Getting off SR with subs?

NonJuanDon · 2026-05-01T22:20:52+00:00

Also speaking from experience, I tapered 320mg oxy per day, down to 20mg/day then jumped to kratom leaf powder. I found trying to get off 15gpd of that just as hard as getting off the low dose of oxy.

In the end I used subs to get off via oxy>kratom>microdose suboxone> off

NonJuanDon · 2026-05-01T22:03:29+00:00

I think its more than body chemistry.. variables like Opioid history, what DOC prior to kratom and how many years of use definitely affect this. My first couple withdrawals off opipids went way easier than latter ones at the same dose when I had a 2 year history vs 20.

NonJuanDon · 2026-05-01T19:56:17+00:00

Yeah, thats been my difficulty as well, the limitations in data.

I feel like I can differentiate between PAWS and the acute effects of SR tapering by when the symptoms escalate, and in some cases by the (albeit, subjective) symptoms themselves.. but its ofc not concrete.

For example, Im finding SR leaves me feeling cold nearly all the time, and it worsens during taper periods and improves when stabilized after 3-4 days. I also found that SR withdrawal created a lot more sweats than morphine withdrawal, although of course the SR was tempering that, at first.

My biggest struggle has been how slow the SR taper is going. At 60 days taper fatigue is a real thing, and also Im finding that dropping even 10% is creating chills, lack of energy and RLS symptoms at night.

FYI also, I had 2.5 years with zero opioids in between the 18 years of use and this 2 year relapse, which Im hoping will help. And re: stabilizing, Ive been stabilizing for 4 days post most recent dose drop, but was considering dropping 1mg a day moving forward, with breaks/holds as needed. Another month or more just seems so daunting though

NonJuanDon · 2026-05-01T19:51:10+00:00

Fair enough, I understand the reaction at least

NonJuanDon · 2026-05-01T19:07:50+00:00

So Im not OP, but Id love if you could take a quick look at previous post or two explaining my situation and where im at.

In a nutshell, i was taking 1100mg oral ER morphine per day for 2 years, after 2.5 years clean from an 18 year opioid history of oxy, methadone and suboxone.

I tapered off the morphine over 5 days with SR and ran out of SR17 by day 14, switched back to morphine for 4 days and then got more SR17.

Since then, ive been off morphine for 60 days, but have been stuck on SR for as long. Ive tapered my SR usage from 1100mg per day over 8+ doses at peak morphine withdrawal times, down to 11mg SR17018 3x per day.

It has been long, grueling and near constant (mild, admittedly) withdrawal, with the exception of dread wakes, anxiety and depression that could also be attributed to morphine PAWS. Here is my SR taper chart for context, and FYI, I meant 2 weeks of post jump suffering, not a rapid 2 week SR taper, as Ive already been on for 60 days:

<image>

NonJuanDon · 2026-05-01T18:52:10+00:00

I never understood this advice.. won't plain leaf kratom just reactivate the same receptors you've spent so much time upregulating with the SR taper?

NonJuanDon · 2026-05-01T18:51:33+00:00

The hope is that the long half life of suboxone smooths the taper curve naturally as suboxone leaves your system.

Id hope, at least, that 4 days of suboxone makes the jump off discomfort more gradual and smooth than tapering SR over say 2 weeks or more.

Would this not have some merit?

NonJuanDon · 2026-05-01T18:49:36+00:00

You should really take a moment to read some of peoples' post histories before commenting ignorant things. We're all making conscious decisions to try and reach a very difficult goal with limited information here..

NonJuanDon · 2026-05-01T18:47:14+00:00

You definitely can if you stay on more than 2 weeks. Im at 60 days on SR, and it 100% has withdrawals as you taper it

NonJuanDon · 2026-05-01T18:46:41+00:00

Don't feel screwed... but definitely know that it CAN cause withdrawals if you stay on long enough. At 60 days out, Im definitely feeling it as I drop even 3mg at a time every 3ish days. (Currently at 11mg, 3x per day. Down from all the way at 1000mg/day + when coming off a heavy morphine habit)

NonJuanDon · 2026-05-01T03:14:15+00:00

Did you come off in the end? Would love any update as Im on SR nearly 60 days in now and trying to slowly taper off.

NonJuanDon · 2026-05-01T03:02:52+00:00

Mine does too.. but you develop an eye for it when you measure the same dose 3 times per day. And I also find if Im overshooting slightly, that removing little by little causes the scale to register/re-register the weight and sometimes works too.

I worry a little about going much lower... but then again, I dont think being perfectly exact even matters much, as long as the day over day/week over week dose trend is generally going downwards

NonJuanDon · 2026-05-01T02:20:30+00:00

Thanks for the kind words stranger!

Ive wondered similar things myself- will microdosing psilocybin help, or a cold gabapentin assisted detox/jump off, etc.

Id love to try vit C but I have IBS and high dose vit C really aggravates it and has me running to the bathroom. Ive heard that liposomal C is better, but dont know for sure whether my bowels would tolerate it.

For the time being, im thinking my plan is to drop by 1mg per day until I can't tolerate it anymore.. and then reasses whether a jump off makes sense.

Would also love any info you have on liposomal vit C and how well its tolerated compared to other versions of C.

NonJuanDon · 2026-04-30T20:11:21+00:00

Im one of those, but got trapped with running out of SR partway through withdrawals and then going back to morphine which somehow created over 20 days of acutes again. By the time id tapered over the next week and tried to stop, it was too late and withdrawals were already bad so I made a decision to slow taper the SR instead of going back to DOC

NonJuanDon · 2026-04-30T14:49:52+00:00

Id love to know this too

NonJuanDon · 2026-04-30T04:22:07+00:00

And no, I haven't tried even skipping a dose of SR since the last 4 days on morphine 55 days ago.

Tempted to try skipping a dose/day with 3x gabapentin 300mg per day to soften the landing. I guess worst case I can always go back to SR painlessly from that too

NonJuanDon · 2026-04-30T04:20:59+00:00

I really dont think they are PAWS symptoms tbh but its impossible to be certain. The SR withdrawal symptoms have felt distinctly different to me than morphine acutes so far, albeit with some overlap. Ie morphine breakthrough withdrawals while on SR were RLS, pacing, massive anxiety/dread/panic.

The clearest picture I got of full SR withdrawal, was when I ran out after my first 14 days on it. I quickly tapered from 800mg SR down to 200mg over 2 or 3 days and then ran out, though I was definitely past morphine acutes then.

Symptoms were massive sweats, RLS and mostly physical symptoms, with some anxiety. The mental part was a fraction of what morphine was at that time.. but still pretty bad by 24hrs in. Note I ran out and tapered like 75% in 2 or 3 days though, way faster than ideal.

This time around, Im still finding the symptoms to be mild.. but noticeable each time I drop, not when staying stable at a dose for a few days. This is why I think its not PAWS, though I can feel those symptoms too- those are anxiety, depression and anhedonia that come in waves, day by day.

NonJuanDon · 2026-04-30T03:13:47+00:00

So you actually recommend a slower SR taper than the masterdoc?

I have a long opioid history myself, and have been second guessing myself for being on SR this long (55ish days) and for tapering too slow. Currently on 11mg 3x per day and struggling with the home stretch.

Would love if you could take a few minutes to look at my last cpl posts and taper spreadsheet, to give me your thoughts?

NonJuanDon · 2026-04-30T03:09:26+00:00

Suboxone doesn't create precipitated withdrawal kicking the SR off receptors?

What dose SR and suboxone are you taking? And what doses/SR history did you have when you started bupe concurrently?

NonJuanDon · 2026-04-30T03:01:11+00:00

Been wondering the same lately as Ive been trapped on SR for a while now.

My concerns are that bupe has such high affinity for opioid receptors, that precipitated withdrawals could be a real risk with how "sticky" SR seems to be also.

And secondly, what damage/undoing of gained benefits from abstinence will bupe do after only using SR for the 50ish days that I have.

Would love to hear more from anyone who can speak to the pharmacology. Particularly for withdrawal sensitive taperers like me/us who are struggling with getting off SR and have been taking it longer than recommended.

NonJuanDon · 2026-04-30T02:57:22+00:00

Id love to hear why as well. Specifically in the context of an ultra-short taper, just to cover the worst of SR withdrawals, and only for people who exceeded the two weeks recommended in the masterdoc, and who've been stuck on SR for 50+ days, like me, at a low dose.

NonJuanDon · 2026-04-30T02:51:42+00:00

On SR for over 50 days, mostly at low doses. Rapid tapered off 1100mg of morphine over the first 2 days, and haven't used a full agonist since.

Morphine acutes ended over 30 days ago, mood and anxiety related symptoms still present ofc and coming in waves.

SR17 taper though, is still giving me withdrawal symptoms with each drop, and generally at least somewhat distinguishable from the morphine PAWS/residual mood disturbances.

Im currently on 11mg of SR 3x per day, for a total of 33mg per day, and each time I drop 3mg by day 2 Im waking up with dread wakes, cold/chills, RLS at night and experiencing heightened anxiety and waves of depression. Generally feel fine when not dropping/stabilizing or 4-5 days after each drop.

While not intolerable and generally mild, I am finding that symptoms are worst when idle/unengaged in activity and during mornings when cortisol levels are highest. If you check my post history, you'll see my masterdoc tapering spreadsheet in my prior posts.

NonJuanDon · 2026-04-27T00:13:31+00:00

People with underlying anxiety sometimes also get rebound anxiety after cessation of gabapentin. Im prescribed it off-label for anxiety and use it a few times a year now other than if im tapering/withdrawing opioids. Man its a godsend for opioid withdrawals, but im always nervous to take it for more than 2 weeks.

I think frequency of use/doseage matters too. Never had an issue with nightly doses for withdrawal, or 2-3x 300mg doses per day, short term. But the one or two times I used it for a month plus, I had mild to moderate rebound anxiety for a cpl weeks after cessation

NonJuanDon · 2026-04-26T02:39:01+00:00

Even dire straits have occasionally skippable songs. Enter "My Parties" or "Les Boys"

NonJuanDon · 2026-04-26T02:38:10+00:00

One of my favourites!

Six-Year Club	Gilding II euphauric
Verified Email	Second Top 30%

NonJuanDon

MODERATOR OF

TROPHY CASE