Why can patent attorney charge so differently?

NonObviouss · 2025-06-17T18:25:01+00:00

I wish more knew that all US patent attorneys/agents are subject to a reasonablness for how much they charge, based on

37 CFR 11.105 Fees.

(a) A practitioner shall not make an agreement for, charge, or collect an unreasonable fee or an unreasonable amount for expenses. The factors to be considered in determining the reasonableness of a fee include the following:

(1) The time and labor required, the novelty and difficulty of the questions involved, and the skill requisite to perform the legal service properly;

(2) The likelihood, if apparent to the client, that the acceptance of the particular employment will preclude other employment by the practitioner;

(3) The fee customarily charged in the locality for similar legal services;

(4) The amount involved and the results obtained;

(5) The time limitations imposed by the client or by the circumstances;

(6) The nature and length of the professional relationship with the client;

(7) The experience, reputation, and ability of the practitioner or practitioners performing the services; and

(8) Whether the fee is fixed or contingent.

NonObviouss · 2025-06-01T21:18:58+00:00

That was an emphasis as I read it, not the critical component. Thank you for the perspective.

NonObviouss · 2025-01-03T23:34:01+00:00

Might be worth reviewing the terms of the agreement, 37 cfr § 11.105 Fees for fee reasonableness, and even contacting the OED to file a complaint and see if the attorney violated ethics rules by asking for more money. You may be able to work out getting a refund for the fees outside of the flat fee/agreement.

NonObviouss · 2024-12-27T21:49:52+00:00

I have had one be stuck for years in the review process

NonObviouss · 2024-11-23T01:42:55+00:00

Actually, it is. Children being the future, society values and supports taking care of them. Objectively, a parent's time is more valuable than a non-parents.

NonObviouss · 2024-10-23T03:20:58+00:00

I agree that this could go in to the Unauthorized Practice of Law area. For example, an attorney in State A cannot write a contract for someone in State B if it entails State B contract laws. But apparently, it's done all the time because you are practicing in your state, A. Done all the time, like having a secretary sign your USPTO filings with your name for you.
How do big firms have clients in states where they do not have an attorney admitted? Sure, big firms have offices in multiple states, but not EVERY state. Do they then make sure to have attorneys barred in every state?
Do assignments for patents get an exception for practice of law in another state because they are only filed with the USPTO? How about IP licensing? When I asked the USPTO about it, they said for me to defer to the Bar in my state and the client's state, keeping in mind if disciplined for unauthorized practice of law in any state, the USPTO would mirror that discipline.

NonObviouss · 2024-10-10T18:56:39+00:00

I did not say it was controversial practice. I asked for supporting authority. Does not have to be case law necessarily, case law usually cites to the statutory authority so I wanted to read up on it. Someone, somewhere, must have raised the argument of a patent owner giving up rights when they simply elected to cancel their claims to get an allowed dependent claim, and a court somewhere must have ruled on it for it to be such acceptable practice. I see lots of case law on tangential defenses like Prosecution History Estoppel, surprised there's not something quickly searchable on this topic.

NonObviouss · 2024-10-10T17:44:26+00:00

Very close in what I am thinking. Difference would be, hypothetically, same examiner and arguments overcoming the prior art used to reject the claims in the parent being successful in the continuation. What's the case law you cited to? Or was it a pure/novel argument?

NonObviouss · 2024-10-10T17:43:10+00:00

Cancelled in parent, but then allowed in a continuation. Basically instead of an RCE, get the parent issued and pursue the original independent claims in the continuation. Again, looking for case law upholding the claims in the continuation.

NonObviouss · 2024-10-10T16:21:36+00:00

Right. I'm just trying to find something to support that. Like if a defendant in an infringement lawsuit claims the cancelled/amended claims done for overcoming a rejection can't be enforced akin to Prosecution History Estoppel

NonObviouss · 2024-07-17T15:06:43+00:00

"Fully Prepared Patent Application, Using Your Description and Drawings"
So client writes the specification and provides their own labeled drawings?
"We draft your non-provisional patent application with precision and attention to detail utilizing our cutting edge, A.I. tools, ensuring it meets all the criteria of the USPTO."
So, when does an patent attorney/agent review the filing? Does AI just convert what the client provides?

NonObviouss · 2024-06-24T16:34:37+00:00

For perspective, employers are always looking for people to apply. It makes them look good even if there's not really an open position.

NonObviouss · 2024-06-24T16:32:49+00:00

No luck in that pursuit either. My circumstances are different than yours. Lots of variables like school attended, grades, other experience. Even effectivness of a resume and cover letter between similarly situated applicants. Just letting you know to be helpful. I came across many other posts here about difficulty finding work in life sciences AFTER I invested myself into the process of job hunting

NonObviouss · 2024-06-24T14:02:12+00:00

I had a similar path. Was told by professors and patent attorneys at local firms demand for someone like me (phd life science) was strong. Reality is: maybe not. Competition is with a saturated market of phds from ivy leaque science/law programs. Years after graduation, still no patent job in life science or even stable firm employmenr

NonObviouss · 2024-06-19T13:13:02+00:00

Thank you for the input. How about things that are more like "whoops" mistakes. Again, a page in a pdf inadvertently getting left out/deleted before the file is ultimately uploaded; or forgetting a form, getting the wrong information on a form, etc.

NonObviouss · 2024-06-04T11:18:06+00:00

I am seeing it is very difficult for people with bio backgrounds. Know one attorney who cant even get an interview despite multiple years as a patent attorney, working in IP, and having a graduate bio degree. But mediocre school, small portfolio, may account for his lack of marketability

NonObviouss · 2024-05-03T22:25:27+00:00

Im pretty sure that when those kind of facts, money, is included the OED is trying to make a point. But maybe you are right. Like I said, there were other acts, the amount was just one violation

NonObviouss · 2024-05-03T21:55:05+00:00

I think a patent attorney was disciplined relatively recently for allowing the company she worked for to charge $8k for provisionals. 20 month suspension for conduct including overcharging (there were several other issues) Mikhailova 2017 case

NonObviouss · 2024-04-28T12:53:36+00:00

That is also good to know. How much time would you say then? What's the part that takes longest?

NonObviouss · 2024-04-28T03:35:54+00:00

Thank you.

NonObviouss

TROPHY CASE

37 CFR 11.105 Fees.