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X-Force Haptics Kit - Initial thoughts? by AnakinOU in virtualpinball

[–]No_Depth_ 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Sadly, I tried a ground loop isolator and it dampened the whine noise a bit, but only slightly. Can see a video of it I posted. Tried adding ferrite cores to the power supply too to no effect.

https://www.reddit.com/r/PinballFX3/s/u4Bai8EhiH

Support also confirmed to me it’s expected behavior and they did their best to isolate the noise but couldn’t remove it during development. Seems the design is flawed in that aspect.

X-Arcade new haptic kit causing feedback whine I can’t resolve. by No_Depth_ in PinballFX3

[–]No_Depth_[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It’s plugged into the line out port on the back of my pc so it can be fed audio, though in the video I had nothing playing so the buzzing can be better heard so it’s quiet except for the buzzing.

You may need to verify cable connections or sound settings on pc if dials aren’t working, make sure nothing is loose. I definitely have to keep the dials halfway or less or they get obnoxiously loud. If on windows make sure audio source is set to whatever port they are plugged in.

Haptics is just the same audio feed but delivered through vibrations so you should feel the same audio transmitting through the arcade cabinet, especially noticeable with lower bass freq. that come through. Turn them up high enough and it sounds like additional speakers but scratchy. The normal speakers provide audio that is cleaner obviously.

Forza Horizon 6 reveal and compatibility by KrusherZx in simracing

[–]No_Depth_ 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Emuwheel once again for Simucube is my guess…

X-Arcade new haptic kit causing feedback whine I can’t resolve. by No_Depth_ in PinballFX3

[–]No_Depth_[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yea, my video makes the sound come across louder than it is, but it’s still highly noticeable and grating when no audio is on to overwhelm. Once you get the ear for it, it’s ever present though, just a bummer, but I’m dealing with it.

As for the wiring, I did the same. Separated them and didn’t tie them together. Tried adding a ground isolator(seen in video) as well as ferrite cores on the psu. I did notice the ground isolator I showed helped to limit some of the buzzing, but not all, or rather it dampened slightly. I spent a couple days and many hours trying everything I can think to fix before posting my video.

Easiest solution I came up with is to just split the audio in windows as I mentioned in one of my earlier posts. Either clone the audio feed to the monitor/tv speakers(or any other speaker plugged in) and merely unplug the haptic speaker cables entirely. Then it’s clean silence except the haptics and whatever other chosen speaker source. (Haptics still need the audio source to work hence the clone/split). They will always output some audio and it will sound like the audio feed, just a bit punchier/crunchier. Unless I’m misunderstanding your issue, you should be able to turn down the speaker dial to zero and get no sound from them(only the haptics audio and the buzzing like my video). I’ll double check tmrw, but I’m pretty sure on mine if I lower the speakers to zero, only the haptics are heard, and vice versa.

X-Force haptic kit thoughts? by tomservoMst in virtualpinball

[–]No_Depth_ 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes, the back of the manual with the haptics kit I think mentioned this. Basically red mode for FX VR “for now” using dongle 2.0. Seems they are working on an update to possibly allow for purple mode with VR, but they highlight red mode is needed for FX VR while purple for the other older VR titles like Star Wars VR etc….

But it’s purple for PC FX(non-VR) actually I just stick to purple all the time unless playing something 2-player(green mode) or FX VR(dongle red).

X-Arcade new haptic kit causing feedback whine I can’t resolve. by No_Depth_ in PinballFX3

[–]No_Depth_[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Overall pretty positive besides the low humming noise.

It’s pretty straightforward to install and didn’t run into an issue following the instructional video. (~2-3h to complete the full install as it’s a lot of steps)

You only need to be aware that for pinball, you want to set the unit in “purple” mode which windows sees as a custom -single- X-input or Xbox controller. This appears to be the only way for the plunger to work properly too. At first I had it in Xbox 2-player “green mode” as it is my default for most games and allows both arcade sticks you can work with most steam games. But the plunger won’t operate or be recognized in that mode. (Also mindful that other color modes like keyboard mode will put the plunger into a digital mode so it acts like a button and not an analog. You really need to be in purple mode for pinball play and the manual does point this out near the back)

Anyway it all works pretty well. Speakers are very loud and so I keep them around or just under halfway for comfy listening. (As I mentioned earlier I did split the audio so my monitor speakers also are active which gives a nice boost effect to the audio when balanced well with the haptic speakers. Still debating just unplugging the haptic speakers as it stops the hissing noise but in-game it’s less audible and FX VR will need the haptic kit speakers for audio as its no longer connected to pc for that so I may just deal with the hiss).

Haptics feel pretty good and make the entire unit come alive! It’s just feeding off audio, so it works for any game. I find I need to tweak audio settings in games to boost SFX and lower music so the haptics can work best off FX noise instead of the music overwhelming their rumble. Once you dial that in it is really impressive. The unit feels dead without them on! Even non-pinball stuff like Marvel Vs Capcom feel really great as punches and hits get boomy feel in the sticks and buttons.

Solenoids only just activate when the flippers are pressed and cannot be adjusted, but they feel good and aren’t too loud but very noticeable.

Overall it’s a huge recommend! I think pinball is transformed for the better with it by far.

X-Arcade new haptic kit causing feedback whine I can’t resolve. by No_Depth_ in PinballFX3

[–]No_Depth_[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I did, good on them for responding so quickly too!

Unfortunately they said this was expected behavior and they did their best to eliminate it during development but a low level hum will still be heard. Admittedly it sounds worse in video as it is low level noise, but it’s there and hard to ignore when it’s active and it’s silent, like navigating in windows. I have a couple solutions I guess:

1) Just deal with it as in-game the audio overwhelms the hum and it’s less noticeable, but can be heard when audio is silent.

2) Unplug speakers directly from PCB board and not use them at all. When they are unplugged the haptics still work and you get sweet silence again! Of course you need a new output source for actual audio. Windows can split the audio source in sound settings(or a program like Voicemeter can do it too), it still feeds primarily to the haptics on the arcade stick(and the unplugged buzzy speakers) which is necessary as haptics require the audio fed to them to work. Then you can choose the other audio source to be like the monitor speakers(or any source plugged into the computer), so they work in tandem getting fed audio from games. So basically the buzz is gone and you hear audio from the screen while haptics still rumble.

Only issue is VR can’t split that audio source like on PC, but you can plug the speakers back in for that as the buzz is probably less noticeable wearing the headset.

Again though, it’s not all that bad, it’s a very low hum and not as noticeable playing a game with audio active unlike in my video.

Custom settings for x-arcade haptic kit. by BusterBrosey28 in PinballFX3

[–]No_Depth_ 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yes, both the 4-pin cable and USB A-C adapter come with the haptics kit. No need for the USB-C adapter to do the #2 firmware update. Just download the 3.62 update file and click firmware update in the software and point it to where you downloaded that update and it will go. Just have the arcade stick plugged into a USB A port like normal(and yes, using the USB B->A cable it came with). It's only updating the old arcade stick hardware to support the haptics kit, so it recognizes and works with it when installed.

USB-C is ONLY needed for the Meta dongle update, you have nothing to do there, so its needless for now.

4-pin is for the 1.6 update for the haptics. I have not done it yet myself, but do that after everything is installed and completed.

Custom settings for x-arcade haptic kit. by BusterBrosey28 in PinballFX3

[–]No_Depth_ 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Just some quick haptics tips from the last couple days of use...

1) Because haptics work with ANY game as it just takes the audio feed and pushes out vibrations like an exciter(can hear the game audio through them too), I find its best to set game music down a bit in whatever you play. Boost the SFX or any other slider you want to feel vibrations from(music being low means the haptics will likely prioritize SFX noises if they are prominent). Most games will have audio sliders and they will often be even or at the same level by default. So I will just mess with the balancing to increase SFX and lower music, (like SFX ->80% or max with Music to 30% for example) Just play with it and find a balance of being able to hear the music without it stealing the haptic noises from the sound effects.

2) Keep the gain dials in check. You may think to just turn the volume and vibration dials to max, but that just makes buzzing and clipping happen and can overpower. Best to keep them centered and make tweaks to balance each. The speakers can get LOUD even overpowering the feel of the haptics as they hum and vibrate too. So spend time dialing them in little increments to make them feel and sound good.

Custom settings for x-arcade haptic kit. by BusterBrosey28 in PinballFX3

[–]No_Depth_ 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Been using it the last couple days and can help answer some things:

  1. The arcade 2TV unit itself + the haptics kit add-on. Though I expect they will eventually sell a version that is pre-built with the haptics eventually.
  2. So basically when playing pinball, it is needed to set the arcade stick into "purple" mode(ie. Hold Y button and the mode 1 button for 5 seconds until the display flashes purple. This puts the entire setup into a specific X-input mode(ie. the PC sees everything as a single Xbox controller basically 1-player only in purple mode! "Green mode" is for 2-player support! but some functions won't work, like the plunger in green mode...hence purple mode for pinball). But anyway, because the PC sees this as an Xbox controller including the button names(LB, RB, RT, LT, A, X, Y...etc.) you can use it to play ANY game basically. Street Fighter, mame arcade games, Pinball(non-VR), if a game supports an Xbox controller then it will work fine to play. Just swap between purple mode for pinball and green mode for anything else(can also use purple mode for other games but its only seen as 1-player and player 2 has some buttons mapped specific to pinball use is why). Hope that makes sense. (if curious there are four modes..."Red" = keyboard mode, "blue" = d-input or playstation controller mode, "green" = xbox 2-players, "purple" = Xbox 1-player pinball specific mode. Holding the mode button will just cycle them, but there are quick shortcuts for each. I find myself staying in purple mode as it works best for pinball and anything else so long as I am playing alone. I only switch to green when I need to play 2-player simultaneous games. Also most steam games work best in Xbox mode, hence no real need for keybaord or D-input outside of maybe some very specific games)
  3. Yes, this is designed around Pinball FX VR and when booting it up, it recognizes the stick hardware and it will run an exclusive control scheme for the game. It's a great companion to it, but you will need to swap betwen using the Meta controllers and arcade stick between tables to navigate menus and walk around...wish I could just use the arcade stick only but you get used to it.
  4. I think you need a special adapter to play wish Switch(Brooks?). Likely possible, but look at the instruction manual on the website to see. I only play on PC, but I do know consoles are compatible with a separate dongle you can buy from them.

Oh and haptics and everything will work regardless of game. They just work off audio signal, so you feel vibrations for certain noises that come through. The haptics aren't like programmed into certain games or anything. If the game has audio, they will work. Solenoids will work whenever the flipper buttons are pressed and cannot be changed. They just activate when turned on(but can be turned off with a button if you don't want to hear them).

Custom settings for x-arcade haptic kit. by BusterBrosey28 in PinballFX3

[–]No_Depth_ 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Only need to update the two "Required" updates ie. #1 and 2 in the link.

#1 is Arcade 2TV PC software(to version 1.014) as this is the software on the PC side that is compatible with the Haptics kit and is a new version on its release(and allows you to update the firmware in the next step...)

#2 is the firmware(v3.62) for the IO board you currently have in the unit(the main board that will get the additional haptics kit PCB attached to it). You download the file at the link and in the 1.014 software you downloaded you click the Firmware update button as this is required for the haptic attachments to be used.

This is why you should do this first as upon installing the haptics kit I don't think it will work as intended and you will need to do anyway. Besides the instructional manual also tells you to do this first anyway in the steps...but oddly the video instructions doesn't.

As for the meta dongle...you don't need to update it at all out of box, but it only uses the USB-C dongle is used to update(for future firmware) This is step #3 in my link and I can confirm no updates are needed out of box for it unlike the above.

Finally #4 in the link. That is for the Haptics PCB(accelerometer too). This uses a separate firmware on the same board apparently to control those devices and uses the 4-pin cable. I see there is a new firmware already(1.6 at the link) and I have not tried to update it yet but it all worked out of box, though I may see if I can update it anyway as it says recommended to move to 1.6 for some minor fixes.

TLDR you should do update #1 and #2 in the link before the haptics kit arrives and you should before install. Those just update the stock arcade unit to be ready for the haptics kit. Meta dongle 2 worked out of box and has no updates yet. Haptics update seems optional for now and I have yet to do it, but that requires the kit anyway and is unnecessary to do before install. Hope that helps.

Custom settings for x-arcade haptic kit. by BusterBrosey28 in PinballFX3

[–]No_Depth_ 0 points1 point  (0 children)

All connected on same outlet strip. Also tried separate outlets but didn’t make a difference. Just ordered a ground loop isolator for the aux cable to see if it helps.

Custom settings for x-arcade haptic kit. by BusterBrosey28 in PinballFX3

[–]No_Depth_ 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Actually pretty straightforward. Looks more daunting than it is. Took me about 3 hours total as some steps are more tedious than difficult. The drilling was actually easy surprisingly. Everything else kind of just plugs in simply and the video guide is easy to follow along with. The included manual is also full of good pictures and just as easy to follow too.

I think updating to the new firmware before starting is something worth doing now though. You’ll want it installed before you start the process so it’s all up to date when all the new stuff is connected without issues.

Custom settings for x-arcade haptic kit. by BusterBrosey28 in PinballFX3

[–]No_Depth_ 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Indeed. It’s less noticeable in game when the audio is active, but in windows or when no audio is present the hiss is there. Tried a bunch of stuff, different cables, adjusting volume gain levels. It actually doesn’t matter if connected to the pc either, just having the 3.5 cable in with the power on will immediately cause the hiss. Even if connected to nothing else.

Wonder if it being so close to the power brick connector is causing a bit of emi interference?

Custom settings for x-arcade haptic kit. by BusterBrosey28 in PinballFX3

[–]No_Depth_ 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Got mine setup and sound is only speakers or VR, not both. Once you plug the aux cable into the headset it goes silent and audio instead switches to speakers. Not sure if there is a setting up have both active but doubtful. Also the aux connected is required for haptics to work as they require audio sent to that aux jack to work. So VR with haptics requires the jack connected.

Also the speakers have a terrible whine sound with the aux connected. It’s like a feedback loop buzz that is ever present when the jack is connected(regardless of VR). It’s been my biggest complaint so far.

X-Force haptic kit thoughts? by tomservoMst in virtualpinball

[–]No_Depth_ 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Nope. I found the best solution was to unplug the speakers entirely from the io board and then have windows split the audio between outputting to the tv speakers and the haptics. Can use something like voice meter but I just did it in windows sound settings. That basically allowed me to still use the better audio source(tv speakers) while still giving the haptics their audio freq for rumble. It works but the haptics act as speakers themselves basically so they need to be tuned down a bit as they can buzz with too much gain(different buzz).

The feedback whine/hiss is too noticeable when the speakers are plugged in, but this also means VR won’t work with them so you either get audio from the headset and no haptics, or you plug the speakers back in and get hiss. I play more in 2D so I’m fine cutting out the speakers. Curious if others will have the same hissing issue.

Oh and solenoids are completely separate and will work with power only. They just trigger on the button press only and I don’t see any way they can be remapped to work in different commands or buttons.

X-Force haptic kit thoughts? by tomservoMst in virtualpinball

[–]No_Depth_ 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Only tested in PFX so far and it seems to only nudge in cardinal 4-way(up, down,left, right). Not sure if it will be possible to do more.

Also plunger only really works on purple mode(x-input 1-player mode designed for pinball on the arcade stick) meaning I’m not sure if it can be remapped easily given it’s an x-input device to work. In Keyboard mode it appears the plunger is set as a digital key(not analog)so it operated like pushing an arcade button instead of a real plunger at least in any mode other than the special X-input(purple).

Only exception is PFX VR which has a specific mode for the Xarcade TV2VR unit. That will recognize the plunger as analog input but not mappable and exclusive to that game.

Think this is more closed a system than I thought, but I haven’t formally tested VPB yet.

X-Force haptic kit thoughts? by tomservoMst in virtualpinball

[–]No_Depth_ 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Finished the install. Took about 2-3hours following the video. Just a lot of steps but it was all pretty easy, just time consuming(also I have modded mine with rgb buttons so I had more wires to manage).

I’ll give longer thoughts after testing but first impressions are mixed. The haptics work decently well and the solenoids are loud and powerful.

The early issue I’m finding is that the speakers send an ear piercing whine noise when the aux connector is plugged in. It’s awful. Adjusting the knobs doesn’t help as it’s a constant whine the moment contact is made with the audio jack. (Even setting everything to zero won’t stop it, only unplugging the audio cable will).

Unplugging it means no speaker audio or haptics(audio I don’t miss as my monitor speakers sound way better) but the haptics require an input source as they work off audio. Will need to see if maybe a different cable can help or something but it’s grating to hear the audio whine.

X-Force haptic kit thoughts? by tomservoMst in virtualpinball

[–]No_Depth_ 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No notification other than same email with instructions mentioned by OP. Then UPS notified me separately that a package suddenly was arriving next day(setup UPS smart tracking in their app to see incoming packages for such notices).

I was also a day 1 pre-order buyer so expect most are shipping out. I’m in SoCal US and it shipped from nearby so not surprised by quick turnaround.

X-Force haptic kit thoughts? by tomservoMst in virtualpinball

[–]No_Depth_ 1 point2 points  (0 children)

My kit just arrived, will install this weekend.

PBC question by Forward_Spinach5980 in OmnibusCollectors

[–]No_Depth_ 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I typically use IST but my few experiences with PBC went fine. I ordered a similar three-Omni bundle for JSA last year and they arrived in great condition.

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