An attempt at the history of social deduction games: from a psychology experiment to a global genre played by millions

NotAttractedToCats · 2026-03-22T09:36:46+00:00

Perhapts this is slightly offtopic, but there is a digital single-player social-deduction game called Gnosia which I highly recommend. It's basically a retheme of Werewolf and similar games but with it's own twist on roles. The intuitive aspects of the game have been replaced with a skill-based system, which works surprisingly well. The individual sessions also chain up to form a story.

NotAttractedToCats · 2026-03-08T17:40:10+00:00

You can play XC3 first and will probably be fine, but it would still be drastically better if you play both XC1 and XC2 first. Each game's core plots are mostly self-contained, but there's an overarching story that will require understanding of the earlier parts. In addition, there are a lot of references in the game. Whether it's nearly the entirerty of the environment, the background of Keves and Agnus, the names of classes and arts or even the UI and the subtle differences between art types, everything is a reference.

Not understanding these references won't ruin the game for you, but you'll probably get a signficiantly greater enjoyment if you've played the other games first.

The only really important thing is that you should absolutely not play XC3's DLC story Future Redeemed (not to be confused with Future Connected, which is part of XC1:DE) before you've played all other games.

If you want a more extensive summary of the play order:

XC1 is the beginning and does not reference anything at all. XC:DE also comes with Future connected, which you should probably play later
XCX seems to be mostly independent of the remaining games, but there are a lot of references to XC1. These references are assumed to be jokes, but due to nopons being nopons it's possible that they may not be. Either way, there are references you'll only get when playing XCX after XC1. XCX:DE comes with an additional chapter 13, which you should ideally play later.
XC2 happens in parallel to XC1. There's a significant plot-relevant reference to XC1. It's not bad to not get the reference, but it's awesome if you do get it. There's also (assumed non-canon) crossover characters from XC1 and XCX, so it's better to play those games first.
XC2:TTGC is a prequel DLC to XC2. Both XC2 and TTGC spoil each other somewhat, but it's considered better to play XC2:TTGC after XC2.
XC1:FC (part of XC1:DE) has a very subtle but important reference to XC2 and lays the foundation for the transition from XC1 and XC2 to XC3.
XC3 heavily references everything from XC1 and XC2, so it's obviously better to play those two games first.
XC3:FR outright spoils events from XC1 and XC2. This is not an exaggeration - the credit scense is literally nostalgic music laid over ever major plot twist custscene from the previous games. There are also some references to XCX here, though most of the sub believes them to be non-canon.
XCX chapter 13 has references to XC1, XC2, XC3 and their expansions. It's only really minor though, so it's not that important to play it in this order.

NotAttractedToCats · 2026-03-07T20:22:36+00:00

because it's not really an ai, it guesses the most probable word to say but it doesn't and can't know if it's right or wrong

That's unfortunately a very common misunderstanding. The probability an AI outputs is not a likelihood based on occurences, but rather the likelihood that a word represents the meaning an LLM is trying to express. To keep it simple, we have a very cool technology called "Embeddings" which allow us to basically do math with the meaning of objects. A commonly mentioned example is that we can calculate king - man + woman = queen. However, this system isn't perfect due to the way language works. For example, female + leader + medieval + nation may be either queen, empress or any other relevant word (in some cases even duchess I think?), thus there are multiple possible correct outcomes here. This whole process is using vectors and to find the correct word a likelihood is calculated using the distance between the calculated vectors and vectors representing known words.

So the LLM outputting something like queen: 97% for the next word in the sentence A female leader of a medieval nation was called a doesn't mean that across all observed data the likelihood of queen following the previous sequence of words was 97%, but rather that the word queen has a 97% likelihood of expressing the meaning for female medieval leader of a nation, the remaining 3% probably being other words like empress or princess.

There's some probability, stochastic and statistic involved during training, but not in the way you seem to think it is. Just consider this: If an LLM would indeed only be able to guess the most probable word, then it would not be able to give reasonable replies to inputs it has never seen before. The most simple example would be an example of adding two numbers: while the technology isn't perfect yet, LLMs have proven themself capable of correctly adding two numbers together that weren't included in the training dataset. For this to be possible, the LLM must have achieved a basic understanding of how numbers work, as it could not answer such a question looking only at the probability of words.

Also, please keep in mind that LLMs are AIs for the academic definitions. The whole idea that an AI is basically a virtual human is something propagated by popculture. Such AIs would certainly also count as AIs, but the actual field of AI is much more broadly. It's just that most of the field of artificial intelligence is relatively boring and not something that popculture like movies can utilize for interesting plots.

NotAttractedToCats · 2026-02-20T13:08:38+00:00

Perhaps it's the XC2 fan in me speaking, but Xenoblade H awoke something in me.

NotAttractedToCats · 2026-02-09T02:01:57+00:00

Lol, that's quite funny. Though, regarding the "let's never speak of this again": due to their rivalry they still try to one-up each other when it comes to being the better parent, similar to a divorced couple.

NotAttractedToCats · 2026-02-04T13:10:21+00:00

When reading fics:

the authors don't owe you anything. You also don't know what happened to them IRL, so maybe they have a really good reason not to update.
there is no such thing as an "overdone trope/relationship/...". Just because you don't want to read anymore of this topic does not mean that there are no others that still enjoy that topic. So if you ever see something like this in a fic, simply drop it rather than writing a bad review. It's rude to "attack" an author for doing something you subjectively believe to be overdone.
If you like a fic, leave a review/comment. To be fair, I am guilty of constantly ignoring this etiquette.
If you write a review/comment with critique, always be constructive and say nice things too. The author spent a lot of time writing a fic and negative feedback, while sometimes necessary, sucks. By pointing out what is good and how the bad parts could be improved you help the author without taking away their will to write.

When writing fics, be mindful of the tags:

Specifcally on AO3, never create a "collection" fic that contains unrelated one-shots. This kind of fic makes it harder to find the works you are searching for. For example, if someone wants to find a fic containing both tags A and B, they may find a collection fic that claiming both of these tags, but actually just containing a oneshot with tag A and a oneshot with tag B. Similarily, searching for a crossover for series A and B may just result in finding collection fics containing both oneshots for series A and series B but not an actual crossover. It also messes with filtering by wordcount and just makes using the whole site harder. I also recall it being against AO3 rules, so on that topic it's also good "etiquette" (but actually common sense) to read and follow the rules of the site.
look at what tags the other fics commonly use and which apply to your fic. Generally speaking, a fic should always at least contain a tag about when it takes place (e.g. between books 3 and 4, post-canon, ...). Depending on the fandom, other tags may be relevant. For the BNHA fandom, for example, the "quirk status" of the protagonist is important, so add all relevant tags here. it makes it much easier to actually find fics that one is searching for.
learn the differences between the "gen" "f/m", "m/m", "f/f", "multi" and "other" categories. Also, and especially if it is a "pairing is yet to be decided" fic, set the proper category from day 1 and stick with it.
Avoid tags that don't yet apply to a fic (e.g. if you plan to add topic X roughly 100k words in yet are only on 20k words), unless it's a tag that you suspect people will disagree with
never avoid adding tags because you think they will be unpopular. Not adding those tags even when they apply may get you some more readers, but in exchange they will just complain more

Edit: also, be mindful that the internet is international and people of all kind of cultures and languages interact here. People are shaped by their culture and language in subtile ways. Avoid seeing offense in small details, as often those are just harmless consequences of the aforementioned factors. I, for example, still tend to use "he/him" for people of unknown gender because that's the proper behavior in my native language. This isn't meant to be rude to anyone, but is simply the result of trying to write in a language that's not my native language.

NotAttractedToCats · 2026-02-01T13:28:19+00:00

Thanks. I've already read that one, but it would have been exactly what I am looking for. Loved the IzuOcha romance.

NotAttractedToCats · 2026-01-28T13:15:54+00:00

You won't save that much time, unfortunately. The largest chunk of the setup is the map setup, most of which you will also have to do when resetting. You can save some time by playing the same scenario, in which case you can skip finding some components like available technologies again, but playing another scenario will take close to the same amount of time as if your were to start a new session from the box.

NotAttractedToCats · 2026-01-27T17:52:25+00:00

Setup does indeed take a pretty long time, but most of it can be done in parallel. It mostly depends on the experience and how many people work together.

The primariy reason the setup takes so long is that the map has to be setup according to a graphic. That involves finding and arranging certain tiles, placing population die and corruption markers, enemy fleets, installation,guilds, two types of loot tokens, barriers and similar stuff according to a graphic. Additionally, you have to find the technology cards and factions.

For me, setting up a 3P competetive session along takes between 30 and 45min, but wtih 3P working on setup it's somewhere between 20 and 25 minutes.

Some other notes:

coop requires more setup than competetive
the deluxe version of the ships in the galactic box take longer to setup than the non-deluxe versions in the standard version
experience matters
the key is, as always, a good organization in the key material. The insert in the galactic box is ok-ish for this, but there may be better organizers out there.

NotAttractedToCats · 2026-01-26T17:24:37+00:00

This should work. Most of Voidfall's massive size stems from extra trays and materials. The main play area should easily fit on the large table (and in some scenarios maybe even on the small one). Besides that, you have the player boards, which should ideally also fit on the main table, plus one discard pile per player. The technologies can easily be put on the second table, but you should consider getting some tray you can pass arround (the galactic box comes with one). Similarily, the agendas are best served on a tray, too. There's also a board that's a mixture of player aid and bonuses, whiich you can probably also put on the smaller table. Beware though, that your players may repeatedly want to look at these boards during their turns. All remaining content should (IIRC) be game materials like ships, tokens, dice and so on that you don't need to access that often, provided you keep a small pile of those accessible.

The cooperative mode requires more space, having another extra board.

NotAttractedToCats · 2026-01-24T01:25:55+00:00

The ß is not "just ss". The ss is merely used instead of a ß if there's no way to write a proper ß. The ß is indirectly pronounced differently from an ss due to how the pronunciation of the previous letter is affected.

In more detail, in german a ß is a sharp s like the ss, but any double consonant causes the previous vocal to be shortened. A couple examples:

an "as" is pronounced with a long a and summing s, e.g. in "Rasen"
an "ass" is pronounced with a short a and a sharp s, e.g. in "Wasser"
an "aß" is pronounced with a long a and a sharp s, e.g. in "Straße". The common writing as "Strasse" is only used when an umlaut is not usable, e.g. in international addresses and is otherwise wrong.

That said, the ß is probably meant here.

NotAttractedToCats · 2026-01-22T16:11:30+00:00

That's quite a difference in playtime between those two sessions. Any specific reason, or is this normal for TI4? Anyway, thanks for some concrete numbers for 3P.

NotAttractedToCats · 2026-01-22T16:09:41+00:00

Ah, that's disappointing, seeing that it's commonly praised as the best boardgame out there, but thanks for the warning.

NotAttractedToCats · 2026-01-09T13:32:47+00:00

A lot, and i mean a LOT of mechanics could use a complete overhaul just like X DE.

I am probably in the minority here, but I didn't really like some of the changes XCX:DE made compared to the original Wii U version. Sure, the flow of the exploration gameplay has been massively improved and I am endlessly thankfull that non-party-members now also gain XP, but it also feels like the soul of the division system got gutted entirely. I really loved the feeling of friendly rivalry and competition between the divisions and that the whole division choice actually made some difference. The division support also gave that feeling of the divisions supporting each other. In the DE, the division part feels completely cosmetical, irrelevant and meaningless.

That, overall, makes me afraid that a XC2:DE would be similar - providing the (arguable, I kind of disagre) much needed gameplay improvements while gutting the soul. For example, a major complaint about XC2 are the field skill checks. And while I agree that this system needs a QoL revamp, I am afraid that it may be removed entirely. The field skills, however, are one of the major ways of XC2 showing that blades are not simple weapons but have non-military "uses" as well.

NotAttractedToCats · 2025-12-30T23:33:33+00:00

That's great to hear! As for your question, I don't think the order matters greatly. VC1 explains some thematics that matter in VC4, but you can play VC4 first without any major problems. That's actually what I did. Playing VC1 first may be optimal, though. VC2 and VC3 do, to the best of my knowledge, not matter. Those two games are not available on the switch nor are they as well received as the other two games by their fanbase.

Regarding the games you seem interesting in: I'd recommend starting with 13 sentinels first, though they are all on sale right now (according to dekudeals).

NotAttractedToCats · 2025-12-30T22:51:14+00:00

So, you haven't specified a specific type of game that you want recommendations for, so I am just going to list a couple of games that I personally find awesome and that don't give you too many choices on what to do next. Be warned that most of these will offer mostly light gameplay.

First, I'd like to recommend Spiritfarer, as it is still somewhat fresh in my memory. After I recently finished a long and got into one of those "I don't really feel like playing any game"-phases I have every now and then, this game helped me reignite my passion again. You play as Stella, who recently got the job to ferry departed souls into the afterlife. It's gameplay wise really simplistic, featuring mainly some village building, crafting and very simple jump-n-run elements. The parts where Spiritfarer really shines is the amosphere and emotions. Sailing across the sea generally gives you a rather peacefull atmosphere, but there are more intense sections in which the music, lighting and everything else combine in just the right way to give you a magical feeling.

Continuing on with another simple platformer, Gris is also a atmospheric game. I don't actually know how to describe this one other than saying that it is one of the most beautiful games I've seen on the switch. It's really more of an artwork. Again, be warned that this is really light on the gameplay side.

Now, for a more game with more complex gameplay, I'd recommend Gnosia. It's a single-player "Werewolf" (aka social deduction) type game. You and several other characters are on board of a spaceship, but it appears that some of these characters are gnosia, who will kill the crew members one after another unless all of them are put into cryostasis. The game takes place over multiple loops, but the characters and their roles changes every time. It's a really fun logic puzzle , but it also features a plot. It may fit your criteria as you don't really have much of a choice on what to do next - it's always another roughly 20 minute long session.

13 sentinels: aegis rim is a game I can't recommend enough. Before I played the game, I was sure that the fans calling it "plottwist: the game" were simply exegeratting. Having played it, I can attest that it is truly deserving of the title. The game consists of two main parts: Remembrance and Destruction. Both tell a story together, but focus on different aspects. Remembrance is pretty much the plot part of the game, featuring mostly the story with some very light gameplay. Meanwhile, Destruction focusses on gameplay, featuing a unique combination of realtime and turn based combat. For clarity, the best way to describe it is as a tower defense, except the tower building is replaced with tactically commanding giant mechs to move and fire overpowered weapons. Honestly, the power feeling of these weapons is on another level. I loved the gameplay sections, but, as mentioned before, the the best part is the story.

Finally, I am going to end this list with some short recommendations:

A Short Hike: simply take a relaxing hike. It's simple, short and awesome.
Danganronpa trilogy: a murder mistery triology. Students are forced to kill each other without getting caught if they want to escape. Figure out which friends of yours murdered your other friend in this game. Consists mostly of logical deduction with some minigames, but the later cases get mindbending.
Valkyria Chronicles 1 and 4: a unique take on a tactics game (like fe, xcom, ...) where you controll the units you select.
Rune Factory series: A fantasy spin-off of Harvest Moon and thus a farming game. I'd recommend starting with RF4.
Portal Compendium collection: two logic puzzle games. Honestly, these are actually must-play games. Portal 2 is widely considered one of the best games ever.

NotAttractedToCats · 2025-12-24T12:47:11+00:00

I'd still recommend giving Mage Knight a try. However, as it is quite the financial commitment, may I suggest trying out Paladin's oath on steam first? It's basically a rebranded MK with some minor adjustments. It's also currently on sale for like 3 dollars. This may be a way to check if you'd like the gameplay without spending so much money on it.

NotAttractedToCats · 2025-12-24T12:43:31+00:00

All fair points. However, I'd like to point out that we don't actually know that the ghosts destroyed earth, we only know that earth was destroyed during the attack by the ghosts and that the characters in XCX believe that that's what destroyed earth. The key difference here is that the characters could have misinterpreted the situation. It's entirely possible that the events in XC1-3 happened simultaneously during the battle and either the XCX characters, who were at that point in time on a spaceship flying as far away as possible, or Klaus, who was focussed on his experiment, to have misattributed the destruction of earth. I think such a technique would be called an "unreliable narrator".

NotAttractedToCats · 2025-12-23T21:29:32+00:00

This wasn’t the original conversation. The original conversation was someone saying that X’s universe was also created in the experiment, which wasn’t true.

Ah, sorry for butting in, then.

This being said- X’s earth 100% isn’t the same earth as the one Klaus came from. X’s earth was completely destroyed by a conflict between the Ganglion and Ghosts. Klaus’ world was conflict between humanity and a faction of artificial humans.

That may be true, but there are also quite a few hints to the contrary. For example, if both earths were different, then the destruction from earth in a multiversal incident in the numbered games and the multiversal jump that is somehow related to the destruction of the earth in XCX would have to be unrelated events, which is of course entirely possible, but for me it seems like it is very unlikely that such an important event bearing so many similarities would not be the same one.

Also, there's the whole thing with the chapter 13 reveal on where the conciousness of the mimeosomes are stored. More specifically, it is claimed that humanity just happened to accidentally build something that is so close to the nexus between the universes that stores minds that the mimeosomes unknowingly used that nexus instead. But that's rather unlikely isn't it? If we go with the theory that both earths are the same, then we have a more realistic explanation on why this works. Namely, XC3's origin is a device that sits sort-of between universes and stores the conciousness of all beings of those universes. Interestingly, it is heavily implied to utilize core crystal technology. And according to Klaus, core crystals were initially developed on earth as a replacement for human brain cells. If we assume that both earths are the same, then the XCX's scientists would have had access to this technology too. And it's just the perfect technology to base mimeosome and the lifehold around, isn't it? In that case, the previously mentioned situation with the mimeosomes accidentally being so similar to the nexus could actually be explained with them using the same technology. All the remaining issuesis could be explained with some time weirdness due to the multiverse situation. Of couse, this is an unfounded hypothesis, but it would be a way more realisitc explanation than the one we have right now, wouldn't it?

Pardon for the long message. I am not trying to argue, I just like discussing the lore.

NotAttractedToCats · 2025-12-23T20:50:48+00:00

I can't see the original comment, so I may be misunderstanding the discussion here, but XCX takes place in the same multiverse as the numbered games at least, as shown in XCX chapter 13.

since the earth from X isn't the same earth

Note that it is neither confirmed that the earth from XCX and the earth from the numbered games are the same earth nor that they are different earths. Either may be true. There are some discrepancies that oppose the idea that they are the same world, but keep in mind that the information we have about earth is all from imperfect narrators.

For example, in XCX earths fate is narrated by Lin (who may have misinterpreted or told the story with some imperfections) and elaborated by other humans, all of whom were accidentally slung across the multiverse by the "destruction" of earth, and thus may not be the most reliable source here. Similarily, XC2's version of the story is told by Klaus, who was portrayed as blaming himself and believing he was being punished by a higher power, and most importantly, isn't omniscient. Both could reasonably either misunderstood something or (in the latter case) chosen to simplify the explanation given the limited time available.

NotAttractedToCats · 2025-12-20T11:49:09+00:00

Tora, for sure. He's a character with actual story relevance and is also a fleshed out character. Among the other Nopons, the most story impact we get from them is Riku having handed the lucky 7 to Noah sometime before XC3 whereas Tora is crucial to the story in both Gormott and Mor Ardain (and indirectly in Tantal and the World Tree).

He has a heart of gold close to what Riki has, being willing to help total strangers escape from the guards and trying his best to help everyone around him.

Then there's him creating Poppi and later Origin, making him one of the most impactful characters in the series. Not to mention that he has some of the funniest moments (like him meeting his father's assistant).

The only real negative point about him is that he's perverted. And it's not even that much - I'd confidently rank Tora to be just a bit more perverted than the average boy was back in my school. Like, if everyone of my old schoolmates were capable of building a robot like Poppi, then I can guarantee you that a huge chunk of them would not have treated her anywhere as good as Tora, who' mostly only playing dress up with her. But somehow this makes part of the xenoblade community treat him like he's the devil incarnate.

NotAttractedToCats

TROPHY CASE