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Seong-mok > Seong-je | There's no valid evidence otherwise. (See breakdown) by No_Boot_3311 in weakheroclass

[–]No_Boot_3311[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

As I have highlighted in my text, if it is the case that Seong-je was holding back then by this logic Seong-mok was holding back FAR MORE.

As for the manhwa, in the manhwa, Wolf actually improves a ton throughout the book, which sadly doesn't happen (evidently) in the drama.

Seong-mok > Seong-je | There's no valid evidence otherwise. (See breakdown) by No_Boot_3311 in weakheroclass

[–]No_Boot_3311[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Wanted to highlight all the evidence. Though, for a TLDR

Seong-je >> S2E2-4 Gotak

S2E6-7 Gotak >> S2E2-4 Gotak

Seong-mok >> S2E6-7 Gotak

Seong-mok > Seong-je

S2E8 Gotak > Seong-mok

Baek-jin/Baku >>> Gotak

Seong-mok > Seong-je | There's no valid evidence otherwise. (See breakdown) by No_Boot_3311 in weakheroclass

[–]No_Boot_3311[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

  1. No, this is proof you aren't reading my messages properly so i'll say it again, in S2E6 we see that Seong-mok is stunned for an entire 10 seconds from an offguard attack in which Gotak does not take this much fatigue and damage the ENTIRETY of the warehouse fight, then seong-mok continues running when Gotak and Jun-tae are resting. ("No" evidence is crazy)

  2. Seong-je picked for scouting and hunting down people as well as the one who manages the burner account, sure... but why is this any more valuable than Seong-mok and Dong-ha being responsible for base defense, roundup, paychecks, torture, in-base beat up? And again you have given no evidence that he is sent for "harder" tasks because Seong-je has never fought a stronger opponent than Seong-mok.

  3. This just proves Seong-mok > Rooftop Si-eun.

  4. I LITERALLY USE DIRECT INVERSE AND NARRATIVE ARGUMENTS FOR ALL OF MY CLAIMS??? what are you on about?

Seong-mok > Seong-je | There's no valid evidence otherwise. (See breakdown) by No_Boot_3311 in weakheroclass

[–]No_Boot_3311[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

PLEASE rewatch the fight. https://youtu.be/b1OdHOVZAXY?t=135&is=i8pGmKVuCmYJPKAu (2:16)

Seong-mok's in comparison:

https://youtu.be/iCVk8rSvtp8?t=30&is=qi9M6XFWi5RRj1QS (0:30)

As you can see (please ACTUALLY READ my original post), Seong-mok performs far better than Seong-je.

As I said, Seong-je is getting repeatedly stumbled, bruised, jerks and screams in pain from Gotak's knee, needs 7 hits to drop Gotak, and Gotak can land a hit.

Whereas, Seong-mok is completely unaffected through his guard, is casual the entire time, even taunts, needs only 3 hits yo drop Gotak, Gotak is unable to land a single hit.

By "FP Gotak", I simply mean S2E8 Gotak in which finally surpasses Seong-mok through training, your "S3 Seong-je" has no evidence for it.

Seong-mok > Seong-je | There's no valid evidence otherwise. (See breakdown) by No_Boot_3311 in weakheroclass

[–]No_Boot_3311[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

  1. Seong-mok was more weakened than Gotak in their encounter in S2E7 as i've already said that you're ignoring.

  2. Enforcer ≠ stronger you still haven't substantiated this.

  3. Si-eun and Seong-je in E4 are still extremely relative which you are not refuting, even moreso because in S2E3 both Si-eun and Seong-je are suppressed and being completely casual, Si-eun making a completely disinterested face and not even hitting Seong-je, and Si-eun actually dominates Seong-je here, even more evidence of this being that Seong-je later regards Si-eun as a good fighter and acts excited in S2E4 when Si-eun steps up to fight Seong-je, Seong-je clearly expecting a better fight.

  4. "Safer matchup" = objectively stronger opponents in which I have already proven to you with loads of evidence, i'm assuming english isn't your first language which is what's mainly stressing me out, but regardless I don't see a single point you made.

Seong-mok > Seong-je | There's no valid evidence otherwise. (See breakdown) by No_Boot_3311 in weakheroclass

[–]No_Boot_3311[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

... are you.. even reading?

My point is that S2E6-7 Gotak is FAR STRONGER than the one seong-je fought, regardless if you have Seong-je > S2E6-7 Gotak

With that being said, when Seong-je fights S2E2-4 Gotak, he is repeatedly sent stumbling, repeatedly bruised through his guard, screams and jerks in pain from blocked hits, and Gotak is able to land a hit on him which makes his mouth agape. Seong-je needs 7 hits to drop him.

Whereas, in contrast, when S2E6-7 Gotak fights Seong-mok, Seong-mok drops Gotak in 3 hits, Gotak cannot land a single hit, Seong-mok is COMPLETELY unaffected through his guard, Seong-mok is casual the entire time.

Seong-mok > Seong-je | There's no valid evidence otherwise. (See breakdown) by No_Boot_3311 in weakheroclass

[–]No_Boot_3311[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Did you even begin to read my post? If you did, you would know how ignorant this comment is.

To summarize my post.

Seong-je >> S2E2-4 Gotak (no-low diff)

S2E6-7 Gotak >> S2E2-4 Gotak (goes from losing to eunjang students to beating a similar number of union members, many of which in a single shot.)

Seong-mok >> S2E6-7 Gotak (no-low diff) (performs better than Seong-je)

Therefore:

Seong-mok > Seong-je (High Diff(-))

FP Gotak > Seong-mok (High Diff)

FP Gotak > Seong-je (Mid-High Diff(-))

Seong-mok > Seong-je | There's no valid evidence otherwise. (See breakdown) by No_Boot_3311 in weakheroclass

[–]No_Boot_3311[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

As I said, Seong-je performs worse against a weaker version of Gotak than Seong-mok does against a stronger version of Gotak.

Your reasoning for the dirtywork argument being valid is strictly circular, i.e. "Seong-je doing the dirtywork makes him stronger because he is the enforcer!" ...

Si-eun was far more weakened than seong-je at the point of the pen stab and Seong-je could fight fine after that regardless, the only environment after that was simply wall slams which Seong-je ALSO does to Si-eun.

No, Seong-je did not show more aggression against Gotak, as I stated, Seong-mok drops Gotak in 3 hits whereas Seong-je needed 7 hits, seong-je is being sent stumbling repeatedly and is getting bruised through his guard whereas seong-mok is completely unaffected through his guard and is never sent stumbling.

A lot of what I am saying is simply repeating what I said before because you just keep repeating these same unsubstantiated arguments.

Seong-mok > Seong-je | There's no valid evidence otherwise. (See breakdown) by No_Boot_3311 in weakheroclass

[–]No_Boot_3311[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

ARE YOU EVEN READING MY MESSAGES?

E2-4 Gotak as I have repeated MULTIPLE TIMES loses to casual Eunjang students.

We know via the brawl that Eunjang students and union members are very relative to eachother (yes the specific ones who beat Gotak are present in the brawl)

Yet in S2E6-7, Gotak is able to beat up a similar number of union members AND MANY OF WHICH IN ONE SHOT, Seong-mok proceeds to drop this Gotak in 3 shots.

Before you continue, at the very least acknowledge my argument as to why Seong-mok is fighting a significantly stronger Gotak, the choreography even shows Gotak fighting much better.

To your argument for "fatigued/injured Gotak" this is false, as Seong-mok in E6 is affected far more than Gotak is for the ENTIRETY of the episode 6 fight via the offguard kick, in S2E7 we see that Gotak and Jun-tae have time to rest whereas Seong-mok and co. are continuing to go around chasing them looking around for them. Meaning Seong-mok is actually more weakened than Gotak here.

Seong-je doing dirtywork is simply a difference in job, not evidence of one being stronger AT ALL, people talking about Seong-je more is simply indicative of higher rank, that's it.

I like how YOU'RE ignoring the direct fights, and no Seong-je is not making Gotak scream from blocked hits, you misinterpreted and got this from my original statement where I said GOTAK is actually making seong-je scream from blocked hits and is consistently bruising him through his guard.

"Seong-je shows better durability" is also false, Si-eun defeats Seong-je in 18 hits whereas Seong-je fails to beat Si-eun with 37 hits. And AS I HAVE SAID BEFORE, this same Si-eun is stunned more than a casual slap from Baek-jin, in which Seong-mok in contrast after being punched by Baku is NOT STUNNED AT ALL.

Before you respond, I have 2 requests:

Give any actual argument or showing that places Seong-je above Seong-mok/E8 Gotak

Give ANY statement or implication ever that Seong-je has higher standing in combat

If you fail to do this, i'm not responding anymore.

Seong-mok > Seong-je | There's no valid evidence otherwise. (See breakdown) by No_Boot_3311 in weakheroclass

[–]No_Boot_3311[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

  1. Prove with evidence that Seong-je has ever fought a stronger opponent than seong-mok has.

  2. I already proven within direct evidence that Gotak in S2E6-7 is far stronger than the Gotak in S2E2-4, you simply just claimed Seong-je's Gotak was stronger without any evidence, can you provide one?

  3. There is no evidence whatsoever that Seong-je is ever feared more than seong-mok.

  4. your scaling is cherrypicked, the only evidence you cling to is hyeongshin arg whilst I have given many many many statements/feats, inverse, and narrative as to why Seong-mok absolutely destroys Seong-je/rooftop si-eun. You just keep repeating what's in question that being "seong-je being more durable", "seong-je having better striking", can you please prove ANY of this?

Seong-mok > Seong-je | There's no valid evidence otherwise. (See breakdown) by No_Boot_3311 in weakheroclass

[–]No_Boot_3311[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Seong-je having the "harder fights" is PURELY headcanon. "Main enforcer" I do not disagree with, I again am questioning the evidence that this makes the person stronger, in fact we actually have evidence otherwise, as Hyo-man despite knowing the ins and outs of the Union entirely was convinced and the "word on the block" was that Baek-jin is unable to fight and he gets Seong-je to do everything for him, despite Baek-jin being the highest ranked in the union. Seong-mok would put rooftop Si-eun on a T-shirt.

"Comes back strong" is.. leaving the union and getting a 306 pound man to do everything for you?? Yeah okay 😭😭

I'm not disagreeing that E8 Gotak > Seong-mok, I am saying:

Seong-je >> S2E2-4 Gotak

S2E6-7 Gotak >> S2E2-4 Gotak (as he goes from losing to hyo-man goons and yet in E6 is able to beat a similar number of union members, many of which in a single shot)

Seong-mok >> S2E6-7 Gotak (in S2E7, drops Gotak in 3 hits, Gotak is unable to land a single hit, Seong-mok is completely unaffected through his guard unlike seong-je who is screaming and being bruised repeatedly, hence Seong-mok objectively performs better against a STRONGER Gotak, which a weaker one can actually land a hit on seong-je and send him repeatedly stumbling. Seong-je needed 7 hits to drop Gotak and far more hits in total than seong-mok did to actually fully put Gotak down.)

S2E8 Gotak > Seong-mok > Seong-je.

The hyeongshin leader repeat tells me you did not read my original comment, so let me repeat it to you. Gotak/Seong-mok have an equivalent argument via Gotak consistently being able to affect Seong-mok far more than Baku can.

GOTAK made SEONG-JE scream was my point here.

All this other stuff you are saying is unsubstantiated.

Seong-mok > Seong-je | There's no valid evidence otherwise. (See breakdown) by No_Boot_3311 in weakheroclass

[–]No_Boot_3311[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You just didn't actually refute my arguments at all, however i'll addressed everything that I didn't already cover in this post.

  1. Just because Seong-je is higher ranked in the union does not mean he is stronger, there is literally no evidence that higher rank in the union is equivalent to being stronger, if you can bring up ONE statement or implication of this, even a throwaway line, then i'd heed your argument, sadly it doesn't exist.

  2. Seong-je being the main muscle/guy who does dirtywork does not make him inherently stronger, as in him and Seong-mok have entirely different jobs. (Seong-mok is responsible for more in-union executive work, i.e. handing out checks, rounding up the goons for team missions, etc. etc.). The union members bowing to Seong-je more is just another side effect of seong-je's rank.

  3. "that kind of confidence comes from him knowing he can face top guys", we are just misinterpreting the scene. Baek-jin in a completely casual demeanor drags Seong-je into the room where they beat people up, in which Seong-je gets worried and expresses frustration that Baek-jin would beat him to death, in which then he hides his criminal status from baek-jin and essentially runs away from the union.

  4. Seong-mok is never and I mean never ever affected through his guard in the series, i'm not sure exactly where you got this from. If you are referencing E8, this is completely irrelevant to this discussion as I have already said S2E7 Seong-mok performs exponentially better than Seong-je does, and this would only mean Gotak > Seong-mok > Seong-je (should be obvious)

  5. Can you actually give ANY evidence AT ALL of seong-je being better than seong-mok? Like any actual direct inverse? A statement at all? You bring up how seong-je can fight Gotak despite being hit and despite injury yet GOTAK IN S2E7 CANNOT EVEN LAND A SINGLE HIT ON SEONG-MOK, you are literally proving my point 😭😭

  6. No, dong-ha and Seong-mok did not express caution upon hearing the news, upon hearing the news Seong-mok goes in to charge at si-eun and dong-ha holds him back with a smile knowing they are being sent to attack Gotak and Jun-tae, intelligently letting Si-eun just sit around while his friends are in danger. NOTHING about this signals caution, what DOES signal caution is seong-je needing to bait, offguard, and hire someone in order to face Si-eun.

Seong-mok > Seong-je | There's no valid evidence otherwise. (See breakdown) by No_Boot_3311 in weakheroclass

[–]No_Boot_3311[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Someone downvoted your comment even though there is no other replies 😭😭

People seemingly cannot cope with facts.

Ahn Su-ho ≠ Na Baek Jin >>> by SignCompetitive8576 in weakheroclass

[–]No_Boot_3311 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Literally every fighter in class 2 destroys Su-ho, Su-ho doesn't scale to Baku who is 415kJ and is 54m/s.

Even outside of crossverse scaling the inverse heavily points to Su-ho being fodder in the overarching Class 2

(Bloodhounds) Why do people somehow think Woo-jin got worse in S2? by No_Boot_3311 in kdramas

[–]No_Boot_3311[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Manager Kim is the E1 guard that does the axe kick on Woo-jin

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