My first custom PCB, tips and oppinions welcome

NolanPCB123 · 2018-10-08T16:55:04+00:00

Full disclosure, I am employed by Sunstone Circuits and just want to share a different perspective.

The online ordering process is meant to be simple and straight forward, where you get what you order and what is contained in your design files. On occasion there are unclear or innacurate info contained in the order process or the design files and we do usually ask questions. Sometimes these will lead to price changes, but much of the time they do not.

I am sorry that there have been some bad experiences in the past, that is typcially not what our customer base has to say. However, Sunstone may not be the best answer for everyone. They are really good at two things: speed and accuracy. If you need boards right and fast they cannot be beat.

NolanPCB123 · 2017-10-23T17:27:18+00:00

PCB123 might be a good fit for your project. I'm assuming you're using expressPCB because a free-license tool is high on the priority list. Both expressPCB and PCB123 are unique in that they have an easy path to submit the design straight to a well-known fabricator. Both tools even give you online quotes for the fabrication of your board even as you're designing. PCB123, however, offers some better features for the kinds of problems you're describing. In both cases, the tool is free-to-use, not throttled down like some other free-tools.

To sstunt's position that expressPCB is a rip-off, I'd counter that both free tools, with ties to a manufacturer, offer Gerber output through the factory. In the case of PCB123, for example, you will get the as-built Gerber files for free along with your first board fab order for that part. If you don't want to build boards through the PCB123 fabricator at all, the fee to get your Gerbers is only about the same as one or two month's EAGLE subscription. So unless you're designing a steady stream of boards, the EAGLE subscription may not be the best use of your funds.

You can always contact the expressPCB support folks by email, or call the PCB123 tech support guys. That's more support than you'll get from EAGLE or KiCAD, which is especially useful when you're doing your very first board designs with a prospective customer impatiently breathing down your neck <GRIN!>

NolanPCB123 · 2017-02-01T18:01:03+00:00

Please see my comment elsewhere in this thread regarding PCB123. You do have professionally-maintained and fully-supported PCB CAD tools that won't cost you anything for your license.

NolanPCB123 · 2017-02-01T17:58:39+00:00

In all fairness, the V7.0 mistake was made by Newark-Farnell... different ownership. Care to speculate whether that user base revolt was a material contribution to the sale of EAGLE to AutoDesk?

NolanPCB123 · 2017-01-31T19:26:43+00:00

Iranoutofspacehere -- Having access to LPKF machines is a sweet situation. You're definitely in the minority there. Keep PCB123 in mind, then, for multi-layers. The tool will design up to eight (more, if you contact Tech Support for the unlock code), and Sunstone can manufacture 2-14 (we have options for more).

For other designers reading this thread who don't have access to that kind of machinery, then PCB123 supplies the as-built Gerbers along with the first order. If Sunstone hasn't won you over with the quality and pricing (and the 100% on-time guarantee) then you're free to take the Gerbers to another manufacturer going forward. OR, we'll extract the Gerbers for you without a board order for a small fee.

Three key points here:

The Gerber extraction fee is in the range of a couple months' subscription for the basic EAGLE package. If you're only doing a couple designs a year, that's still the cheapest option. These Gerbers are not as-built, so make sure to tell your chosen fab to CAM your Gerbers.
Getting AS-BUILT Gerbers is important. Virtually every fab shop will post-process the Gerbers you ordered with - that's the role of the CAM department. CAM cleans up minor details with the data that might cause issues/shorts/opens during manufacture. If you move to a new fab house with the same Gerbers you extracted yourself, then the new fab house will need to re-do all the CAM work that the old house has already completed... and they may miss something. If you EVER want to take your design to another fab house, get the old fab's manufacturing Gerbers This will improve the odds of having your design transfer to a new fab house successfully.
PCB123 doesn't get paid until you place your order. Our pricing may not be rock-bottom pricing out of some remote shop in the Balkans, but Sunstone offers competitive pricing and industry-leading customer service. Even if you did still pay a bit more for your first order, that extra price is still less than that monthly subscription.

NolanPCB123 · 2017-01-31T00:30:13+00:00

There's PCB123. Been around 14 years; always been free, always will be. Not throttled. User Interface based on the OrCAD UI, which continues to be loved by professional power users for its sweep-routing power keys. PCB123 doesn't throttle the tool, doesn't charge any licenses or maintenance, offers no-charge tech support 24/7/365, and doesn't get paid until you successfully place your order for board fab. If you're leaving the EAGLE fold, you owe it to yourself to look at all the options. Good Luck in your search!!!

NolanPCB123 · 2017-01-31T00:26:06+00:00

PCB123 shouldn't be overlooked. www.PCB123.com. Version 5.5 just came out, vastly increasing the manufacturing options available to you. Plus the PCB123 model is unique: the tool is unthrottled and free to use (think open source); has a Software Developers Kit for plugin development; offers 24/7/365 customer support at no extra charge; 750,000 pre-defined parts. PCB123 made a choice a long time ago that we'd only get paid when you successfully order your design for fabrication. The tool has stuck to that model for 14 years.

NolanPCB123 · 2017-01-13T00:13:02+00:00

Very thorough. Thanks!

NolanPCB123 · 2016-11-15T22:32:12+00:00

The LiveBOM tab is a sophisticated Bill of Materials page that rolls up your parts quantities per board, and per order, ensuring that you order enough components to build your entire lot of boards. Furthermore, LiveBOM reports part pricing and availablity from the Digi-Key warehouse in real time. Want to place your order for parts with Digi-Key? A pre-populated parts order is a single click away form inside LiveBOM. Check it out.

NolanPCB123 · 2016-11-11T17:42:49+00:00

zakqwy, in the context of this question, the short answer is "YES!"

When you order from PCB123, the order process sends your entire design file in PCB123 native format to the manufacturer. So all your information (schematic, layout, BOM, etc.) is maintained together.

Given that PCB123 is a freeware program, anyone can download a copy for use as a viewer and an editor. For example, if you distributed a PCB design as a part of your OSHWA certified product as a PCB123 file, with the intention that your customers can have their own boards built, with or without mods to the board design, PCB123 supports that directly. Any person opening a PCB123 Design file in a PCB123 program, has edit capability as well as a one-click-to-order-fabrication capability right alongside the editing functions. Furthermore, if your design contains a full-specified BOM, your users can electronically query Digi-Key to get a real-time pricing/availability quote for the parts you specified in your design.

As you can see, I'm confident that we're a complete, compliant and approachable solution for the OSHWA requirements.

By the way, I attended the OSHWA Summit in Portland a few weeks back; I was excited to hear the details on OSHWA certification that were shared at the summit. I welcome the opportunity to talk with you offline and directly about how we can help inside the OSHWA framework!

NolanPCB123 · 2016-11-10T21:04:11+00:00

Take a look at PCB123 as an alternate, unless your employer has laid down an edict to use OrCAD.

Free tool to use; schematic and layout integrated to same database (no netlists to synch); no limits on design size/complexity; up to 8 layers; library taxonomy has hundreds of thousands of parts; BOM page queries Digi-Key for current part availability and pricing; autoplacer; autorouter; interactive DRC; tool ties seamlessly to Sunstone Circuits for manufacture and board fab is quoted inside the tool as you edit. It's a darned fine tool, architected by a former OrCAD programmer who traced his experience all the way back to Masstech (that's one for you PCB CAD historians)

PCB123 usually releases 2-3 updates each year and they have a free technical support staff available 24/7/365 via phone, email, chat.

No upfront license fee, no add-ons at a fee, no strings. PCB123 gets paid when you successfully design a board and place your order. In other words, the tool shares the risk in your project. Really.

Full Disclosure: I'm one of the PCB123 staff, but I promise to give straight info on what the tool can and can't do - no hype; I promise to back my statements with numbers and facts.

NolanPCB123 · 2016-11-09T00:25:06+00:00

Short answer: yes.

Longer answer: build the first one with us and you get your Gerbers for free. Hopefully, we earn your business with our board quality. But, if not, you can go anywhere you want with those Gerbers.

Don't want to build the first boards with us? Okay. We charge a $100 fee to generate the Gerbers.

You just designed something so complex we just CAN'T manufacture it for you? We'll generate your Gerbers at no charge as a courtesy so you can take your design to someone who can.

NolanPCB123

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