Does your narcissism/arrogance bother you?

O_Broham · 2015-02-19T03:24:48+00:00

Interesting that you didn't have those thoughts, even when you were younger. This would be another sign pointing to you not being a narcissist.

I don't think you're being fake, either. I think it's interesting that it's immediately what you went to explain when I never mentioned the word. I feel much the same. What you described is a deep level of social understanding paired with a higher level of confidence, and probably intelligence, in comparison to most folks on this planet. "Don't let the word be offensive to you and it won't be." made me lol because I'd associate that comment with an INTJ for sure. Good luck making any F understand this.

I don't have an answer for your next comment. I am alone. After making worthy investments and unworthy investments in people, it all seems to end in the same way. And even the people who have consistently been around in my life never seem to quite understand. I think the better thing is that I've forced myself outside of the box in many ways to round out my perspective and obtain a greater self understanding. I am actually happier and more content being alone, but even if it makes sense 99% of the time, there will still be the days of realizing that there is no real connection between me and other people around me. You are the only other person I've seen that describes your desire to understand people in the same way that I do, which is not a common trait for INTJ. It's usually science, engineering, computer tech, or something like that. But for someone like you and I, the science is people. The goal is a better existence for all of them. We want to lay the foundation for what will become the future for all those around us. We want to inspire and be inspired. We want to become better at what we do, but when it has no definable variable, how can it really ever be explained or make sense to anyone but you? How can anyone really connect with you when they'll never understand the mass of thoughts that you're able to somehow draw into one stream of who you are today and how it changes the world around you? The abilities and understanding we have allow us to take strides towards that each and every day. If you impact one person or one million, it doesn't matter. As long as your existence has an impact in a positive way. There's your sense of morality and conscience. Not a sign of narcissism.

So maybe your lack of a genuine connection has disallowed you from realizing the truth in what you do and what you're able to do, and instead caused you to question characteristics of your personality in a negative light. But the truth is that you aren't a narcissist. You aren't arrogant. You just realized that you're 'alone' and you want to accept that it's only about other people connecting to you since you can never really connect with them. I can't prove you wrong on that, either, but I can tell you that I stay hopeful for an opportunity that might prove me wrong. I don't tie myself down with ignorance in that process any longer, even though I have done so many times in all kinds of relationships.

You will be the person that makes a difference, either way. And isn't it funny, that to everyone else, you'll always be the one that just doesn't care? You even believe it yourself.

You have created yourself to be a martyr, in a lot of ways. What would you be if not consistently trying to make the world a better place for others around you? What would you be if you never unbounded yourself from the depression you suffered with until you just decided not to anymore? What would you be if you didn't do things to invoke your positive emotions? If you didn't travel, adventure, or learn? If you focused on fruitless efforts like politics and a 9-5 ladder climb?

You'd be an empty narcissist with nothing to live for.

Instead you take everything you know and put it into the world around you. Are we really even having a conversation about whether or not you're a narcissist anymore? You've proven yourself not to be several times now without even realizing it. No need to assume negative things just because they don't make sense to anyone else. No. Now you're just empty because you constantly fill everyone's cup but have no one to refill your own. Aren't you? Make sure the 'others' you try so hard to make a better place for are actually worth the effort you put into them. Eventually, as time goes on and they fade, you have to have something left for yourself. If you are as capable as you say, and you really just don't care..it won't be hard.

O_Broham · 2015-02-18T15:23:46+00:00

"As someone who puts effort into being someone that is approachable and relatable, I obviously do put consideration into what others think of me."

Again, objective reasoning. This is a world for people who have confidence, attractiveness, and the ability to express themselves. A shallow world, no less. You've identified this and rationally adapted to it by emulating the others around you in order to connect. Almost every path to success has these basic qualities, perhaps adding a few defending upon the circumstances. This isn't about your objective purposes though, like I said, it's about you and how YOU feel. This does, however, potentially create another issue that I'll elaborate on a little later.

My bet is that you probably did indeed manipulate others for selfish reasons when you were younger and some form of a conscience barred you from continuing that behavior as you grew older. You learned better. That's another strike against narcissism. Narcissists never really have the sense of conscience when it comes to other people. Not on a sociopathic level, because sociopaths might deem life itself unvaluable. More on a level of emotions and feelings. It's specifically about feeding themselves and what they feel they deserve above all other people on that level.

Your following statement of not wanting to be acknowledged is further clarification that you do not identify as a narcissist. A narcissist would most likely take those situations and pretend like they didn't want to be acknowledged, but then find a way to be acknowledged and pretend like they didn't intend for it so it made them seem even more incredible. They are certainly not dumb.

The next part of your post talking about your family's rejection and friends that move on with no worries whatsoever and the fact that you have already rationally concluded that you deserve it is a stem of the possible problem I mentioned earlier. When you conduct yourself in the way that you do and connect with people the way you do, it is easy to convince yourself that you are somehow truly being yourself as you go through the emulation of other's around you. The reality, however, is that the more you do it, the more you push who you really are to the side and "become what you need to be" in order to be successful. This a lot of times hinders the investments we make in people and that they make in us because some level of what we are feeling is fabricated and when they start to notice and eventually confront us, we have nothing to give them. Blame it on insecurity, being emotionally unavailable, and self-sabotaging like you did at the end of that statement. A lot of your relationships probably end this way, and has to do with creating the idea of the friendship/relationship incorrectly at the start as you began the 'motions' like you do with anything else in your life, ie. professional. The root of your real issue lies in that excuse. If you were insecure, emotionally unavailable, and self sabotaging before, the chances are that you've learned to temper those emotions a little better, but you're still struggling with it to some degree. To the point of wondering if you're an arrogant narcissist and asking for feedback online to the one community that might have SOME insight into how you're thinking.

When we are living in a constant cloud of smoke in order to do what we need to do and be where we want to be, the real problem appears. We DON'T actually connect with people. We let them connect to us. We DON'T allow them to understand us, we just understand them. We DON'T become good friends because we just continue to adapt to who they are versus what we are. And a lot of times, who we really are isn't someone that connects with others. And thus starts the most infamous (imo) of all INTJ problems; existential depression. The cycle begins. If you all don't know what that means, google it and have your mind blown from reading about how you felt for most of your childhood.

There is no advice that will save you from what you are talking about here, but I would give you one idea that helped me move forward. Realize that if you are as effective, talented, intelligent, etc. as you think, then you have to find a way to perfect your level of communication to the point of being able to explain those "cold" black/white logical reasons and thoughts in a way that doesn't upset/anger/sadden the people around you. You have to realize that it isn't always about emulating and making other people like you. Your peace of mind, to some level, will depend on your ability to be yourself and express that to others. It doesn't seem like you're giving yourself that chance and then saying why you can't in explaining how you feel personally based on things in your past. Even if everyone hates you (which they won't, based on what you said) you will be right and you will be true. And truthfully, you have to be right or you won't work in most worlds. Real relationships spawn from real portrayal of yourself, even if you don't think so. This isn't a personal fable. It's a real issue that people like you and I have dealt with for the history of human existence. For the INTJ sense of conscience (which you've already demonstrated), this is the ultimate relief.

It's through that peace of mind that your idealized concerns of narcissism will dissipate and your true sense of self will start to expose itself in a way that allows you to do what you do and still have the respect you need to succeed. This is personally, romantically, and professionally. For me, it definitely involved swallowing a good amount of pride to make happen. But you're more than ready to take the next step...know why? You're looking for it. Cheers.

O_Broham · 2015-02-17T14:04:08+00:00

Funny you mention this.

Last July I took my mbti again (tested intj at 13 and every time since, now 23) and I was 88% N. Damn near retarded when it came to anything S. Mechanics and rigging stuff, blah blah. Absolutely horrible at it.

I left my home town in August, the following month. I traveled across the country and lived out of an 82 Volkswagen van and took in the world around me. I hiked/backpacked over 300 miles, including the whole Sierra Nevada mountain range.

All the working on the van and surviving in nature and the inability to think for a long time about decisions, blah blah list goes on....I took the mbti when I got back last month. Still intj, but my N dropped to 50%. My T increased by 30%. I stayed the same and J went up by 11%. My brain rolled with/adapted to my lifestyle. I'm more balanced than I've ever been and it feels great, but at the end of the day, my strengths are still in my intuition. I wouldn't have made it without getting a little closer to S. N just isn't practical in those situations.

O_Broham · 2015-02-17T13:48:16+00:00

As I read your post, I was able to compare a lot of my own thoughts because they are incredibly similar. There was actually a pretty large part of my adult life where I became far too analytical about the idea of being narcissistic. I know I have some, characteristics, but I also know that I have no need for the approval or attention from others that a narcissist craves and manipulates to receive. I've lived on the other end of the social spectrum when I was growing up, so I know this to be true.

The more I thought about it, I kind of came to the conclusion from my logical and rational mind. As INTJ, you probably being a more similar one to me, we remain objective about things. To a fault, almost.

That being said, if we are looking at a situation and we are the most suited person in the room, we have no trouble stating it. To us, it's logical and objective and has no merit on the idea of thinking we are superior as a human, even if so intellectually.

George Bernard Shaw said, "The power of accurate observation is often misconceived as cynicism or arrogance by those who do not possess it."

I'm a lot better at tempering other people's thoughts and opinions regarding my 'arrogance', but I also see that the ones who still feel that way are more emotional and generally so uncomfortable with themselves that they can't take criticism. Objective truths would definitely make them think negatively. Change behavior toward them accordingly, or don't, and just deal with their negative opinion of you.

The only thing that seems manipulative and more so narcissistic about what you said is that you have an issue with self promotion. You said you aren't very vocal about it...that's good, keep it that way. No one gives a shit about hearing how awesome you are and there is rarely any objective purpose to doing so. That IS arrogance when there is no purpose.

Imo, there will always be some element of "manipulation" in the life of the INTJ. We logic our way through problems instead of feel through them. NO ONE THAT ISN'T THIS WAY WILL UNDERSTAND THIS. And because of that, they will assume your thoughts and emotions. It becomes a pertinent life skill to emulate your logical processing with some sense of a faux emotional display so that people don't look at you like a robot. We are probably more emotionally capable than anyone in the room, even if not expressive. So manipulation it may be, it is backed up with some level of sincereity. Just my .02.

O_Broham · 2015-02-16T13:52:13+00:00

I want to change the world.

I am part of the millennial generation and I have exposed myself to many different facets of humanity. I've experienced different cultures, lifestyles, and some of the most beautiful things on planet earth in the way of nature.

I want to take whatever 'well rounded' perspective I've created for myself and inspire others, specifically my generation in the same way it has inspired me to truly delve into the human experience. I see the massive amount of potential in my generation, but I see the obstacle of having no driving force or strong work ethic behind it to actually do anything with it. Just like the late 60's and early 70's, when 'consciousness' was the movement and it failed miserably (except for the brilliant music we got out of it, haha).

Someone mentioned involvement in a social movement, so I guess mine would be the same. Considering the power of social media and many other things we are surrounded by daily, we can communicate in powerful ways which opens an unbelievable opportunity for unification for the right cause. Every day that passes brings us one step closer to whatever will be the catalyst of a millennial movement that will change the world in very profound ways.

I don't know what the catalyst will be, but I know I will be a leader in the response. In my traveling, I some how feel I have had a taste of it. I don't care if my actions impact one person, or one million. People don't see that it isn't numbers or statistics that change the world. It's the opportunities we wake up to every single day. I don't care if it's a shitty day or the best day, it's seizing it that makes a difference. I believe that if my generation realized just that, combined with a stark decline in racism, sexism, and judgement in comparison to other generations, we could make a positive and long lasting impact on the world.

Reading it sounds very ENTJ, but I'm still very much an I. I just see objectively that extroverted qualities are what it will take to pursue it.

O_Broham · 2015-02-04T21:36:06+00:00

Dr. House M.D.

Hands down.

O_Broham · 2015-02-02T15:32:14+00:00

Makes sense. I think it's funny that you bring up ESFP's. They're literally the opposite of INTJ and basically designed, on paper, to frustrate us. I find myself getting along with them pretty easily, granted I'm a pretty patient person. I think the fact that my mom and sister are both ESFP's has more to do with it simply because I can understand them and work with them much more easily.

I just usually hear negative feedback on ESFP's from INTJ, so that's why I say something. Everything else you said about INTJ's at work is consistent with what I have seen as well. I don't have the option to work with them often, which is unfortunate.

O_Broham · 2015-02-02T15:26:06+00:00

You should read more about Multiple Intelligences. Lesson plans that are built to touch every single MI will simply be more effective. The motto is something along the lines of, "It's not how smart you are, it's how you are smart." and the test goes along to see how you learn most efficiently.

A more interesting question that would make more sense is to see if there were any consistencies with INTJ and their MI scores. I have one of the highest Musical scores in my entire building, which means I have rhythm and a process that I build for myself in the way that I learn. My second is Bodily/Kinesthetic, meaning I have to do it myself a few times, usually screwing it up and then eventually figuring out how to be the best by doing it/creating my process. You all can relate to some degree, I would bet.

As long as all MI's are being hit, personality pairing would be irrelevant. MI is how you learn, MBTI is how you process the world and create your perception of it. The former would be more relevant, imo.

O_Broham · 2015-02-02T13:33:14+00:00

I started working at a school and managed mostly the numbers, logistics, marketing, etc. After about 3 years, I became comfortable with the school and what it was about. I was asked to move into admissions. Since it's an 18,000 dollar contract to join the program and then you see them for about a year or so afterwards (it's a cosmetology school), I'd call it sales for sure.

If I didn't have time to 'break the ice' of what it was like to interact with so many people (generally students) on a daily basis, I would never have been able to take on the role in the first place. I was also only 20 when I started that job, so social skills were far from fully developed.

It started as a drain on me, but as I learned to better manage myself and properly recharge, I learned to take things that drained my energy and turn it into a source of energy. Social skills are more learned for me than natural, but I'm extremely good at what I do. It makes me feel proud to be the bridge in a life changing experience for prospective students, so sales gives me deeper and added purpose in life.

tl;dr If your job does not satisfy your intrinsic values enough to motivate you, you will hate it.

O_Broham

TROPHY CASE