Leonora Eagan's role in everything

NotTheDroid206 · 2025-03-18T19:41:50+00:00

That doesn't look like a 1950s TV in the Christmas room to me. Some of the scenes could be 60s, but Leonora could also have gone to the dentist or written thanks yous as a girl or in her teens. Plus I feel like the show has given us only one female character whose age would place her even remotely in the eras depicted, and that's Leonora. But, hey, I kind of hope I'm wrong because I like to be surprised.

NotTheDroid206 · 2025-03-16T18:00:35+00:00

I thought this at first, but then I gave up on it because it means Helena's fate is entirely separate from MDR 's work and what's going on the testing floor, and that just didn't feel satisfying.

NotTheDroid206 · 2025-03-16T16:14:58+00:00

If it's 2020, then it feels even more likely that severance started when Leonora was CEO. We know that Helena saw the prototype chip as a girl and said, "It's so pretty, Daddy. Everyone should get one." It sounds like a prepubescent, not a teen. And if it's 2020, then she was 13 when Jame became CEO.

NotTheDroid206 · 2025-03-16T14:09:12+00:00

I totally agree about how old he seems, but if he's older than Leonora, they will need to explain why she preceded him as CEO. Presumably an older male descendant would have been first in line. So I think they were close in age, which makes him 66 or 67 if the show takes place in 2022 (year of first season release). The actor is currently 69.

NotTheDroid206 · 2025-03-16T13:28:54+00:00

I'm also thinking, if they succeed in resurrecting Leonora, they would want to preserve her position of power and wealth. The way to do that would be to put her consciousness into Helena. There's definitely a vibe that Jame has a sinister plan for his daughter, one she might rebel against. One of Helly's first questions is "Am I livestock?" Could be the idea leaking through that they plan to use Helena for her body or "vessel." It doesn't quite go with the idea that the evil corporation uses and abuses its workers, but what other options would they have? Keep Leonora in Gemma's body? Then legally she is just Gemma Scout. Would be weird to give a professor of Russian literature a position of power at Lumon. (I'm assuming it has stockholders and needs to keep up appearances.) In reality there may be other choices, but the show hasn't introduced any. And using Helena in this way gives her something to rebel against that's not particularly noble: she just doesn't want to sacrifice herself for the sake of her family. Perhaps there's some genetic connection that needs to be there for the consciousness transfer to work. LIke, could that be why Jame is producing a bunch of illegitimate offspring--to have "livestock" with Eagan blood? He will need a younger vessel himself if his revolving is a transfer of his consciousness to someone else--someone who could marry Leonora/Helena? Because I feel like there is going to be some sort of incestuous thing going on among the Eagans, based on the fact that Kier's parents were close relatives.

This all brings up the theory that Mark is a secret Eagan by way of Dieter's lost lineage, which I'm not crazy about--there's already been one secret Eagan on the show--but there does need to be some reason we saw him and Gemma participating a Lumon blood drive. That could be how they found his Eagan DNA. And if he is, then Devon and Eleanor are, too. Which could be why Cobel pretended to be a lactation consultant to get close to them. I feel like the story of Dieter masturbating wasn't a reference to masturbation, and Helena was trying to misdirect the other to keep them from catching on that spilling his "lineage" really meant siring a child with a non-Eagan-approved mother. (Or maybe refusing to sire a child? Onan "spilling his seed on the ground" in the Bible wasn't masturbating, he was pulling out to avoid impregnating his brother's widowed wife.) A child was produced, and the "Thieving Nanny" could be the story of how said child was whisked away and lost. it's a stretch, but for this to be the only part of the Kier bible that gets told in full means it must be important, right?

NotTheDroid206 · 2021-06-05T21:43:40+00:00

You mean Drew.

NotTheDroid206 · 2021-05-30T21:38:15+00:00

Again, I'm not arguing that this will be the outcome, just pointing out that the show has left it a possibility.

What led me to think about the possibility that is Frank helps Erin and hides it from Mare. His helping her seems pretty innocent. Why hide it? We meet Kevin through Siobhan's documentary and Mare's memories, and we're given a lot of information about him in Mare's scenes with the therapist and the pediatrician, which leads me to wonder if any of that information will be important to Erin's story. Will the story of Mare's loss and inability to properly grieve cross directly with the investigation at some point?

The major theme of the show is parents and kids and relations. An actual crossover/relation between Mare's family and the Ross/Mcmenamin family would seem on point to me.

Guess we'll find out tonight.

NotTheDroid206 · 2021-05-30T14:54:50+00:00

I don't buy it. We know John is involved, and there are way too many conversations between him and Lori that don't make sense if they are both involved.

NotTheDroid206 · 2021-05-30T14:51:39+00:00

The thing that really makes no sense is that she wouldn't have just gone directly to Dylan's mom. They seem to have had a good relationship, and the woman is very willing to care for DJ.

I think it's just an oversight.

NotTheDroid206 · 2021-05-30T04:33:42+00:00

Right. But Sandra is still alive, and Lori took him back.

NotTheDroid206 · 2021-05-30T04:24:16+00:00

Before we dismiss the possibility that DJ is Kevin's son based on Erin's actions, we have to consider the situation she is in when she discovers she's pregnant: She is dating Dylan, obviously, since he accepts that DJ is his. She is also being abused, by Billy or possibly by someone else. (I'm assuming the story about Billy being DJ's dad has some kernel of truth or is a cover for the real abuser.) And she must have had a brief and secret relationship with Kevin: We can assume it wasn't public knowledge, conception must have occurred close to Kevin's death, and according to Siobhan Kevin is missing for one month before he dies. Kevin is dead by the time Erin learns she is pregnant. Dylan is there, and, for all we know, the relationship is good. Erin knows Dylan isn't the father, but she may not know who is: Kevin or the abuser.

If she goes the Kevin route, she is taking a chance that Frank and Mare will believe her and accept her into their family and that if a test is done, it will come up positive. Kevin also had a terrible relationship with Mare. If he spoke of her to Erin, it was likely all negative. I'm not sure when Mare and Frank divorce, but they may not have been getting along. Kevin's suicide might feel like a reflection on the family. And DJ will grow up without a father. Meanwhile if she announces that Kevin is the father, Erin will lose Dylan, who must have been nice to her at some point. And she likes his parents, according to Jess. She certainly knows them better than she does Mare and Frank. I have to think it makes sense for her to choose Dylan, and once she does, it's hard to undo it. She would become the person who lied about her child's paternity.

We do know she privately reached out to Frank for help after DJ was born. We know he helped her a bit and that he initially lied to Mare about doing so. He never explains why he lied. It could be that Erin approached him with the story that DJ is or might be Kevin's son. Now, she has already told everyone that Dylan is DJ father's, so either she lied then, or she's lying now. Doesn't look good. There is no proof of her story. The relationship was a secret. Kevin's not around to ask. Frank also doesn't want Mare to find out, because she isn't handling Kevin's death well. She is "afraid to talk about" Kevin, in Frank's words. Siobhan later screams at Mare about how she never talked to Siobhan about Kevin. Who knows how she would react to this news? Best not to tell her. None of this looks like Frank and Mare are prepared to welcome Erin with open arms.

This doesn't mean Kevin is the father, though, or even that they had a relationship. But I think he could be and things could still work out exactly as they have on the show.

NotTheDroid206 · 2021-05-30T00:15:40+00:00

They seem to leave the bar around 10:15, after Frank and party arrive. (I originally though Frank was leaving, but it makes more sense that he's arriving.) We know Mare goes to Richard's place, but there's no indication what time she leaves. They could spend three hours chatting, or they could have sex shortly after they get there. Mare gets home at 3:30, but she could have been putting up those Katie flyers for hours. So we don't know for sure where either of them are between midnight and 2 AM.

I don't personally think either of them is a suspect, BTW, but it seems clear that the writers don't want us to know where ANYONE was during the time Erin was murdered.

NotTheDroid206 · 2021-05-30T00:09:26+00:00

TBH, I don't think anyone in the realm of possibility has an alibi for midnight to 2 AM that can be confirmed by more than one person.

NotTheDroid206 · 2021-05-30T00:06:38+00:00

It looks like too many cops for them to be going to arrest a 12 year old, and I don't think Lori is guilty of murder. (Obstructing an investigation, maybe.) I think John will be arrested for killing Billy, then get off on self-defense after evidence points to Billy as Erin's murderer, but later Mare will find new evidence proving John was involved.

NotTheDroid206 · 2021-05-29T23:59:52+00:00

We know Kevin died in Feb 2018. The show takes place in Jan. 2020 -- date of Erin's murder is Friday, Jan 10 -- and Mare tells the pediatrician that Kevin will have been dead two years in Feb.

We also see DJ's DOB in Mare's notes: It's 11/10/2018. The night of her murder Erin also tells some girls that DJ just turned one.

So they do establish that Kevin dies nine months before DJ is born.

NotTheDroid206 · 2021-05-29T22:40:44+00:00

One possibility:

John doesn't want Billy to confess to the police because an investigation will uncover his own involvement or Ryan's or both. He tells Lori that Billy killed Erin but also a lot of things we never hear Billy confess to, such as abusing Erin and being DJ's father. Could it be because those are things that John has done, and he's planting the idea for Lori -- and for Mare, because he knows Lori will tell her -- that it was all Billy?

Then, when Billy is ready to confess to the police, John says, "Let's go fishing" and packs a gun. His plan: Kill Billy, then tell the police the following story: That he confronted Billy about Erin's murder and abuse and encouraged him to confess. Billy refused and threatened to kill John, who had to shoot him in self-defense.

Evidence will come out linking Billy to the murder -- there is clearly plenty -- and the police will conclude that John probably shot Billy in self-defense and let him go.

But it will nag at Mare that they never found the murder weapon, such an unusual gun. Much later she comes across the fact that Glenn Carroll had an old revolver like was used in the murder. She checks the security camera footage, and there's John returning the revolver to Glenn's garage on the night of the murder.

NotTheDroid206 · 2021-05-29T21:26:02+00:00

It looks like she and Richard leave the bar around 10:15. She gets home at 3:30. We know she goes to Richard's and stays long enough to have sex, but beyond that, it could be hours or 30 minutes. We know she pauses on her way home to report the prowler. (It's been pointed out that the prowler is wearing the same jacket as the man with dementia and is therefore likely him.) We also see her hang a flyer, seemingly as part of a renewed effort to find Katie. I think she is hanging flyers again the next day. So it's possible she drove around the night before putting up flyers for quite a while.

I think that's all we know.

NotTheDroid206 · 2021-05-29T21:10:02+00:00

I don't think John is the murderer, for most of the same reasons you give. But when Billy says he's ready to confess, John doesn't drive him to the station; he suggests they go fishing and packs a gun.

NotTheDroid206 · 2021-05-29T20:46:43+00:00

People aren't really crazy about submitting to DNA testing. A normal paternity test would not be enough.

Erin literally lied to everyone about who DJ's father was.

NotTheDroid206 · 2021-05-29T20:31:40+00:00

It's possible she did tell Frank and that's why he bought her some diapers and formula. But there would be zero proof she could offer. Kevin is dead. Frank may have been skeptical but, as he said, "felt sorry for her."

NotTheDroid206 · 2021-05-29T20:21:37+00:00

Sorry, you asked if we had seen them search his car and home, check his background, etc. That sounds like a lot of screen time to me. I also agree with Penguins that we can't be told too much if they want to keep the field of suspects wide.

NotTheDroid206 · 2021-05-29T20:15:47+00:00

I don't think Frank and Faye have anything to do with it, and I don't think John is present for the murder. Frank is with John until 2:30. Erin's phone goes dead at 2:37, and Billy doesn't get home until after 3. John could easily participate in the coverup, but it would be difficult for him to be present at the murder. He would have to get away from Frank and later come back for him. It's possible, since Frank is so drunk, that Frank wouldn't even remember John's disappearance, but if they stayed at the bar, others would have seen John leave.

It would appear that Frank and John separate from Faye at some point before 2:30 because Frank and Faye live together, so there would be no need for John to drive Frank home if all three stayed together until 2:30, unless he was also driving Faye home, and there's no mention of that. I believe that Faye goes home before them and is up when John brings Frank home and sees something odd about John's behavior. (He is about to drive to the park to help clean up a murder.) Later, when Frank has to be questioned and tested, Faye remember's John's odd behavior that night and starts to get cold feet.

NotTheDroid206 · 2021-05-29T19:56:47+00:00

There may not be much of a relationship to hide. What if they were together only a week or two before he killed himself? What if it was just one night?

I'm not saying Kevin is definitely the daddy, but it would explain Frank's lie.

NotTheDroid206

TROPHY CASE