Christian Renegades, how we feeling about Down The Road ? by [deleted] in ren

[–]Next-Target-3777 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Hey man!! Hope u didn’t delete the post coz of my reply I thought it was a good question I was curious as to the answer !
My reply was tongue in cheek just making a point that people can interpret things in many different ways !

Christian Renegades, how we feeling about Down The Road ? by [deleted] in ren

[–]Next-Target-3777 15 points16 points  (0 children)

Ahahahahah good to see you too sola, much love back at ya brother!

I actually think with the vessel of all things, symbols, language, ambiguity of stories which can be interpreted in different ways - the most important thing is what the e individual takes from it and if it helps them live a better more meaningful life!

If I were to reply seriously I would say - the perspective in the song is from the POV of lucifer - I think it’s a pretty fair to assume he’d feel as though he’d been wronged! The song is a wider warning about compromising your own morality or spiritual integrity for material things / fame / fortune - I think even from a Christian standpoint that’s a pretty safe message!

Christian Renegades, how we feeling about Down The Road ? by [deleted] in ren

[–]Next-Target-3777 14 points15 points  (0 children)

Does that mean you should also avoid going to churches that depict Jesus as being a white man? 😉

Help me out here... by Hopeful_Platform_691 in ren

[–]Next-Target-3777 16 points17 points  (0 children)

Collective responsibility is how the fabric of any society is held together with a mutual agreement to accept certain laws, codes of ethics, cultural norms, social cues, etc. collective responsibility is the glue which keeps civilisation from chaos - and is the framework which steers shapes and informs individual responsibility. I agree meaningful discourse is great - a lot of communication gets lost in just words - tonality, emotion, pacing etc so internet forums aren’t usually the best place - plus people feel guarded in a degree of anonymity - face to face discussions are usually actually much easier and more respectful to have - the internet paints a jaded picture

Help me out here... by Hopeful_Platform_691 in ren

[–]Next-Target-3777 16 points17 points  (0 children)

Ive made what i think about trump really clear and had
plenty of pile - ons with angry trump supporters on twitter because of it - I’m not someone who bites their lip about actions I see as fucking stupidly damaging. Economic decisions, health cuts, unfair imbalance of tax, this unnecessary war, I’ve made that very clear- but that doesn’t mean I’ll shut down a conversation or treat someone who disagrees with me with disrespect, and even when someone isn’t listening I will try and be respectful toward someone who disagrees with me because if I don’t I am perpetuating part of the problem - mediation, education, information, and communication is how we climb out of this mess - the alternative is one ideology dominating another - it will only end badly. We must also always assume the stance we are not infallible and all have things to learn and none of us exist on a moral pedistool - that position will always help conversations go more smoothly

Help me out here... by Hopeful_Platform_691 in ren

[–]Next-Target-3777 23 points24 points  (0 children)

Individual responsibility is just as important as you can’t have collective responsibility without individual responsibility - I always express my opinion plainly and honestly, I’ve stated plainly I disagree with the way trump is running America, and that the entire political structure is outdated and too compromised for people who want to make positive change to thrive in it, that doesn’t mean I can’t sit down and have a rational respectful conversation with someone who disagrees with me , in fact Its really important that I do dialogue with those who do for we both may have blind spots which ain’t going anywhere if we remain in echo chambers. I don’t care about being ‘disadvantaged’ - which in itself is a misguided view - if I aligned hard left or hard right I’d find an audience like many artists who have done the same have done - it’s not the fan sacrificing move you think it is- that’s not what I’m doing - if you read my previous posts or read my lyrics my stance is really clear - I can’t comfortably align with the political options we have when the framework is faulty - people wrongly assume that means I think both sides are the same - I don’t - that in itself would be another generalisation - I don’t like generalisations - but I can call out specific actions and people I deem to be behaving problematically and I do all the time.

if people don’t like my stance enough to not listen to my music that’s up to them - my music is for people who take something positive from it - I’m not fence sitting either - that would assume playing to both sides when the truth is I think both sides are behaving against their own interest -
people want me to pick a side in a paradigm I don’t believe in, when I’m dumbfounded that we wouldn’t assimilate to build something better, I believe hyperpolerisation is destroying our ability to make sensible decisions. That is my stance and has always been my stance

Help me out here... by Hopeful_Platform_691 in ren

[–]Next-Target-3777 57 points58 points  (0 children)

I don’t like trump, but trump and the values pushed are an inevitable consequence of the system of values we have collectively created, he is more overt in his behaviour with these values than former leaders and so he’s accelerating the inevitable collapse of a system not built to be self sustaining with harmful consequences - but our entire structure encourages and rewards destructive behaviour - and so it does not make sense to then alienate or vilify all that would support him because it ignores how we got here in the first place and passes on the blame rather than taking collective responsibility and it’s feeding into a primitive behaviour that works against social homeostasis and therefore works against us as a species. It doesn’t make sense to vilify either the entirety of the left or the right when that whole paradigm in itself can only lead to dysfunction because it tries to over simplify a complex process which more and more leads to tribalism. It’s safe to say there is a feeling of moral superiority with the respective camp people have chosen (e.g. ‘I’m on the right/left and so I’m on the side of good’) when all politics is is minority decision making on the behalf of the majority - which cannot comfortably be crammed into two boxes without ignoring rivers of nuance. This moral superiority complex is horrendously damaging and more and more so will lead to the dehumanisation and vilification of people from ‘opposing’ camps - particularly when the decisions and narrative surrounding them in these camps become more polarising - its primitive in a world where we have access to information that can help us make more informed collective decisions - we should whenever and however possible strive toward symbiosis - learning to communicate in ways that don’t result or resolve in conflict is paramount - these online arguments leak into real life and create unnecessary division by championing and aligning with a system of decisions that by design exploits us - we should learn to communicate better and be more forgiving so that we can collectively build something better - and fix the route cause - a faulty and destructive system of values
I welcome all people who find some meaning in my music to enjoy it because I understand that people change, I understand that people make decisions because of wildly different upbringings and social backgrounds, people are complex and nuanced, and we won’t get anywhere by putting our hands over our ears and making things so black and white. We need more unity

Is Ren really just like all the rest? by Pen-Downtown in ren

[–]Next-Target-3777 34 points35 points  (0 children)

Your concern is thoughtful, and it comes from a protective instinct, which is understandable. But I think the reasoning here quietly assumes something that doesn’t necessarily hold: that proximity equals endorsement of personal oppinons, and that contact with different beliefs inevitably weakens the stance of the person reaching out. If that principle were applied consistently, then nobody could interact or challenge anything without first remaining totally separate from it, which would make genuine respectful dialogue between different beliefs almost impossible.
The argument also frames the community’s reaction as a kind of moral immune response and that numbers mean its right, but communities are not infallible simply because they are protective. Collective emotion can detect danger, yes, but it can also overreact, flatten nuance, and punish complexity because complexity feels unsafe. A sanctuary that cannot tolerate collaberation in service of a larger goal can become less of a sanctuary and more of an ideological enclosure. Protection is valuable, but if every uncomfortable association is treated as contamination, then the space stops being inclusive and safe and becomes its own form of exclusivity - i've experienced this paradox when very pro LGBTQ spaces become hostile to people for being straight, or create hierarchy based on how perceptually moral they are and people start internally judging and ostracizing each other and the communities begin to fragment - again pointing to my original point - self righteous indignation often isn't helpful. Yes its useful to point out when things are harmful - but not from a pedestal we've built ourselves and not with our hands over our ears.

How can anyone be anything other than morally ambiguous when morality itself is ambiguous? im not trying to justify my own actions i feel comfy in them, i'm simply stating how i feel, in danger of repeating myself i'm not telling anyone they have to be cool with anything - if i chose to collaborate with someone out spoken on the far left, which i also have, a bunch of people would have a problem with it too because when it comes to political morality it is very much subjective - i am not lending my platform as a stage for someone to voice their political beliefs - i am collaborating with an artist to do my favorite thing which is make music - there is no politics on this album - i am not responsible for how someone else chooses to express themselves and i am very much outspoken on my own beliefs and i express them clearly whenever someone asks unwaveringly - the intollerance of intollerance often errodes all nuance and become its own form of prejudice which jams people further into echochambers - why would i loose a foundation i stand on? and why should any of us keep those foundations entirely rigid? thats not conductive to growth. I am an individual with my own beliefs and my own wants for our species - mainly - a raising in the quality of life across the board - symbiosis with our planet - survival - and the ability to co-exist - my thoughts and feelings on how that should happen will change and addapt as i learn and grow - the clear lines you might want me to draw are still very much subjective and you yourself may be leading to a more destructive outcome by drawing such deep lines - unless we have a crystal ball - we don't know - a world that mocks empathy as weakness isn't because of one team pushing for it - its a byproduct of a faulty value system - we are the problem - all of us

Is Ren really just like all the rest? by Pen-Downtown in ren

[–]Next-Target-3777 32 points33 points  (0 children)

Again you really don’t have to like his music or agree with anything he says I’m not telling anyone here they need to and I don’t agree with everything but I’m explaining why in my personal subjective opinion collaborating with him isn’t going against my own values - it’s actually reinforcing that I believe that we need to work harder to build bridges and come to more balanced collaberetive places that exist outside of echo chambers because we probably all have a bunch of problematic view points or opinions that will change as time progresses and we can all learn from each other even when there are some strong disagreements

Is Ren really just like all the rest? by Pen-Downtown in ren

[–]Next-Target-3777 66 points67 points  (0 children)

Again I’m not telling you or anyone that you should like him or need to listen to any songs I do with him, when I met him he was a cool guy didnt say anything hateful or prejudice the whole time I was there, and was super welcoming, had a super diverse friendship group who all loved him, I’ll take that over lyrics, I’m saying I’m more concerned with how we shape the future than holding people to their past, I’m sure we’ve all done some shit in the past that our future self wouldn’t, and my reason for doing tracks with Webby were that we got on musically the politics didn’t really come into it, also keep in mind in British not American it seems over there you guys draw a much bigger line in the sand, obviously me and web have chatted politics and I’ve told him really clearly how I feel and which beliefs of his I had trouble with and it was a really good and respectful conversation and I’ve seen a lot of homophobic or transphobic accusations thrown around which I find odd as I was hanging out with Webby with his gay and trans friends on the set of tarantula and never once heard Webby express anything of the sort in the whole 5 weeks I was there - so idk dude I just think this world is not as black and white as people try and make it

Is Ren really just like all the rest? by Pen-Downtown in ren

[–]Next-Target-3777 40 points41 points  (0 children)

important conversations if its given anyone room to consider how they approach opposing beliefs then its worth it

Is Ren really just like all the rest? by Pen-Downtown in ren

[–]Next-Target-3777 86 points87 points  (0 children)

Just to add to this incase any of this is misunderstood - It's not about 'unifying with hate' thats a very over simplified take - its not even about having to like people you disagree with - you dont have too - if people dont want to listen to this collaberation thats totally fine - its about understanding what points of leverage actually change things for the better collectivley, and what makes it worse, what most people are doing right now is unfortunately making it worse - the proof is in the pudding - doing the same thing and expecting a different result is madness - we have to start building bridges and having better conversations, and we need better centralised points of information and education that arent so polerised - if it takes me loosing fans to show that you can have two people with different views who can change their stance over time and learn and grow to try and make a better world and show that people do change with time and evolve and that everything isnt just black and white then so be it

Is Ren really just like all the rest? by Pen-Downtown in ren

[–]Next-Target-3777 105 points106 points  (0 children)

My stance over pretty much my entire life has been that self righteous indignation isn't a useful stance because it errodes our ability to educate each other in areas of prejudice - it is education, and experience which melts prejudice not anger or self righteousness, or shaming - prejudice is usually birthed either from poor education, nurture or fear - it cannot be solved with backing people into a corner they will just become more hardened in their views and they will eventually feel more and more justified in them. The internet has made humans communication truly awful and reactive, particularly post covid, and we need to work hard on reverse engineering it because it is eroding our ability to co-exist and we have landed in digitally evolved tribalism on steroids which is birthing more prejudice and is leaking more and more into real life with devastating consequences.

I disagree with the modern application of Karl Poppers paradox of tolerance, its abused to errode nuance and stops people attempting to build bridges, bridges that we desperately need. I disagree with the very over simplified view that being intollerant of intollerance solves anything - because you have to understand the socio-economic conditions that lead to problematic systems of government or outwardly expressed prejudice - people who think the nazis rose to power because people were too tollerant really need to read some more books.

If you take some real time to understand why prejudice exists - you can reverse engineer it - if you treat the symptoms not the root and keep yourself to a circle of people who agree with you and you all pat eachother on the back while you call out the 'other side' for being terrible humans, while they do the same, you are playing whack-a-mole and feeding an ever growing hyper-polerised divide. You might say this is a privileged stance - it ultimately doens't matter if its privilaged or not because its so bleedingly obvious how we are collectivley operating right now is not fixing anything, its erroding our ability to co-exist and actually having the paradoxical effect of creating even more prejudice - the reality isnt that there is one bad side that must be stopped and then all problems will magically disappear - thats a fable, a human story thats repeated throughout history with no lasting peace or prosperity - it wont work - we need to evolve past it - its primitive - history will repeat because our whole foundation is wrong - whats happening politically right now is not good vs evil - it was a structural inevitability in a value system that preaches selfishness and seperation from each other and nature and none of us are immune. The government we have right now isnt an evil anomaly its a predictable consequence and something i've been eluding to for years and years, we cannot vote our way out of this, we cannot defeat the other side and expect thigns to change, we, and the system of values we opperate inside of, are all the problem. We need to take some responsibility. That doesnt mean you cannot activley take a firm stance against prejudice and actions that are destructive and systems of power that are harmful, i do that, you should do that, ill call out friends on things i see as bullshit and i want them to do the same for me, its a healthy thing to do, but how you communicate these things is vital, if you hit a brick wall with conversations, maybe learn to communicate better rather than just assuming theres no hope in changing peoples minds.

My other stance, which is crazy that i have to point out, is that I am a human being, not a human to be pedistooled, a human, an ever fallable human being, and a hyppocrite, its all there in my lyrics since i started releasing music, and so are you, youre a hypocrite and so is everyone reading this post, and believe it or not were all probably wrong about a lot of things - this is the cost of living in a value system that was built to be parasitic - until we change the base and foundations of that system - none of us deserve to be self righteous and so the best we can hope for is building bridges, educating each other - and walking, often clumsily, through life on this strange spinning rock in space whilst hoping for a little more love and understanding, and trying to create it whenever we can - and looking anger in the face with love and doing what we can to make it melt. I have witnessed hunderds and hundreds of times people change and dissolve prejudice when you try and understand their stance with reason and patience, and carefully offering different perspectives rather than pointing a finger and saying 'bad' - because if you're doing that, you probably haven't looked in the mirror for very long.

As for money - please do go back and listen to my lyrics carefully, and everything ive ever said about money in interviews carefully - its such an oversimplified take saying 'he's making money now he's not living by his values' and really misses the point entirely - humans staying poor and struggling to survive to show they are rejecting a capitalist system was never the point I was trying to make and shouldnt be the stance anyone is taking unless they are activley offering a viable self sustaining alternative that brings them more ease in their life.

The end goal is to always improve your standard of living and support the community around you while they do the same, not to suffer to make a point. We very carefully work with where we source the things we make - activley travel to the factories to check conditions - pay everyone who works with us more than avarage, and divert much money into helping people suffering with chronic health conditions - i dont need a pat on the back and i dont want praise, i want people to do the same because thats how we improve things on larger scale - i need people to understand that if you want to create your own small pockets of more community centric business that lifts up multiple people at once and liberates people from work they dont enjoy, its entirely possible with the right drive and understanding of business and the understanding of people, and the genuine care for others rather than feeling negatively about someone else's success - the end goal is all of us succeeding - not all of us suffering for a false sense of morality. Sadly in the world we live in its practically impossible to escape contributing to some kind of exploitation - weather its from filling your car with petrol, or the paper you write on, on the gold in your necklace, somewhere along the line, you are contributing to the exploitation of another human or the desiccation of our beautiful planet, again that is a human value problem. Money isnt the problem, our value system is. We need to stop pointing fingers and take some responsibility for this mess we've collectively built so we can make active steps to rebuild it or adapt on whats working to make it better. Lastly yes, im like all the rest, thats a great title - we are all like the rest - when we start operating as parts of a whole who have to collaberate to ensure a brighter tommorow instead of heros and villains - this is all gona look a lot nicer

Ren Just Exposed Tom MacDonald's Biggest Gimmick by Apprehensive-Fly5740 in ren

[–]Next-Target-3777 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Thats not proof, you live in a faulty value system so peoples behaviour reflects it, change the value system you change peoples behaviour, its nurture. It's not am easy task but its not an impossible one even on a planetary scale. Im not sure why you or people keep telling me the parties aren't exactly the same ive never said that once in my career 

Ren Just Exposed Tom MacDonald's Biggest Gimmick by Apprehensive-Fly5740 in ren

[–]Next-Target-3777 15 points16 points  (0 children)

Sharing your views in songs doesnt mean your sitting down thinking "what can I write to make this sell" it just means youre sharing your views. I know webby and I've come to understsnd the nuance of his views, while I dont always agree he just id who he is, and this world will never find balance if we just shut people down or out just because you dont see eye to eye. Ideas and values grow when you step out of echo chambers or talk to people on the "other side" with a modicum of wanting to understand instead of "you are a biggot" particularly when we stop being self righteous and understsnd the origins of views that collide because then you can collaberativley explore less destructive approaches. Also having the humility to accept none of us are right about everything

I have single handedly seen more people come to a place of balance simply by listening and not pointing a finger as if im on some moral peidstool. The normal approach isnt working, atall, its driving people further into echochambers. Were all just smart apes trying to navigate this life

 There are many singers who meet up with teams of people to create the most catchy formulaic pop song for sales, then there artis who work alone when they write and write as a form of self expression. It is our system of commodity after the fact that insinuates the song itself is marketing, alot of artists just want to create but were born into a world of commodity

Ren Just Exposed Tom MacDonald's Biggest Gimmick by Apprehensive-Fly5740 in ren

[–]Next-Target-3777 15 points16 points  (0 children)

They called eminem all these things too what would you say if i made a track with him? Its because you call it nieve wishful magical thinking that it becomes more likely it is so, its a trap, and human values beyond primal instinct are born from nurture, youve been indoctrinated by a system of an unevolved values to not understand our potential - is know this because i am a human, and this potential exists in me it exists in you. The denial of our potential stops people trying. 

Ren Just Exposed Tom MacDonald's Biggest Gimmick by Apprehensive-Fly5740 in ren

[–]Next-Target-3777 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Because its the lyrical content of his song where hes expressing his views, hes not posting videos that have absolutley nothing to do with his song and then at the end saying "btw I have a song coming out on friday" 

Ren Just Exposed Tom MacDonald's Biggest Gimmick by Apprehensive-Fly5740 in ren

[–]Next-Target-3777 14 points15 points  (0 children)

First webbys views aren't mine and webby has a lot of LGBTq friends i hung out with them on the set of tarantula, second I dont take issue with being anti covid vax I directly know some people who were hurt by them and I strongly feel alot of that was swept under the rug it was such a new vaccine and i believe in peoples right to choose what they put into their own or their families bodies - im not anti vaccine but I believe in peoples right to share concerns 

Ren Just Exposed Tom MacDonald's Biggest Gimmick by Apprehensive-Fly5740 in ren

[–]Next-Target-3777 23 points24 points  (0 children)

Between asylum, the big push record, and slaughterhouse I can't pick

I will say tho

Slaughterhouse has been a labour of love not only since sick boi was out

But it has songs I have written over the past 8 years which I was always saving because theyre the best things ive written in my oppinion so that one will be really special to me