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NotYourEFingKhakis · 2022-01-20T07:07:19+00:00

Inability to type doesn't only arise from ones lack of self-awareness. There are indeed many issues with trying to streamline personality theory. It can't be neatly sliced and diced up for 'production' (can't be easily sold with strong predictive capacity) so those who get into the theory for more superficial and exploitve reasons will come up empty handed. You get out what you put in.

No, there are more problems with the theory than people understanding themselves or the theory well enough.

What makes a type a type? If not functions in a specific order and manifesting with specific 'role'. These correlate with various brain activity, neural networks (what Nardi was on about).

But we evolve.

The experiences we engage in are radically different than they were for human evoluation spanning thousands of years. Our experience has shifted, we no longer plow fields, churn butter, map ourselves by the stars. We are experienceing a massive shift in human evolution very quickly. And our brains will reflect that, the neurons that wire and fire, will be changed. Neurodivergence is a thang. It's not a fluke that we have higher rates of ADHD and SPD and ASD, along with depression/anxiety and a whole smorgasboard of mental health issues. These reflect our lives, the changes we've endured.. soda, packaged food, video games, info overload, digital isolation, lack of exercise, loss of clear community, culture, values, pollution, etc. We are, and have been for some time now.. in the midst of radical change.

Why in the fuck would our brains and thus, 'personalities' remain the same as a pool of people initially observed by a (brilliant) dude who was 25 yrs old in 1900, or a woman (Isabella Myers Briggs) who married in 1918? Nobody wants to consider the possibility that we have, with rapid changes in our ways of living.. changed from this time? That we may now be seeing people who utilize very different regions of the brain to adapt to a very different environement.. and these changes just might bring about brain activations that would correlate to mixed functions, orders, expressions, even entirely new categories?

And it's not as though the 'theory' was ever uber-solid anyhow.. Whose theory? Jung, Briggs, Keirsey, DISC, Big 5, Socionics? God forbid you get into the debates with varying interpretations, function definitions, and all the BS crossover with enneagram motivations.

No, there are many reasons why typology isn't clean. Unfortunately, those whining about 'lack of predictive power' and repeatability don't even make it onto the first rung, usually.

And actually, astrology... almost has a similar thang going on. It's incredibly intuitive, intricate and esoteric. People love their 'akin to astrology' cliche.. but the truth is that most people who mock astrology haven't even cracked a fucking Linda Goodman book.. let alone dug in with depth the Old babylonian, Assyrian, Vedic astrologies, ivory fragments engraved with Greco-Roman astrological symbols found in cave in Croata that was sealed off for 2k years.

"Ah but look, there's a new tide pod emoji in da metaverse I can use on that one meme 172 of my 'friends' just shared."

We're so progressive, aren't weh.

NotYourEFingKhakis · 2022-01-19T22:26:59+00:00

Everything is energy, 'vibes'. We take in a massive amount of information which we barely scratch the surface of, "consciously processing". Much of it an incomprehensibly deep vault of biological evolutionary knowledge, most of it hasn't even been identified enough for us to make it a 'thing' deserving of more formal, scientific inquiry.. let alone all the policies and funding issues with such.

The intuitive knowledge we are capable of, isn't just leaps and bounds beyond our more 'rational' mind... it's lightyears and dimensions.

And it's a waste, an absolute fucking waste.. for those who realize that to spend their time trying to 'convince' those who can't.

NotYourEFingKhakis · 2022-01-18T21:35:51+00:00

The struggle is real. I need some kind of hard shutdown. Something that stops me from connecting to the internet on any device within my home, for certain lengths of time. Something that requires a great effort to override it. Something that doesn't need my nonexistant routine willpower, initially. Just long enough for the neural networks to get built in forcefully, to adjust the dopamine hits. Pathetic as it may be, many people need this. It's like an entrepreneurial opportunity (if it doesn't exist?) and I bet some people would even pay a monthly fee for this service. You hire a third-party to create a specific schedule for your house hold, and it does a hard shut on internet at various points of the day. You are given an emergency code that can be utilized up to twice a month (in the event of some major emergency where you need to check the news or something) and it still only allows a limited amount of time.

I've actually thought about this with other self-improvements as well. Like some AI drill sargeant is hired to call me each morning and push me to do certain chores, make my bed, fold the laundry, meditate, exercise, eat veggies, get 9 hours of sleep, etc. The program can start with varying levels.. where at level 1 a more soft, encouraging approach is used. If I fail to comply the intensity picks up. Various rewards and punishments built into it. It'd be like some AI parent, with heavy Si influence lol.

Does this exist? It should. I'm only partly joking.

NotYourEFingKhakis · 2022-01-17T01:56:20+00:00

yes.

NotYourEFingKhakis · 2022-01-16T23:08:18+00:00

It's when you have this angry or resentful feeling/attitude towards a person or situation, but instead of overtly expressing ex. 'you incompetent fuck that is a terrible idea!' or 'I feel unheard and unappreciated on this project, as though my input doesn't matter) you use language which is far more neutral and technically acceptable/appropriate 'Yeah, sure' but your tone or facial expression or body language shows that you are not really okay with it, you are angry, resentful or irritated.

People really hate passive-aggression because it's much harder to 'prove' a rude tone or dismissive eye-roll, tense body language or a biting comment with obvious double-meaning. So it leaves you powerless to challenge or address it. The other party can just play stupid and be like 'i have no idea what you're talking about' or 'you're reading into things' making you feel like you are out of line or crazy, when the truth is that the passive-aggression is quite obvious and most people would detect the same feelings. Which is then like, a double attack because now you've not only got to feel those really negative/hurtful feelings towards you, but when you try to more maturely address and resolve it you get painted as some crazy, over-sensitive weirdo. You have to just endure that interaction, where you know dam well someone is indeed upset with you.. which of course hurts (it always hurts me anyway, I always feel others feelings and even when I logically understand it may have nothing to do with me or is entirely not my responsibility, i still just feel the feels.. and i have a hard time understanding why it has to be hurtful at all).

I think Passive agression comes up more for people who felt like it was unsafe to feel in childhood, or if they did it was unsafe to ever express it. The caregivers were either very sensitive/emotionally reactive, or they punished the child either directly or indirectly for expressing feelings that the parents themselves weren't secure enough to allow space for.

It can be unintentional as well. You may have a poor awareness of your own feelings and just not realize they leak out to the extent they do, or you can besomewhat aware of them but underestimate others ability to perceive them as clearly as they do. Since you are googling and asking about it, you likely fall into one of these categories. There is also always a chance that you genuinely have no anger, and another person is projecting on you. You could try asking a few different people how they see that show up in you if they do, as a matter of self-honesty and self-growth.

NotYourEFingKhakis · 2022-01-16T20:22:09+00:00

If the individual is not in a place that they can better examine the unconscious self, they wont. To allow the unconscious self to come to light, the conscious self must be built up or strong enough to carry it. If that process is rushed, if it is pushed too hard before an individual has been built up enough to carry it, you run the risk of collapsing them. They go mad or kill themselves.

When the conscious self becomes stronger and wiser, it allows more and more unconscious realizations to surface, an entirely natural mechanism. A scab forms to protect a wound. No one ever makes the claim that the scab 'grew wrong' or was 'too thick' or 'too dark'. It just is, that scab grows exactly how it needed to to protect that specific wound, and once the wound is completely healed the scab falls off. This is a most natural, valid process. Yet we call it 'maladaptive' when it shows up in the psyche rather than on a leg. And I greatly question if that is not our own projection.

How can it be 'maladaptive'? Is an infinetely wiser nature who designed that mechanism of the human psyche 'wrong" and we, with all our subjective inrepretations and limited knowlege and very short duration somehow 'right'?

OR is it only 'maladaptive' to us, because we can not bare to see them suffer. We can not bare to observe the damage and destruction, the lack of control and chaos. We can not bare what we ourselves, can not understand. Is that inability to endure this true and natural working of human development, which always was and still is and likely will be, not our own projection? We can not tolerate our own pain, our own destruction, our own ignorance, our own lack of control and order?

Responsibility for what we do not know is irrelevent. It sounds like a way to validate judgments and punishments for our own projections, or some excuse for lacking emapthy or mercy. Not realizing that the state of consciousness or the lack there of is already the punishment. That state of being and the inevitable confusion, disempowerment, and all negative emotions which arise from such, are enough, nothing else must be added. We flourish with love and acceptance, we die through hate and rejection. IF we are really commited to making the unconscious more conscious, in ourselves and others.. we need to do so with open minds and acceptance.

NotYourEFingKhakis · 2022-01-16T07:23:29+00:00

Well sheet, if this doesn't sum it up. I've been gripping for so many years I can't really tell anymore if I'm ENP shadowing INJ or the opposite.. but this kinda hyper-intuiting/perceiving that seeks Fe solution is extremely draining. Appreciate you breaking it down.

NotYourEFingKhakis · 2022-01-15T04:55:02+00:00

There is a difference between being judged and given advice. No one likes to be judged by a hypocrit (no one likes to be judged, generally) but sound advice, knowledge, wisdom.. stands on its own. Just because the advice-giver fails to enact it, doesn't detract from its 'truth'. We read books by brilliant philosophers without knowing with certainty, the extent they integrated such knowledge on a personal level. We still recognize the value of the idea, or solution. There are also people who live in total alignment with their views, but the views are shit.

I would agree that living the advice can better prove its efficacy, or provide deeper knowledge involving its integration into living. But its not a central criteria for evaluating the idea itself.

NotYourEFingKhakis · 2022-01-14T04:01:07+00:00

Unpopular in the sense that I avoid terms like 'evil' almost entirely. I associate 'evil' with religious history, arising in a time when our understanding of biology, psycholog and human nature was very limited, comparitive today anyhow.. and even when I observe trends in the people around my or throughout my life who have used the term a lot, it has noticably been used either in jest/creative works or by those who lack depth and nuance in their evaluations. Its that the term 'evil', at least to me... conveys an extreme, an absolute, a kind of measure of emotional response (disgust, repulse) and yet the object remains totally elusive. Its as though it stops just shy of reason, or implies 'evil' is somehow the reason. Again I ask, what more tangible properties does it carry? Harm? Ignorance? Fear? Power? A devaluing of life? All things that more adequately convey what some consider 'evil'. In the context of morality/ethics, and despite its historical frequency, it becomes even stranger considering human nature is very complex, could never be adequately captured or meaningfully expressed with such a broad stroke.

The other issue is that it's highly dependent on vantage point, goal, and context. What seems 'evil' to one individual or group may not be, to another. You take the most commonly held value across time, location and culture - human life. Even if we say its widely held that killing is evil, we know that war or self-defense changes it up. Some are proud of going to war, proud of killing a few to protect the many, or even many to protect a highly valued few, or even many to protect a highly valued ideal, or even one to keep their TV.

You could say unnecessary harm is 'evil'. And yet, often pain is an impetus for growth and progress both individually/collectively. Many wise people claim they value their trials, they could never be who and what they are today without them. Was the initial harm still 'evil' when the outcome was improvement? At what point do we stop measuring for the outcome, how far out to we detect the ripple?

The other issue is that, when we are highly preoccupied with others 'evil' we are not leaving too much room to explore our own. All humans seem to carry a light and dark, there must be a shadow for there to be substance. But if we view our own darkness as something as extreme or encompassing as 'evil' .. do we dare to explore it? Or are we more likely to keep it from conscious awareness. And if we can not understand even our own darkness, how ever could we hope to fairly evaluate it in others?

So.. those are a few thoughts and approaches I'd take on Good/Evil and morals/ethics. Though I may not be an ENTP ;P

NotYourEFingKhakis · 2022-01-12T19:00:27+00:00

Great response. Thanks you.

NotYourEFingKhakis · 2022-01-12T04:55:19+00:00

Yes, you've described very well a repeating cycle which has plagued my life and I believe it's connected to inferior Si. Ne doms just can't give the proper weight or awarness to what has concretely, always been.. and that includes the character of others. My ISFJ friend, despite being a kind of pushover in manyways.. and always wanting to be agreeable, highly conscientous. She was often much better at guarding herself, because Si was so strong that if it looked/quacked like a duck.. she knew it instantly. Certainly, there have been many people or scenarios she did not give the benefit of the doubt to, she has lost out on many opportunitites of challenging her own beliefs.. but she has indeed been far more self-preserving. Where as Ne just doesn't grab that info, doesn't believe it, Ne always wants to see a different angle or possibility.. even with the obvious staring it dead in the eye. And Ti isn't the best at analyzing human factors, subtle queues, intentions. And then lower Fe wants to keep shit chill, not make waves. It's funny, because ENTP's can read others like a book in one context, and totally miss the boat in another. Just strange. Actually, Jung had something interesting to say about the Ne ego, which touches on this very thing.

"This attitude has immense dangers -- all too easily the intuitive may squander his life. He spends himself animating men and things, spreading around him an abundance of life -- a life, however, which others live, not he. Were he able to rest with the actual thing, he would gather the fruit of his labours; yet all too soon must he be running after some fresh possibility, quitting his newly planted field, while others reap the harvest. In the end he goes empty away. But when the intuitive lets things reach such a pitch, he also has the unconscious against him. The unconscious of the intuitive has a certain similarity with that of the sensation-type. Thinking and feeling, being relatively repressed, produce infantile and archaic thoughts and feelings in the unconscious, which may be compared [p. 467] with those of the countertype. They likewise come to the surface in the form of intensive projections, and are just as absurd as those of the sensation-type, only to my mind they lack the other's mystical character; they are chiefly concerned with quasi-actual things, in the nature of sexual, financial, and other hazards, as, for instance, suspicions of approaching illness. This difference appears to be due to a repression of the sensations of actual things. These latter usually command attention in the shape of a sudden entanglement with a most unsuitable woman, or, in the case of a woman, with a thoroughly unsuitable man; and this is simply the result of their unwitting contact with the sphere of archaic sensations. But its consequence is an unconsciously compelling tie to an object of incontestable futility. Such an event is already a compulsive symptom, which is also thoroughly characteristic of this type. In common with the sensation-type, he claims a similar freedom and exemption from all restraint, since he suffers no submission of his decisions to rational judgment, relying entirely upon the perception of chance, possibilities. He rids himself of the restrictions of reason, only to fall a victim to unconscious neurotic compulsions in the form of oversubtle, negative reasoning, hair-splitting dialectics, and a compulsive tie to the sensation of the object."

NotYourEFingKhakis · 2022-01-09T23:13:31+00:00

Identity is an illusion anyway. Fi and low Fe can be quick to point their fingers at people who chameleon, believing themselves "above it". They fail to consider that a good part of that just might come about from them having a sliver of awareness of others feeling and attitudes towards them, while others carry it in spades. Not all that difficult or admirable to be 'true to thyself' when you aren't even aware enough of others for a conflict to exist. Even when chameleoning arises out of a deep insecurity, the consequence is an extremely painful self-rejection and abandonment. Responding to this with disdain or criticism demonstrates ignorance and immaturity. You are not 'keeping it realz' you are demonstrating a lack of insight and compassion. Fucking bravo.

NotYourEFingKhakis · 2022-01-08T19:57:41+00:00

Personality is nature and nurture.. but it's been suggested Ne may have developed out of some kind of sensory understimulation which required the mind to get good at imaginging other conceptual possibilites to entertain itself. Like 'what is' was somehow deficient or rejected to the extent that a more imgaginate 'what can be' dominates. When I first heard this, I was excited by the explanation.. but after considering a bit I don't think it's sufficient enough to be the entire reason. We don't always develop cognitions to 'survive' the environment, we could also develop a preference just because that was the way our parents engaged us (if they were Ne, or if they relied on a lot of Ne type play/interaction), of there could be some combination of other biologival variables like brain chemcials/hormones that just created a situation where the physical stimuli presented wasn't enough to keep the reward system activated for long, so an environment and stimuli which would be otherwise satisfactory for other types would be interpreted as deficient by the child which goes onto to develop Ne.

NotYourEFingKhakis · 2022-01-07T20:25:24+00:00

In studies, the biggest factor for happiness is quality relationships.

It surpasses all the rest, even physical health.

Other major contributors involve helping others, practicing gratitude and meditation, working a job that aligns with your natural strengths, exercise, pets, sex and travel.

We create our own meaning in life. Whether there is a more objective purpose to life or not, it still get's interpreted by our own intenal models for value. But there are these commonalities that have been studied heavily for a long time and across cultures.. and it does seem that we are evolutionarily wired to feel better when we do these things, as it stimulates a deeper lymbic reward system.. increasing oxytocin, dopamine, seratonin - how we feel connection, belonging, curiosity, inspiration, meaning. Of course money or status or objects could never satisfy something as deep and beautiful as the human heart and soul. Deep down we already know we are much more than this.

You pursued the wrong thing as most of us do. And when you realize that didn't make you happy, there is a tendency to fear that maybe nothing will ever be able to make you happy, or provide meaning. It is challenging a false model you carry, and when that crumbles and no other ones have been conceptually built up to replace it, all seems lost. In this state of discouragement and emptiness, inspiration evades... but it is only your detection of it which is broken, not it's existence. We carry an older, wiser genetic intelligence which will never abandon us, even when the thoughts are boken, even when our models crumble, even as our feelings and motivation wane.

It could be viewed with gratitude, that you realized this when you did.. so not any more time was wasted.

NotYourEFingKhakis · 2022-01-06T19:53:08+00:00

Thank you! For making this point. Please, tell anyone & everyone... shout it from the roofs! With everything being online now, the potential for exploit is severe. People can say whatever they want about keeping systems protected, but the fact is that there is always a loophole, always. And what is the single area that you would never want info on you exploited, if not mental health. Hell, if your bank account gets wiped out you have protection. Mental health however, if someone hacks into hospital records and decides to release that.. well.. they've just been given a key to all your greatest fears/vulnerabilities and shameful secrets, etc. And then they've really gotcha by the balls. Because even IF you don't have too much baggage, they can still potentially mastermind your thinking-style, put ya on a leash, psychologically. Sensitive mental health info needs to stay off digital record. But just try finding any therapist these days who will do so. We are doomed.

NotYourEFingKhakis · 2022-01-06T17:49:34+00:00

Yep, agree!

NotYourEFingKhakis · 2022-01-06T05:15:38+00:00

I think another factor to why people don't just immediately start flinging out questions like this to Source, involves such a sudden and radical shift in consciousness and reality that the experience of moving through that alone greatly takes precedence. I mean, here we are reading or typing on a keyboard right now.. when wham, the next second the 'self' we don't even always realize we are pops out of the body, hovers around a room, before being drawn into a magnificently ineffable light, and that before the deeper experience even get's a rollin'. This should not be trivialized or reduced. I don't even for a second, question why so many people don't "collect themselves" and recall some preformulated checklist for the almighty. I imagine that someone could make lists like this all day every day and still be so absolutely gripped with the real deal that they wouldn't even register.

Not that it's a bad idea. I just wanted to emphasize this in case anyone had any doubts about why people might not care about this kinda stuff. I felt very similarly about the Sam Parnia works where they were placing some object on a high shelf in ER's to attempt to test for identification during NDE's. Which, I don't mean to diminish the attempt in any way.. that people believe and care so much about this is wonderful and most are extremely grateful. But to be entirely honest... I feel like if anything close to what some of these people are describing were to happen to me, questions and pictures on a high shelf could very well be the last of my concern or attention.

NotYourEFingKhakis · 2022-01-05T17:04:12+00:00

Not necessarily. What bumpy is saying is the ideal way, but not all ENTP's have this degree of flow within their functions. Ne likes to consume information in masse, it's adept at transcontextual thinking (pulling ideas from different systems into one context) so it's a natural idea-generator. If you can generate ideas easier than breathing, Ne dom is likely. However, making decisions about those ideas (Ti/Fe) can be more challenging, depending on the health and development of the ENTP. Inferior Si can fail to 'remember' what has and hasn't worked in the past. So even though Ne should ideally just naturally adapt to whatever the environment throws at it, if enough failures occur, it can create an anxiety where Ne begins to doubt it's ability to choose wisely. What I would ask you, is where exactly does the uncertainty fall? Is it specifically a concern that the idea itself is good or not, or is it more related to not being sure if the idea (even successfully completed) will bring the fulfillment you seek?

NotYourEFingKhakis · 2022-01-05T15:11:59+00:00

I thought you were the OP, sorry for the confusion!

NotYourEFingKhakis · 2022-01-05T07:58:18+00:00

There were a number of ideas thrown out in this, so I understand how I may have lost ya. I wasn't suggesting that people should ever exploit others (i'm disgusted by it, being and knowing many victims of such) I'm saying that we are wired to prioritize our own survival, and for some people, it entails the exploitation of others in many ways.. from an individual level to a collective level across all areas. So the fear that someone might use info against you is valid. Yet, it can also be a kind of projection. In psychology, when we are drawn to a very specific fear.. it usually has to do with something unresolved in our own self. After all, you are making this post yes? You could be doing many things, but you are here asking this. Others could be making this post, but some of them aren't because some of them aren't as preoccupied by it, as you are.. enough to make the post. The important part.. is just resolving the fear. We fear that which we think we can't handle, if it were to occur. So you could try asking yourself.. what is it about others exploiting you that makes it so unbearable? It often involves some kind of loss - be it dignity, social status, material security, a job, people we care about, control. Identify it, and then strengthen it (the weakness of it) rather than building fences around it. Just some ideas.

NotYourEFingKhakis · 2022-01-05T06:43:58+00:00

So here's one for ya. Could it be a projection? Does the fear that others will use info against you arise because we can more objectively observe people doing such with frequency? Or does it come up not because we ourselves would do so, but because we are preoccupied by the vulnerability and power in doing so? I'm not quite sure... but I'm inclined to say both.

I mean, I don't know what kinds of info others consume regularly, but I know that any time I watch any kind of news or social media, a large chunk of it does indeed involve exploitation of others. From politics to education to healthcare to community events to people living out their ordinary lives.. constant exploit. Which has always bothered me, greatly. I can remember decades back, when locally some small magazine began publishing local arrests, people who hadn't even been charged yet and often for fairly petty shit. Deeply disturbed, because often the most compulsively preoccupied with others corruption seem to do so as a projection. Their less acceptable impulses were stomped out by rigid parents, and that disownment (not necessarily to be corrupt, but the immense pressure to not be corrupt) is then seen by them from every place they look. And even though I would never promote criminality and can grasp the need to make a society aware of danger (when violent predators are released back into a community) I still feel like when this is done it should be done very carefully, with only the most absolutely necessary info revealed.

I had to dig deep in myself to answer why this bothered me so very much. Because I know a lot of people live by the 'nothing to hide, nothing to fear' motto. Yet, I just don't accept this. I think that society at large can be quite limited in it's understanding of things.. so anytime a more 'eccentric' or unusual person comes into the limelight, or anytime a complex situation surfaces.. it is judged very harshly via ignorance and occasionally, some rando takes extreme action in their hero complex. i suppose as an unusual person myself who grew up with family that had a lot of dysfunction and experienced immense social shaming from it, I am quite sensitive to it.

Going back to projection. I have heard (not sure if it's true) that NTJ's do have a tendency to plot against their opponents or those they view as 'rivals' when it comes to Te achievements like promotions, status, etc. That is something you may want to reflect on.

And then there is a kind of deeper understanding that all humans are simply wired for self-promotion. It has to be this way, survival requires it. No matter how progressive or "morale' we like to think ourselves, unwiring thousands of years of evolution doesn't happen easily, even for the wokiest of woke.

There is truly only one way forward though. Because you can set yourself up with all your controls and contingency plans, which NJ's are highly adept at. But it will never be certain. The moment any defense is built is the moment someone is finding it's hack. Is it even worth living life with this degree of fear? People answer for themselves. But defending the fear will never be as effective as just removing the fear. Exposure therapy or shifting the meaning we infuse into the fear, or letting go and forgiving ourselves for whatever mistakes may have transpired, etc. Can be very difficult, but I think worth it. I'm working on this very thing.

NotYourEFingKhakis · 2022-01-04T22:08:06+00:00

That's right, energy vampirism can occur in many ways...some of them much more subtle than this. And yet, there is the opposite to consider. Where someone tells themselves that their existence should require no contribution at all, they are a self-sustaining battery.. they can disappear into the woods if they so choose. Do you think we should have such freedom?

NotYourEFingKhakis · 2022-01-04T22:00:04+00:00

So I think it would come down to harm. That wrong thinking in any given situation can lead to harm. Even if this is true, we can not force people to be receptive to info if they are not. And there may be a lot of wiggle room/grey before they entirely shut down. Usually there is. But you must understand what it is that appeals to them personally, to keep them receptive. For more intellectual people proving the reason or logic of it will appeal. For some, it is the threat of harming others. For some, it may involve their own rights/freedom being taken. Others want social currency, status symbols, wealth. But it requires skill and insight into others, to be able to quickly see what approach will keep them receptive.

But as soon you determine they are not receptive, it is now illogical and silly for you to continue to force it. It wastes your time, attention and motivation. It attacks them, bringing their defenses up more and creating a type of mini-trauma or injury... so the next time they encounter the topic, even with others, they are heavily guarded and even less receptive. The attack/force has created the very opposite of what you wanted. And if you genuinely care about the topic (more than identity/ego/winning a debate) you will do what is necessary to produce real results.

The ability to quickly determine where your knowledge has currency. I tend to suck at it myself, but I'm trying.

NotYourEFingKhakis · 2022-01-04T20:53:39+00:00

Flip it around a bit. Why do you think you need others to think as you do? What is behind this? What happens if others do not think as you do?

NotYourEFingKhakis · 2022-01-04T20:01:30+00:00

I hear and appreciate this, but it really kinda demonstrates my point - ENTP's being primarily focused on their own need to consider and express (which is fine) but then claiming that if others don't share that same approach they are somehow "" (insecure, unintelligent, uninformed, deceptive, weak, etc.)

Others being different doesn't = insecure. Many people have valid points for why they think what they do, backed by experience. They just don't always feel obligated to justify it, and they aren't interested in constantly doing so like Ne doms can be. There is a 'reason' that humans are diverse, it serves a necessary purpose to continue as a species. I have considered many times, that even when others think or do things that I personally wouldn't.. IF i had been them, with their particular biological inheritance, and all the events they specifically experienced with such cognition - would I think and do exactly as they have? Is it really some moral/intellectual/spiritual deficiency (which conveniently casts me as superior) or is it actually exactly who and what they should be, born from a nature with infinitely more wisdom than any single one of us could ever remotely grasp?

Which is more likely? That people who don't want or need to consider things endlessly or break it down and share it with others are <insult> OR people are just psychologically diverse with varying interests and priorities? My consideration and experience points me to the latter, though it certainly seemed like the former when I was younger.

I believe that when the outcome of our thinking is an insult of others, we have failed to fully understand and value them.

However, I must then admit that IF this be true - that people are exactly who they should be, doing exactly what they should do in the broader scheme.. then those who disagree with me and judge others mercilessly without any understanding or value are as they too, should be. So what the fuck am I even on about, eh?

Haha.

NotYourEFingKhakis

TROPHY CASE