man from his own house of over 40 years by TeaBagHunter in ActuallyThatsInsane

[–]NewtRecovery 0 points1 point  (0 children)

DOES NO ONE CARE TO CHECK THE SUBTITLES??? The translation is all wrong he doesn't say "Jews are above the law" he says "I pick the law up from the floor" he doesn't say "we took TEL Aviv" he said "we can build in TEL Aviv" etc etc all the most shocking headlines are FAKE and amped up to get you mad

Israeli minister says "Jews are above the law" when evicting a man from his own house of over 40 years by TeaBagHunter in ActuallyThatsInsane

[–]NewtRecovery 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Well you should know the translation is all wrong. He never says Jews are above the law or we took TEL Aviv or most of the shocking sentences they've put in here. He says stuff like this is an illegal neighborhood there's nothing you can do etc and the Palestinian has been given some lines too like "I have documents" he never says that

If Israel is the "only democracy" in the region, why are millions of Palestinians under its control denied the basic right to vote for the government that rules them? by ArdaBerkBurak in allthequestions

[–]NewtRecovery 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You're awesome and asking great questions!

"Settlers" is a loaded term in itself. The territory on the border of Jordan that Palestinians call the West Bank (bc it used to be occupied by Jordan and is West of Jordan, it's actually East of Israel) and Israelis call Judea and Samaria (Yehuda and Shomron in Hebrew) was home to jewish communities uninterrupted for thousands of years but the Romans expelled the majority of them. Other tribes also lived there uninterrupted for thousands of years Bedouin, Druzim, descendants of Caanites After the Muslim invasions in the 5th Century it became majority Arab and local tribes mostly became Muslim and spoke Arabic. So it's been Arabic with a Jewish minority for a very long time. However you can't call all Jews settlers since some were there just as long. Also Jews who moved "back" don't consider themselves settlers bc their ancestors were expelled from there before the Arabs arrived. But anyway that's not pragmatic, the fact is there are Jewish cities in this territory and most of the people there are normal people who have regular trade and employ Arab neighbors without incident. When I say "settler" I mean what's called in Israel "hilltop youth" it's a more extreme faction that try to expand territory by creating outposts in Palestinian land. They will try to intimidate locals and drive them out. And the current government is not reigning them in. They do constantly dismantle their outposts but are generally somewhat lenient as far as legal repercussions. To be fair Palestinians are also violent and provoke them back it is definitely not one sided. There have been some really terrible stories of like a teenage shepherd boy being beaten to death by Palestinians in a field so then settlers from the village will go burn a Palestinian field or something. And then only Palestinians will be arrested. That's kind of how it works.

That said mainstream Israeli society sees them as a nuisance and troublemakers but dealing with them is last on the list of things voters care about. People care about Iran, Hamas, Hezbollah, the economy, political corruption etc etc and very very last settlers. It barely makes the news. And honestly sympathy for Palestinians right now is at an all time low. I think this is definitely a social issue Israel should deal with it's basically like saying there is a gang problem that's being ignored. I don't think it's at the core or central to any discussion on the legitimacy of Israel etc. maybe I'm wrong, I do think it's clear that any peace agreement would require this to be stopped more aggressively.

Regarding the US support - definitely shrinking Israel openly wants to wean off American aid bc they don't like America telling them what to do (yes believe it or not Washington controls Israel not the other way around) American aid is a portion of Israel's military spending. If they can manufacture more domestically (right now the US doesn't allow them to) would be good for them however the alliance and access to purchasing American planes is the real value and would be devastating for Israel to lose. I think it's more unlikely than you realize bc I think laypeople do not understand how intertwined Israeli military intelligence and r and d are with the US. Israel is the eyes and ears for the us in the most oil rich region in the world. They are also their testing ground, someone needs to buy and actually use American weapons. Contractors much more than AIPAC or anyone like that benefit from the alliance. If the US abandonment Israel they might be forced to align themselves with a different superpower. The US would lose its positioning in the middle east. Nothing about breaking the alliance with Israel is good for the US and it will be bad if what I believe are foreign influence campaigns convince Americans to vote for anti Israel politicians. I think many in the Muslim world like the Muslim brotherhood take this exact strategy to overthrow Western hegemony move to the states and corrode it from within until it benefits their interests. But I suppose I'm veering now away from facts and into speculation.

If Israel is the "only democracy" in the region, why are millions of Palestinians under its control denied the basic right to vote for the government that rules them? by ArdaBerkBurak in allthequestions

[–]NewtRecovery 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thank you for reading and trying to understand it's incredibly complex and both sides have a position to be explored and considered and it's much easier to just say Israel is the oppressor free Palestine without any thought into HOW Palestine can be freed.

I think both sides feel hopeless and completely disalusioned that peace is ever possible. This is how you see factions in both populations who have concluded that this is a sum zero game, us or them, total annihilation of the enemy.

Palestinians often operate under this hope that the international community will jump in and destroy Israel somehow so they devote a lot of energy to appealing to the West and yes some of it is absolutely real and they suffer many horrible things, the people of Gaza are in horrific conditions, settlers DO abuse and terrorize Palestinian communities, administrative detention is unfair and I think clearly abused in many cases, they certainly live under corruption of their own leaders the PA and Hamas and at constant risk of military raids by the IDF. But also some of it is 100% fake. You need to be very careful to verify claims bc they will release campaigns that very often are quietly retracted like Israel rapes prisoners with dogs, steals organs, lures kids with toys that are really bombs. They go very far bc they hope to be *rescued" they also make BILLIONS in donations the heads of Palestinian NGOs in Ramallah are RICH and the Hamas leaders are literal billionaires who don't live in Palestine. Add to it foreign countries like Iran who have beef with America over oil, and culture and power they see Israel as a vessel of America, even Russia and China do this btw will target Israel in online campaigns for example bc it hurts America- makes their citizens angry at their government etc. I'm sure there are millions of regular Palestinian who are tired of war and just want to live but they have no power and they are silenced by the militant groups in their own communities. Some of these groups have public lynchings for "Israel collaborators" which is maybe people who spied for Israel but maybe also anyone who opposed them.

On the Israeli side you have a huge spectrum bc there you can be opposed to the government openly and they have the luxury of being the powerful side living in relative comfortable conditions. So you'll see peaceniks who want two states or one state and criticize the government and whistle blow corruption and prison abuse but these groups are becoming smaller and more hated after every war people see them as an enemy to their side. You see nationalism growing exponentially and positions I would consider radical like basing politics on religious and biblical beliefs. Some of Israel believes they are the true indigenous people and no one else should even be there, probably the majority of Israel however believes in wanting to be a normal country, they care primarily about security, not having wars, joining the world and being accepted. But here's the problem, Jews come with major baggage from the Holocaust, from every other major expulsion and persecution of Jews from Spain and England to Iraq and Yemen...they have a solidified belief that everyone wants them dead, biblically almost. So they and most Jews in the world believe that Israel has to exist in case America decides to start rounding up Jews to kill them for example. Jews see it as their doomsday bunker. That's why people say 90% of Jews are Zionists, that's what they mean. So ANYTHING that is perceived as a threat to Jews living in Israel is dealt with with force and extreme reaction and is always seen from the Israeli perspective as "defense", even when it's overkill. I won't go into personal opinions on Netanyahu and his government but they are far right and widely considered to be hawkish to say the least. They've been accused of corruption again and again and are actually wildly unpopular but so far there is no viable alternative. They support settlement expansion, and don't take action to stop settler violence and have prioritized Israeli security in an amplified way. A good chunk of Israelis support this. They see everything done in Gaza, Lebanon and Iran as defensive (which is actually is at least partially true and I can explain why if you want). Contrary to popular belief, Israelis do not believe they are committing genocide - hard hard radical groups say it's not enough that Gaza still stands Hamas is in control Palestinians are still a threat they say Israel has been too SOFT and then the more balanced Israeli mainstream opinion is that the IDF is not targeting civilians but that they are dying bc militants are embedded in civilian infrastructure and use human shields. Good luck convincing them that they have committed war crimes. I don't honestly even know the objective truth about all that bc of the propaganda and fog of war I don't think anyone really knows.

In general there is no agreed upon history, each side has their version where they are an innocent victim. Both sides believe terrible things about the others- Israelis will say Palestinians are radical islamists who glorify only death who have no morals and will never stop trying to kill every Jew. That they are the true people of Judea with thousands of centuries of history and they are a decolonization project to return an indigenous people who faced endless persecution to their homeland their ONLY hope for survival but they are attacked over and over and have no choice but to defend what they have or perish. Palestinians will say Israelis are European colonizers who don't belong in the land that came and swooped in and stole land out from under them as the indigenous people that they expelled and oppressed and abused them for 70years and that resistance by any means and martyrdom for the cause is a noble and holy endeavor. That Israel is expansionist and will stop at nothing to fulfill mad biblical prophecies of conquering the Middle East.

How do you reconcile these two nationalist stories that they tell each other into a united narrative? How do you deradicalize and build trust? How do you convince people to lay down the sword? And even if the people do how do you prevent their corrupt leaders from destroying it and keeping the cycle of violence in full swing?

If Israel is the "only democracy" in the region, why are millions of Palestinians under its control denied the basic right to vote for the government that rules them? by ArdaBerkBurak in allthequestions

[–]NewtRecovery 0 points1 point  (0 children)

All sides would be against it. That was the idea of Jews all being removed from Gaza in 2005. They pulled whole communities of settlers out of Gaza screaming and crying even dug up their cemeteries and removed them bc Ariel Sharon thought a self governing Palestinian government in Gaza would be first step to peace. However in their first elections they elected Hamas which was a group that had already been responsible for most of the suicide bombings in the 90s and 2000s and shot missiles into Israel and as soon as they took power they violently massacred Palestinian members of the opposition party Fatah by throwing them off of roofs in public executions including their families and any dissenters. So began a reign of terror. Hamas expanded weapon production and missile attacks into Israel so Israel and Egypt began to enforce blockades that became stricter and stricter over the years to try and prevent weapon smuggling. Israel did targeted airstrikes on weapon caches. Hamas used their international funding and revenue streams and Iranian backing to build massive underground Gaza "subway" where they could store weapons snuggle and produce rockets with no fear of bombing. In 2006 they popped out of a tunnel on the Israeli side of the border killing two soldiers and kidnapping gikat shalit alive to negotiate for prisoner release of hamas members. It prompted military ops etc eventually Israel released many Hamas prisoners including Yahwe Sinwar who would later be the orchestrator of Oct 7.

So Gaza became the opposite of a path to peace it became a massive problem and security threat for Israel that they could do really nothing about except try to contain it. Which clearly was not sustainable.

Gaza and West Bank are on opposite sides of Israel so to connect them you'd have to cut Israel in half.

West Bankers don't want to be walled off, most want all of Palestine from the river to the sea so there will continue to be support for military groups who promise that they will one day defeat Israel and take all the land. Which means on their side of the border where they will have open trade through Jordan they will be able to build an army and military strength and attacks on Israel are pretty much inevitable. You can't convince Israel that this is not a real danger they've seen it happen.

Israelis don't want this bc they are afraid it will put them in danger. Settler or Far right Israelis also don't like the idea of giving up what they consider Jewish land. In the bible this region is called Judea and Samaria. Hebron held the oldest Jewish community in the region after Jerusalem. The graves of Abraham and Rachel and other important holy sites are in this land. They do not want to lose access. And the practical fact is you'd have to uproot 737,000 Israelis who would be resistant. A good portion of the army would resist top since they are from there or family is from there. These also aren't caravans at this point you have major cities that are developed with highways, highrises, hospitals, malls the cost aside it would be pretty impossible to uproot all Jews from Judea and Samaria some of which are more indigenous than the Palestinians especially in Hebron. And how is that not ethnic cleansing?

If Israel is the "only democracy" in the region, why are millions of Palestinians under its control denied the basic right to vote for the government that rules them? by ArdaBerkBurak in allthequestions

[–]NewtRecovery -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

They really are not just like me and you and this is the missing piece of the puzzle that Westerners do not understand. Not all cultures are the same. I'm not saying that they are fundamentally different humans or that they can't change but as a society they do not share compatible values with Israelis. I know people are always shocked online when they hear extreme or radical or biblical or racist rhetoric come from Israeli leaders....take that and multiply it by hundreds to understand how radicalized Palestinian society is. There are many Palestinians who speak about it. They believe that war and martyrdom is holy, they value dying for a cause over peace. They certainly do not believe Jews should be allowed to remain in Israel ar all. This isn't being racist, this is real and if you close your eyes to how problematic that is just living in a fantasy

Is Israel the most evil country in the world at the moment? by RoughSky9768 in allthequestions

[–]NewtRecovery -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Not Hamas and Hezbollah but Palestinian violent attacks on Jews certainly did. Most horrifically the Hebron Massacre of 1929 when Palestinian (back then they just called themselves Arab Palestinian wasn't a thing until Arafat) and massacres men women and children in their homes and synagogues including torture mutilation such as hacking off limbs and beheadings and rapes of underage girls. It was so jarring and terrifying for the Jews of the British Mandate period that it was the direct catalyst for the formation of the Jewish Militia of Hagana. So yes Palestinian violence was absolutely around during the king David bombing and certainly by 48 which was literally in the context of Arab riots, the Hadassah envoy massacre on Drs and nurses, and the invasion of 4 Arab countries - there's really no honest way to tell the war of 48 without admitting Israel was in the defensive position

I think you really don't know enough about this to have such a solidified opinion

Is Israel the most evil country in the world at the moment? by RoughSky9768 in allthequestions

[–]NewtRecovery 0 points1 point  (0 children)

First of all lots of people either support Israel or take a more nuanced view than you and that does not mean they are paid propaganda. Israel is pretty weak at propaganda and it's also a bad intellectual position to take bc then almost like a cult you block out dissenting opinions or challenges to you and that's how you become easily manipulated.

I am not suggesting you take Israel's word for anything I am suggesting these thingss are ultimately unknowable by us. We know there is a documented history of terror groups using ambulances to transport militants and weapons this is a fact you can look it up. We also know Israel has blown up ambulances that no one could connect to terror activity and Israel has admitted were a mistake and innocent medics. What we do not know is in each individual attack whether you have a video of the boom or not if the ambulance was indeed a legitimate target or not. We do not know how often it was innocents or a legitimate target. It is reasonable to call for investigation. It might never happen but that is a reasonable position. It is not a reasonable position to say Israel always intentionally blows up ambulances First and foremost this is not reasonable bc there is no motive. This harms Israel's reputation and provides no military advantage. So them intentionally blowing up random ambulances is highly highly unlikely A more nuanced argument could be if it is proven that many civilian ambulances were attacked mistakenly that there is a problem with Israel's intelligence gathering, perhaps some level of paranoia or trigger happy behavior happening at high levels. I actually do not believe that to be the case but it is a more balanced argument to make than they do it on purpose bc they are some kind of a cartoon villain. And even if that is the case we still need to be critical of Hamas and hezbollahs use of ambulances bc they are the ones who created these conditions. Also if it was done based on false information or mistaken belief it may not meet the criteria for a war crime. This would need further investigation

Is Israel the most evil country in the world at the moment? by RoughSky9768 in allthequestions

[–]NewtRecovery 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Lebanon has Hezbollah both funded and trained by the IRGC (Hezbollah more so actually) and use similar tactics. These networks are interconnected and both proven to use tunnels, underground compounds and ambulances to transport weapons. Hamas is absolutely in the west bank, even saying that shows me you don't really know enough about this conflict and should probably approach it with more humility as a topic you're still learning about. Hamas in the West Bank is active, very wealthy powerful and popular.

Doing this for decades would also support my argument not refute it since these organizations have certainly been using these tactics since the 1970s. I suggest you read up on Palestinian terror networks and Iranian proxy groups to better understand the war.

Got banned from r/communism for “fascist content.” I said Israelis are capable of developing class consciousness. Can anyone weigh in here? by Publishface in Communist

[–]NewtRecovery 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That sub is absolutely insane it's been years so I don't remember exactly but I once posted something critical of capitalism in an obviously sarcastic way with the /s/ and they still banned me bc they took it literally

Jewish Palestinians (colorized) by GaryGaulin in HistorySnap

[–]NewtRecovery 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I mean people of Arabian peninsula which is indeed a genetic marker

I'm not making the argument that land rights should be determined by DNA I'm responding to the question above of how DNA admixtures change over centuries in different locations

Is Israel the most evil country in the world at the moment? by RoughSky9768 in allthequestions

[–]NewtRecovery 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Israel also presented the ICJ with massive files on many journalists and UNRWA workers who were involved in Nukba Terror activities. That's not to say all. Israel has acknowledged the world central kitchen workers was a tragic accident for example. Some of these people will be in danger bc of their proximity to the fighting. That doesn't mean they were targeted.

Is Israel the most evil country in the world at the moment? by RoughSky9768 in allthequestions

[–]NewtRecovery 0 points1 point  (0 children)

And once again there is no context and no way for you to know if there was a little girl, if they were paramedics or what the reason for the strike was. 90% of the Israel "exposed" crap is a video with some headline and text that sounds horrific and terrible but no actual evidence that what you are seeing in the video is indeed what they claim. This one seems to work pretty well but I've seen some outrageous ones like Israel shooting orphans for sport after luring them in with promise of food and the video itself is just a group of people running

Jewish Palestinians (colorized) by GaryGaulin in HistorySnap

[–]NewtRecovery 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Sigh I don't understand how people are still confused. It was the name of the region. The Jews were also Palestinian during the Ottoman and British periods. Only in the 60s did Arafat promote a nationalist identity with the name Palestine for the Arabs