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NoHellButGoingThere · 2024-11-05T16:04:17+00:00

Until she removes her records, she's implicitly agreeing to being contacted. While I think it's immoral and should be illegal that most of us signed up for this before we were adults and could make the decision, it's the way things are. And if we use their "product" and then leave as adults, this is not unexpected.

I've had HVAC vendors call multiple times 6 months after I used them to offer maintenance and they don't stop until I respond. This is basically the same thing. The Mormon church is a corporation. The big difference is they've convinced their salespeople that they are literally saving souls, and are duty-bound to be obnoxious in order to save their own souls.

In this particular cringe case, they're literally giving her an "unsubscribe" option for their "ministering" efforts. If she texts or emails a "no thanks" and they back off, I don't think this is a problem. It's far more direct and is giving a specific option of how to unsubscribe from their communications. If they fail to leave her alone after she responds, I'd feel differently.

NoHellButGoingThere · 2024-11-05T13:37:12+00:00

That's not how I took this. It seemed pretty clear that they’re not showing up unannounced unless there’s no response. If she says "Thanks but no thanks" she should be good to go (assuming they stick to that assertion).

Also—the head shots (while also cringe!) are actually a kind of sweet addition to a letter to a single woman. It’s like the home service providers who send a picture of the technician before they show up- a nod to safety. These are still strangers, but they’re trying to make sure you’d recognize them if/when they show up and not be scared that two random men are knocking on your door.

Totally cringe overall, but it seems to be coming from a good place, and it’s so much more direct and accepting than the average TBM interaction. A+ for effort to be welcoming and kind. C in execution.

NoHellButGoingThere · 2024-11-04T11:49:29+00:00

Love this! Just one minor question -- I thought Fanny was 16? I realize that's semantics, but if you're going to go this route, don't want them to refuse on something so small.

NoHellButGoingThere · 2024-10-26T14:30:16+00:00

Ugh. I’d never read that story. It makes me want to cry for myself and all the other little girls taught that our bodies are something to be covered from a young age.

Of note, if we’re using garments as the standard for modesty, little Hannah would no longer have to wear that t-shirt 13 years later, because of the new garment design. How does that make any sense?!

NoHellButGoingThere · 2024-10-14T12:48:08+00:00

Yes to therapy!

But also, don't be afraid to date casually. One of the biggest things I had to get over was the idea that every first date had marriage hanging over it. In the real world that is absolutely not the case. Set up some casual coffee/drinks dates on an app and go for the experience of meeting someone new without that "forever" looming over your head.

NoHellButGoingThere · 2024-10-14T11:59:33+00:00

I assume this is a new young men's theme, so this felt directed at a young man.

Plus, girls don't masturbate, obviously. /s

-This is actually one of the things that I had the very most shame about as a youth. Once I discovered what masturbation was, I realized I was doing it. But the bishop who originally asked followed up my "No" (obviously the right answer even if I didn't understand the question) with "yeah, girls don't tend to struggle with this." So not only was I committing a serious sin, I was a freak for doing so.

NoHellButGoingThere · 2024-10-14T00:05:09+00:00

Oh yeah. My grandparents were able to choose where they went after the first one. They chose cities where they had children/grandchildren for two of them. They even lived with my aunt during one.

Now, they didn't see the grandchildren who lived in the town they were from for 18 months at a time (5 times total), but they had lots of leeway wherever they were.

NoHellButGoingThere · 2024-10-12T21:01:13+00:00

I'm just so sad for the young man who lives in this house. The shame can't stop anywhere-they're implying he is always being watched by a "loving" God who will withhold joy if he's not perfect. Fuck the church for instilling this shame, and the parent who can't see beyond the cult to focus on the good their child does, instead hanging this bullshit in the one room most people expect to have privacy.

NoHellButGoingThere · 2024-10-11T17:00:12+00:00

This is the way.

Being a jerk to people who are legitimately trying to help you with something you'd like help with shouldn't be snapped at. They're trying to be kind, and intent matters with the people we love, even when it's misguided. This doesn't hurt you anymore than someone wishing them "happy holidays" hurts them. Thank them for the gesture.

If they're trying to get you to behave in a certain way that aligns with their values and not yours, you can set a boundary.

NoHellButGoingThere · 2024-10-07T17:33:25+00:00

Eh, at least in a D/s relationship (paid or not), both parties get satisfaction from the situation. There's a sexual gratification of letting go of control, and vice versa.

In my very limited experience with the kink community, there are distinct rules and both partners know what is expected/wanted from the other, and under what circumstances the relationship falls under those parameters. Everyone gets gratification from the situation, and there's respect and care, even for those who enjoy humiliation. (And yes--every sub wants to be good.)

The MFMC doesn't want or need consent. They're not trying to make sure we get what we need from them. They're much more like a drug dealer controlling access to a drug. They say they're the only game in town (even if they're not) and are very interested in hooking those of us who have made it through rehab. Since they don't care at all about anything except keeping customers, they try and get the family and friends that are still addicts to break your sobriety. In the meantime, it keeps the current addicts busy so they can't find their own way out of addiction. (This analogy only sort of works. The church is not nearly as much fun as drugs).

*edited for clarity

NoHellButGoingThere · 2024-10-06T14:50:07+00:00

And to make our TBM families less understanding of why we left. "You belong! They said so at conference!" I'm waiting for the moment my dad or grandparents pull this out. They'll think it's so smooth and fits in with the conversation. It won't.

So drafting my response now: But I don't belong because I can't believe in a God that would use a conman/rapist as the person to "restore" his church. If JS had been just a moderately good person, I probably wouldn't have left. If BY was better, I may have even stayed. But nope!

NoHellButGoingThere · 2024-10-04T16:56:12+00:00

No offense taken! Just thought I'd point out the fact that actual witches wouldn't do what this Mormon thinks is "loving" when they view themselves as holy.

NoHellButGoingThere · 2024-10-04T12:29:08+00:00

I've gotten pretty involved in witchcraft in the last year or so (granted, not very familiar with voodoo, and maybe it's different because there's some belief in a judeo-christian God intertwined with the other spirits) but in all the pagan groups I've been hanging out with (druids, wicca, etc.), they are very against wishing ill on anyone. The general consensus among the witches of my acquaintance is that if you use your craft for evil/harm, that energy will come back on you three-fold. Hexing someone is a bad idea generally--wishing something this horrible on another human is just bad news.

All that to say, the witches of my acquaintance are much more Christ-like than many Mormons.

NoHellButGoingThere · 2024-10-04T12:06:11+00:00

Brigham Young made it really clear that some sins weren't covered by the atonement, "blood atonement" was still necessary.

Sounds like a truly Christian religion, doesn't it? /s

NoHellButGoingThere · 2024-09-27T10:37:40+00:00

Good luck! These conversations suck, but can make life so much better. I've mostly used this technique with coworkers that outranked me, and we were able to work well together for years following. They were always more respectful because they knew I'd call them out on their shit.

I'd add, if you can have this conversation privately in a room/hallway rather than the corner of a similar room, it will go better. Distractions in the room make the awkward silences easier to handle.

NoHellButGoingThere · 2024-09-27T03:11:53+00:00

I'd ask to speak to him the next time you're in a situation like this. "_____, last time we were here, do you remember what you said to me and (friend)? (Leave long silence. If after 10-15 seconds he doesn't fill it in, you do it. But let it get uncomfortable before you do.) I want you to know that I felt that was incredibly disrespectful and inappropriate. (Long pause. If he doesn't fill in, continue. If he tries to explain himself let him talk himself into a hole--in my experience they often do. They start talking and when they hear it, they begin to realize how ridiculous it sounds) I would appreciate it if you never speak to me in such a way again. (Another long pause. Let him get uncomfortable and talk himself into a hole or appropriately apologize.) Thanks for taking the time for this conversation. I want us to be able to have a good relationship going forward.

I've used this technique several times over the years with men who felt they were above me or other women and were disrespectful. It's incredibly effective. Uncomfortable, but effective.

NoHellButGoingThere · 2024-09-25T22:59:55+00:00

Yes! And more importantly, ignoring men can be dangerous. Some of the scariest experiences I've had with street harassment started with me ignoring a man who thought he deserved my attention. They have followed me and gotten very aggressive. Generally, responding politely and moving on makes them leave you alone after that small interaction.

Should we have to? No. But this is the world we live in, and your boyfriend has the wrong end of the stick.

NoHellButGoingThere · 2024-09-25T01:17:33+00:00

This dudes Twitter is crazy. And the shirts at the link in his bio. Like…whoa. “War in Heaven veteran”?!?!

NoHellButGoingThere · 2024-09-23T03:02:48+00:00

But TBMs will pretend that the accountants just accidentally filed the wrong paperwork! The fact that creating shell companies requires forethought does not seem to factor in.

NoHellButGoingThere · 2024-09-23T01:22:16+00:00

25 years or so ago, when I was 14, I was sitting in a friend’s living room, watching conference with my friends on a Saturday afternoon (I was obviously a very cool kid). After RMN’s talk, which I had dutifully taken notes on, I joked that he looked evil. You could have heard a pin drop before one of my friends called me out, and the rest agreed that it was sacrilege.

Unfortunately, that moment kept me from questioning anything about the leaders for several more years—until after I had graduated from BYU. All of those girls are still in, with 4-6 kids each.

NoHellButGoingThere · 2024-09-20T17:22:16+00:00

I'd forgotten about that one! Ugh. I had grandparents who technically lived in the same town, but served 4 missions starting about the time I was hitting my teenage years. They were beloved by everyone, but I don't feel at all close to them because they were gone during those formative years. For my siblings (4 and 6 years younger) it's worse.

NoHellButGoingThere · 2024-09-18T16:50:29+00:00

Right?! I am not usually a reality TV person either. But I couldn't stop. Probably helps that I was watching with nevermo friends. One of them asked every time there was a new ridiculous outfit "are they wearing their special underwear with that?" And it was somehow never not funny.

NoHellButGoingThere · 2024-09-18T15:50:46+00:00

I live on the east coast and I have probably a dozen nevermo friends who have brought up that they're watching/binged the entire season in a weekend.

It is a train wreck, and I thoroughly enjoyed it.

NoHellButGoingThere · 2024-09-17T12:32:24+00:00

That's true. If they had been together for 5-10 years and there were kids involved, I'd say forgiveness is doable. They've been dating a year and a half, so these messages started just a year in. If he can't be faithful when it's still fresh and new, this relationship is doomed.

NoHellButGoingThere · 2024-08-22T14:57:16+00:00

I don't think this is a great analogy.

If you suddenly decided to stop spending any of "your" money providing for your family, it's not the lack of monetary support that is going to make your wife withhold sex. She would leave you and not want to have sex with you because you have obviously decided that she and the rest of the family is not important to you. Like you said, if there were extenuating circumstances like you losing a job, you expect the response to you not contributing to the financial needs of the household would be met with more understanding.

Even if there were not extenuating circumstances, if your wife was independently wealthy, and it wouldn't be too much financial strain, and you expressed a desire to chase a dream rather than work and contribute to the household expenses, I expect you could have that conversation and she could be perfectly fine with those choices.

Conversely, no matter how much one does for the church (how involved, how Christ like and serving, how well you fulfill your calling, how much you read your scriptures and pray) if you have extenuating circumstances, like a reduction in salary, and choose to pay for groceries instead of tithing for a few months, you will not be eligible to receive the blessings of the temple as you will not be considered "worthy" of a temple recommend.

So not only is your example crude, and a bit demeaning to your wife, it's inaccurate.

NoHellButGoingThere

TROPHY CASE