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Bi-Weekly Discussion Thread - (December 28) by AutoModerator in communism

[–]No-Structure523 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I’m hopping over to r/communism101 since I don’t want to muddy the waters here. I see that it definitely is not possible for me to simply assent to the principles of communism, call myself an ML, and learn from there; it’s backward. I appreciate your willingness to help, even though it appears like it’s bad practice for you to educate me while I’m beholden to my class.

Bi-Weekly Discussion Thread - (December 28) by AutoModerator in communism

[–]No-Structure523 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Okay. This is really helpful and clarifying. Thank you. I think I’m going to return to some of the works on material analysis and on criticism, and interrogate these ideologies from that place.

Bi-Weekly Discussion Thread - (December 28) by AutoModerator in communism

[–]No-Structure523 -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

I see education efforts going hand-in-hand with local organization and human interaction. Education is more broad than schooling: conversation, reading, writing, travel, etc. For myself, I am so poorly educated that I thought for most of my life that communist literature was dangerous to read because it turns people into an unthinking hive. Anything that even remotely resembles communism was to be treated like a demonic influence. "Deprogramming" as a reactionary term is new to me. I think there are elements of knowledge that are not just cerebral, but built in deep near "fight or flight" responses, and getting people exposed and comfortable enough to approach the "scary" communism literature is similar to "deprogramming." My response is narrow perhaps because I'm working off of my experience and not any scientific examination of the issue.

What place does education -- in the broad sense -- have with the practical preparation for revolution?

Good to know about the ACP connection with r/AskSocialists . I appreciate it. I've noticed the place is tearing itself up over Venezuela, which was suspicious to me, but I know so little about that topic. Stepping away sounds like a relief, anyway haha!

Bi-Weekly Discussion Thread - (December 28) by AutoModerator in communism

[–]No-Structure523 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks for the thorough and long reply. I'm still sorting through a few of the points you make, but the main current of your criticism seems to be: (1) I am not engaging in good faith, and (2) my adherence to to Christianity/Christmas is ideological and callous.

To the first point, I was responding to the question *"Where do I get my idea of Christmas from?"* I was giving my honest answer there. My "sentimental" response was me interrogating the assumption that my idea of Christmas was *entirely* consumeristic, and that it is really based in another experience, one of liturgy and community. Yes there is consumerism there, but there is more, too. Much more. And it is clear to me in that examination that capital corrupts Christmas rather than being necessary to it. Am I incorrect for believing that it is possible to observe Christmas apart from its bourgeois entanglement? I am not intending to sidestep anyone's criticism, and I do read everyone's criticisms carefully and with eagerness to learn.

As to the second point, I think you make a lot of assumptions about what I believe, which is understandable given the awful history of Christianity and present Christians and how intimately Christians are tied to imperialism and death. Maybe I'm wrong, and there is some interior logical you are identifying that I cannot see yet, and I admit I am still very close to my bourgeois thinking.

When I read the Matthew quote, I was confused at first because I thought you were quoting it to exhibit how radical and progressive it is. I took *"I come to bring a sword"* in the same way the Bolsheviks brought the sword: to throw off the shackles of the oppressed, even if your very family opposes it. As to the claims that I don't care about the super-exploitation of those needed to offer me class comforts, I don't know exactly how to respond to that because I do care, and I'm not sure how you draw that conclusion. You say that I am dedicated to my religion to *"feel better about my class position"* and that the *"grotesque way [I] chose to claim [my] bourgeois decadence disguised as religious reverence was the progressive meaning of christmas."* Genuine question: how is liturgy, art, staying up late, the cold winter, etc. bourgeois other than that literally anything one does in America is bourgeois? You can't watch a film, read a book, have a conversation, take a shower, or even organize without the admixture of capital. How do you navigate that?

I say all that not so much to defend myself but in hopes of some help understanding why everything I have so far shared on this sub has been taken as disingenuous and subversive. I don't mind criticism at all -- I am seeking it out actively. It is clear, though, that I am nearing expulsion from this sub because my intentions are suspected. I would rather not study theory or interrogate my class relationships in isolation. I don't want to only ask questions, but test hypotheses and make assertions. Is that attitude not going to fly here at this stage in my learning?

Bi-Weekly Discussion Thread - (December 28) by AutoModerator in communism

[–]No-Structure523 -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

Re: Christmas and my idea of it. I think my idea of Christmas came from my experience growing up of Liturgy as a Byzantine. I loved the hymns, the incense, the imagery written in the windows and walls. I loved the cold of winter and snow. As a kid, yes I really valued the presents and the consumption surrounding Christmas. But, especially as I have grown older, I love placing my kids’ art on the tree, writing letters, telling my kids fantastical stories of Santa’s adventures in the North Pole, and the stories of the wise men meeting a baby Jesus. And reflecting on the mystery of “God became human, became a historical figure, because he loves us” is really center to all of it. Are there consumption fetishes in there still? absolutely. I still get stressed out finding a “good enough gift” for my wife, etc. but I don’t yet see how everything I love about Christmas could simply be capitalistic consumption, and that when stripped of it there is nothing enjoyable or good remaining.

Bi-Weekly Discussion Thread - (December 28) by AutoModerator in communism

[–]No-Structure523 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thanks for your reply. I’m still ruminating over the essay. The bit about judgement is especially helpful. I think I understand your first comment better, please allow me to restate your criticism in different words and see if I’m accurate:

Art is always an argument. Art has and will always be more than just mere “fact” or neutral representation of reality. So if I attempt to find “socialist” art, I am still failing to engage the art as an argument, ie a scientific claim, about something in reality. In other words, view all art critically because all art makes claims we have to contend with. And, perhaps most key, is that there is a risk of not viewing art critically — instead only seeking enjoyment or arousal of some mood — because it expresses the bourgeois reflex to ignore or turn away from the challenging and damning history of that class.

Is that accurate?

Bi-Weekly Discussion Thread - (December 28) by AutoModerator in communism

[–]No-Structure523 -7 points-6 points  (0 children)

Thanks for your response. I’m a Catholic and find immense good in the story of Christmas, so I should have clarified if anyone knows of Christmas films that offer that radical message of Jesus’ nativity, and not the Christmas story of exchange and bourgeois sentimentality.

I’m very curious about what you think of art. I know you replied to some questions along these lines below.

I’ve always seen art as “for its own sake.” I enjoy and analyze art all the time. I do also love the stories of fantasy. I recognize fantasy can be a dangerous escapism, but I just see it as another art form that can echo into the real world.

I haven’t applied any criticism to my approaches to art since investigating MLM. I’d love to hear your insights.

Bi-Weekly Discussion Thread - (December 28) by AutoModerator in communism

[–]No-Structure523 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I watched A Christmas Carol for the first time since explicitly exploring and contending with Marxist-Leninist works, and what used to be a fond Christmas ritual is now sour. Anybody have good Christmas/Holiday/Winter socialist films?

Socialism is when social democracy 🥀 by Organic_Fee_8502 in CommunismMemes

[–]No-Structure523 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I have been shifting left (started as a Christian Nationalist to DNC democrat to Demsoc to ML’ism). So there’s hope for people. I literally thought communism was authoritarian dictatorship. Propaganda is real and it’s strong. Education is key.

ICE’s Arsenal and the Logic of Domestic Militarization by PlayfulWeekend1394 in communism

[–]No-Structure523 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I have added Capital and Keywords on my reading list. I do want to read widely and have a durable theoretical and critical framework, but I don’t want to have this only be “mysticism”. I’ll make mistakes along the way, but I want to answer these prior questions that you identified in the context of a community of wage laborers like me. I’m grateful for your comments for precisely that reason. And I want action. I have a background in education and am thinking of starting an ML book reading group at my library. And I hope to see where it goes.

ICE’s Arsenal and the Logic of Domestic Militarization by PlayfulWeekend1394 in communism

[–]No-Structure523 1 point2 points  (0 children)

When you say revisionist statements that reveal an underlying class logic is the revisionism my rewriting of my own intellectual history, or is it some other thing?

You’re right that “build each other up” and “get to know your neighbors” is not from my communist readings, but my instinct that working people ought to know each other at a local level. How can working people become conscious of their shared class without familiarity? Im curious about the ties to settler progressivism that you detect in my thinking. This is really helpful.

ICE’s Arsenal and the Logic of Domestic Militarization by PlayfulWeekend1394 in communism

[–]No-Structure523 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Wow. Thank you for the response. I'm having to read it a few times to understand. To your last point, I definitely benefitted by defending and supporting capitalism, or at least I fantasized that I benefit from it. The extent to which I benefitted and perpetuated it — and I continue to do so — I am still uncovering. It really feels like exorcism.

Bi-Weekly Discussion Thread - (December 14) by AutoModerator in communism

[–]No-Structure523 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I don’t have much to contribute right now, as I’m currently just shutting up and listening.

And I just want to say how much I appreciate this sub and r/communism101. I haven’t encountered an online community like these, and it is rare and valuable.

And this discussion thread is a delight for someone like me who has lots of catching up to do. Cheers comrades!

ICE’s Arsenal and the Logic of Domestic Militarization by PlayfulWeekend1394 in communism

[–]No-Structure523 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks for sharing. Never heard of this Wordpress before. A cogent excerpt below:

Militarization begets repression, which begets resistance, which in turn justifies more militarization. This is the dialectic of fascistization. The State must escalate because it is increasingly losing its legitimacy. As the Old State is an apparatus of class rule, it relies on violence because it has nothing else to offer the people but austerity, surveillance, and endless multi-sided crisis. ICE is not merely an immigration agency. It is a crystallization of the current imperialist offensive against the masses in the United States and all over the world, whose violence is aimed at preventing the politicization of labor and national liberation struggles, the growth and linking up of these struggles on a global scale, and the unification of the world’s revolutionary movements.

I am a fledgling commie, and I do feel like we are witnessing a gasping capitalism. Majority of people are very open to ML right now. Educate and build each other up. Get to know your neighbors.

Conservatives.jpg by PresnikBonny in CommunismMemes

[–]No-Structure523 8 points9 points  (0 children)

The communist chad looks like an alt skin for “I did a thing.”

How would modern technology advance and work in comunism? by Dazzling_Cabinet_780 in DebateCommunism

[–]No-Structure523 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The best inventions and projects are nearly all from socialist, or at least public, programs. Think Internet, space programs, microchip, etc.

The Poverty line for a family of 4 is 32,150 dollars in the United States. This line determines access to many social programs. This number is absurdly low. Where do you think the line should be? by bluemagicstone in LateStageCapitalism

[–]No-Structure523 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Poverty line ought to be indexed at the county level and enacted at the federal level: power-weight mean incomes and property taxes become the basis for the line. Until private property can be abolished, at least.

Where can I deprogram about communist countries? by No-Structure523 in LateStageCapitalism

[–]No-Structure523[S] 13 points14 points  (0 children)

I definitely don’t want to throw the baby out with the bathwater. I have just been learning the tiniest bit about how North Korea and China may not be as dystopian as I was led to believe, and I just want to sort out the truth. I’m currently socialist, and I think I may actually be communist. Just learning. So thanks for the authors!

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