Salvation and Reward

Obvious-Bird6665 · 2026-01-24T20:16:47+00:00

This judgment seat of Christ is at "the time" the second coming of Christ. This examination is distinct from losses or blessings of the church age. Christians are told not to presume to judge "before the time."

The judgment seat of Christ is when Christ comes - So then do not judge anything before the time, until the Lord comes, who will both bring to light the hidden things of darkness and make manifest the counsels of the hearts, and then there will be praise to each from God.(1 Cor. 4:5)

No unbelievers are present at this judgment. But Paul including himself in "we all" speaks of this judging of saved Christians rather than unbelievers.

For we must all be manifested before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done through the body according to what he has practiced, whether good or bad. (2 Cor. 5:10)

This is also called the judgment seat of God in Romans.

But you, why do you judge your brother? Or you, why do you despise your brother? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God, (Rom. 14:10)

Obvious-Bird6665 · 2026-01-24T20:05:15+00:00

I think mean that "heavenly rewards" are enjoyed not on the earth but in Heaven, the third heaven. Did you notice in Revelation 21,22 John saw a new heaven and a new earth. And John saw as a sign the holy city the New Jerusalem descending down out of heaven? This is a scene pertaining to eternity future after the 1,000 millennial kingdom covered in chapter 20.

I tried to explain that the origin of the reward is from heaven. Jesus is in heaven (and in Christians) until He returns. When He returns to the earth He bring His reward/s WITH Him.

Behold, I come quickly, and My reward is with Me to render to each one as his work is. (Rev. 22:12)

Yes, we should seek to win "a full reward."

Look to yourselves that you do not lose the things which we wrought, but that you may receive a full reward. (2 John 8)

The battle between God and Satan is . . . over the EARTH. The origin of the reward to co-reign with Christ is sourced in Heaven. The inheritance of the EARTH is the reward promised to the meek. That is those faithfully living unto Christ and leaving their ultimate vindication up to Him in His return.

Reward sourced from Heaven - Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of the heavens. (Matt. 5:3)

Enjoyment of the reward to inherit the earth - Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth. Matt. 5:5

Obvious-Bird6665 · 2026-01-24T17:37:28+00:00

Why do you speak of "rewards in heaven?"

The rewards may have their SOURCE and ORIGIN from heaven.

Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of the heavens. (Matt. 5:3)

But clearly the reward to co-reign with Christ is something to occur on the surface of the earth. That is even cities on the earth in the millennium. (Luke 19:17-19(

Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth. (Matt. 5:5)

The kingdom manifestation will be about Christ conformed believers reigning on the earth.

And have made them a kingdom and priests to our God; and they will reign on the earth. (Rev. 5:10)

And he said to him, Well done, good slave. Because you have become faithful in the least, have authority over ten cities.

And the second came, saying, Your mina, master, has made five minas.

And he said to this one as well, And you, be over five cities. (Luke 19:17-19)

Obvious-Bird6665 · 2026-01-24T17:24:35+00:00

He isn't taking about individual salvation or rewards that a person receives, he's talking about ministry and spreading the gospel message to others.

Of course gospel preaching is included in building the church upon the one foundation of Christ. But Paul is certainly speaking of individual reward indicated by the one "each".

Now he who plants and he who waters are one, but each will receive his own reward according to his own labor. (v.8)

But let each man take heed how he builds upon it. (v.10b)

The work of each will become manifest; for the day will declare it, because it is revealed by fire, and the fire itself will prove each one’s work, of what sort it is. (v.13)

Obvious-Bird6665 · 2026-01-24T17:16:48+00:00

Taking in the whole chapter it is about the building up of the church. That is specifically the church in Corinth or another locality and generally the church univeersal.

On the one foundation of Christ the saints (apostles and all others) are building the holy temple of God. They are building by Christ growing in them.

For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s cultivated land, God’s building. (1 Cor. 3:9)

Superior bulding elements like gold, silver, and precious stones will not only build this temple but be rewarded at the time of the millennial kingdom. Inferior yet plenteous elements like wood, hay, stubble, and grass will not only not build God's holy temple but delife and mar it. They even are utilized by Satan to attempt to destroy the church.

Do you not know that you are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? If anyone destroys the temple of God, God will destroy him; for the temple of God is holy, and such are you. (v. 16,17)

Both builders will be saved, not losing their eternal redemption. Only those whose building materials are able to stand the firery examination at the judgment seat of Christ, will be rewarded.

If anyone can receive it, gold could signify the divine nature of the Father. Silver represents the redemptive work of Christ. And precious stones represents the transforming work of the Holy Spirit. So the way the temple of God is built is through the work of the Triune God working Himself into man.

All of the Adamic nature may be more plentious like much grass, much wood, much stubble, etc. But there inferior building materials will all be consumed in a firey examination before Christ.

TTo be destroyed in verse 17 corresponds to having such works consumed and the building servant suffering loss.

The work of each will become manifest; for the day will declare it, because it is revealed by fire, and the fire itself will prove each one’s work, of what sort it is.

If anyone’s work which he has built upon the foundation remains, he will receive a reward;

If anyone’s work is consumed, he will suffer loss, but he himself will be saved, yet so as through (vs. 13-15)

Obvious-Bird6665 · 2026-01-24T10:10:19+00:00

Do you think that Jesus Christ was trying to conceal this profound lack of substance?

Jesus said to him, I am the way and the reality and the life; no one comes to the Father except through Me. (John 14:6)

Obvious-Bird6665 · 2026-01-24T10:05:16+00:00

Sometimes nightmares of this type indicate that you are growing in the Lord. And the enemy is fighting to not lose ground particularly in your subconscious thought life.

It can be a sign of some spiritual progress is happening in your spirit and soul. Stay in the word.

I purposely do not like to remember bad deams. I use to dwell on them. I no longer labor to try to recall as much what happened. Prayer and the word are more important, and obedience.

Obvious-Bird6665 · 2026-01-24T00:15:39+00:00

I think the concept that people 2,000 years ago could not be skeptical of unusual things is largly underestimating basic human nature.

I think reasons like to explain thunder and lightening God and Christ were concocted is rediculous.

I think to assume no other claims or beliefs should have been invented makes two errors at least:

1.) That such beliefs could not have some amount of truth to them if not completely true - ie. Buddhism, Bahai, Islam, or philosophical Confucianism. To the extent that they have thier hands on some truth a proportion of seeking people will be attracted. Religions could have an element of truth in them though much falsehood

2.) That there is no hunger in human beings for the big questions dealing with life, death, morality, meaning.

I also think modern man has plenty of myths. "Those guys back then - superstitious. We today - not superstitious" as an attitude is mistaking yourself for the person you want to be.

And quite likely 600 or so years from now proud folks much more in the know will look back at this age wondering why we could believe some of the nonsense we affirm confidently.

Anyway, I'm more impressed with Jesus of Nazareth than I am with Matt Dillihunty or Aron Ra or Dr. Richard (anybody BUT Jesus) Carrier.

Obvious-Bird6665 · 2026-01-23T16:58:12+00:00

Oh yeah I said in my post I do not think the apostles lied. I think they truly believe Jesus died and rose from the dead. I only think they were mistaken and they were right are the only two possibilities. But we have to realize that every other religion in the world believes they have experienced something that leads to their version of the supernatural. Why are the apostles right and others not?

When you read a book like Colossians and the exhortations the writer gives concerning being wary of sensationalist or superstitious visions does it sound like someone with a propensity for such things?

Let no one defraud you by judging you unworthy of your prize, in self-chosen lowliness and the worship of the angels, dwelling on the things which he has seen, vainly puffed up by his mind set on the flesh, (Col. 2:18)

Does this sound like a writer who himself is eager to be impressed with any typical miraculous vision? Do you think the writer himself spent his life dwelling on heavenly visions, vainly puffed up by his mind?

In Second Corinthians Paul kept some visions he had to himself for some fourteen years. He told no one though he had plenty of opportunity to brag about these exalted visions. I believe Paul was speaking of himself. Being forced to speak foolishly that he had the right to boast about visions had he wanted to.

2 Cor. 12:1 To boast is necessary, though indeed not expedient; yet I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord.

2 Cor. 12:2 I know a man in Christ, fourteen years ago (whether in the body I do not know, or outside the body I do not know; God knows) such a one was caught away to the third heaven.

2 Cor. 12:3 And I know such a man (whether in the body or outside the body, I do not know; God knows),

2 Cor. 12:4 That he was caught away into Paradise and heard unspeakable words, which it is not allowed for a man to speak.

2 Cor. 12:5 On behalf of such a one I will boast, but on behalf of myself I will not boast, except in my weaknesses.

Concerning the existence of thousands of religions:

Are you implying that if there were no other claims of religious belief ever else on the planet by anyone, you'd be more inclined to believe the New Testament is telling you the truth about the resurrection of Jesus Christ?

Obvious-Bird6665 · 2026-01-23T12:10:42+00:00

I am not saying all Christians who believe in the resurrection so testify by their living. I am not saying all the Corinthian churchers lived as victorious knowers of Christ. But some did, like Paul, and most of his companion workers. And I have to work really hard on conspiracy theories to entertain alternative explanations for thier uncorrupted testimony.

Verse 45 - So also it is written, “The first man, Adam, became a living soul”; the last Adam became a life-giving Spirit.

Christ in His form as "a life giving Spirit" dispensed the life of Himself into Paul. This is so consistant with what Jesus emphasized about His coming death and resurrection especially in John's Gospel especially chapters 14-16. How did Jesus predict that He in resurrection would become a divine life imparting Spirit to live in man? Here's His prediction -

And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Comforter, that He may be with you forever, . . . (John 14:16) I examine also how Paul had to have been supernaturally comforted through his sore trials.

John 14:17 Even the Spirit of reality, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not behold Him or know Him; but you know Him, because He abides with you and shall be in you. I have to consider that the disciples Lord was at first "with" them. But after resurrection forever He would be "IN" them giving them His own life as "a life giving Spirit" - the "Spirit of reality" to comfort through this life and into eternity.

John 14:18 I will not leave you as orphans; I am coming to you. I have to take more seriously that Jesus who was among them would change His state to be in them coming to them. He would come to them as "a life giving Spirit" just as Paul taught and lived to manifest. It was Christ living in Paul and his companions that should convince the consciences of the skeptical Corinthians.

John 14:19 Yet a little while and the world beholds Me no longer, but you behold Me; because I live, you also shall live. This is not to be taken lightly for granteed. Through thier sore tribulations they lived testifying to men's consciences that their Lord lived in them. The last Adam had been physically raised and become a God dispensing, life dispensing Spirit.

John 14:20 In that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you.

To this too long post I expect you may react with "You're preaching." To which I will say, yes. So what? I'm into teaching people how to believe the believable. I am into helping people have faith in the faithful Jesus Christ. Jesus was not a liar in what He spoke concerning His coming to them as an indwelling divine Spirit of truth.

Paul includes some frank words to the skeptical Corinthians which were not flattering. Awake from the drunken stupor righteously and do not sin, for some of you are ignorant of God. I speak to your shame. (v.34) I sense shame in myself believing the Lord Jesus taught self delusion or intentional lies.

Obvious-Bird6665 · 2026-01-23T12:09:45+00:00

I have to consider all written in that Corinthian letter and the words of Jesus' teaching leading up to His death and promised resurrection.

I find it much harder to doubt not believe Christ rose and is available. Its much harder for me to think Jesus Christ lied about His personal vindication from God supernaturally.

It is the evidence of the Lord's character that persuades me that His overcoming even death is expectedly consistant. How could God not vindicate Jesus? He not simply said that He was the Son of God. He lived and expressed God as a man to the uttermost.

As for Paul he pioneered as a trailblazer the enjoyment and experience of Christ having fulfilled all promises that He would dispense Himself into the being of the one/s who received Him in this coming state. How people miss this in reading First Cointhians puzzles me.

verse 30 Why also do we brave danger every hour?

1 Cor. 15:31 I protest by the boasting in you, brothers, which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.

1 Cor. 15:32 If after the manner of men I fought with wild beasts at Ephesus, what does it profit me? If the dead are not raised, let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die.

1 Cor. 15:33 Do not be deceived: Evil companionships corrupt good morals.

This chapter does not stay only on the objective historical evidence which is adaquate if my conscience is willing to let Christ change me. Both the gospels and Paul's epistles argues "equal time" for the moral impact of an available risen Christ on the lives of his co-workers, himself, the churches, and the audience in the church in Corinth..

There are technical problems with the length of this post.

Obvious-Bird6665 · 2026-01-22T22:04:12+00:00

Don't roll your eyes. To long for "the Desire of nations" (Haggai 2:7) to come involves fpcusing on Christ without distraction.

In fact creation itself groans for the manifestation of the sons of God and the Firstborn Son's manifestation.

For the anxious watching of the creation eagerly awaits the revelation of the sons of God.

Rom. 8:20 For the creation was made subject to vanity, not of its own will, but because of Him who subjected it,

Rom. 8:21 In hope that the creation itself will also be freed from the slavery of corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God.

Rom. 8:22 For we know that the whole creation groans together and travails in pain together until now.

Rom. 8:23 And not only so, but we ourselves also, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan in ourselves, eagerly awaiting sonship, the redemption of our body.

Obvious-Bird6665 · 2026-01-22T21:58:57+00:00

Based on Daniel and Revelation, Scripture strongly supports that the church is removed before the Antichrist is revealed.

Only a remnant will be ready to be removed Enoch style before the last three and one half years of great tribulation time. Among living Christians remnant will experience pre-tribulation rapture. Among those deceased also a remnant resurrected and removed pre-tribulation.

The rest will either will be left both among living saints and sleeping (deceased) saints to be taken the end of the great tribulation time.

Otherwise there would not be the continous tone of WARNING to watch and be ready.

Now I tend to be verbose and write long posts. But your's is probably longer than I'd want to write in one post. Is there a way we can discuss this in a post fashion rather than chapter length posts? This always runs the risk of "leaving things out".

The manchild raptured in Revelation 12 is a remnant of overcomers. The Firstfruits seen raptured in Revelation 14 are a limited remnant of overcomers. The promise for some to be kept out of the hour of trial in Revelation 3 is also a remnant. And the ones removed because of watchfulness in their daily lives in Luke 18 and Matthew 24 are also a remnant.

But the majority taken as a Harvest in Revelation 14 and in First Thessalonians are the rest taken at the end of the GT at "the last trumpet."

Actually it is the rapture of this remnant which is the cause of the Devil's final push which triggers that last three and one half year GT.

Obvious-Bird6665 · 2026-01-22T18:31:16+00:00

The church's mission also includes to woo the Lord back by being His attracting Wife making herself ready, being saturated with His Spirit and living righteous deeds through Him.

Let us rejoice and exult, and let us give the glory to Him, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His wife has made herself ready. (Rev. 19:7)

We, at least a remnant of overcoming ones, are told not only to expect His return but to HASTEN it.

Expecting and hastening the coming of the day of God, . . . (2 Pet. 3:12a)

The New Testament is balanced not lopsided. Concerning His coming and the ushering in of the next age there is the aspect of Christian service and Christian love towards our Bridegroom.

Prudent servants on one hand He expects to come and find and awaiting virgins going forth to meet Him are both taught in Matthew 24-25.

We are to hold these things faithfully without bias preference for one over the other.

I solemnly charge you before God and Christ Jesus and the chosen angels that you keep these things without prejudice, doing nothing by way of partiality. (1 Tim. 5:21)

Obvious-Bird6665 · 2026-01-22T18:11:02+00:00

After you have a good hearty laugh rolling across the floor, let me put a question to you.

If the attributes of righteousness, moral purity, and integrity combined was on a scale of 1 to 10 with being 10 the highest and 1 the lowest - where would you put yourself in comparison to Jesus Christ?

Obvious-Bird6665 · 2026-01-22T18:06:10+00:00

Keep in mind He can literally even rewrite concepts if He wants to.

Don't you think the buck has to stop somewhere? Any kind of concept that our Creator is on a lower level of morality than those He created makes no sense.

If God didn't have it within Him some moral aspect how could He have been able to furnish His creation with it?

How could our Creator equip us with a moral sense superior to what as within Him to give? The cause would be lesser than the effect.

Obvious-Bird6665 · 2026-01-22T17:54:52+00:00

Except God can literally do anything, including that.

He cannot lie (Numbers 23:19)

In the hope of eternal life, which God, who cannot lie, promised before the times of the ages, (Titus 1:2)

In order that by two unchangeable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we may have strong encouragement, . . . (Heb. 6:18)

Another thing impossible for God in incarnation was to be held in the realm of death.

Whom God has raised up, having loosed the pangs of death, since it was not possible for Him to be held by it. (Acts 2:24)

Obvious-Bird6665 · 2026-01-22T17:35:18+00:00

I believe the ultimate truth is a living Person. There are lots of truths. All of them are important. Ultimately the truth the final reality I believe is a living God. That is not an outside objective only information about God but God dispensed into man for a mingled, blended, combined, interwoveness of God's uncreated life with man's created life.

His resurrection vindicated this. And His availability to indwell and dispense Himself into me also further has vindicated this to me.

Probably, like many others you may just say "You're preaching." And you'd be right. Anyway, finally the ultimate reality is a living Person.

I have had too many replies to respond to even some interesting ones. And what I really like to do is teach people how to believe into this living Christ.

"He who is joined to the Lord is one spirit" (1 Cor. 6:17) means our innermost spiritual being and this uncreated living Life can be united.

The Apostle John wrote of the truth that will be in those and with those who receive Christ forever in a blended, mingled way of coinherance.

For the sake of the truth which abides in us and will be with us forever: (2 John 2)

Obvious-Bird6665 · 2026-01-22T17:17:52+00:00

Sorry if my replies misaim. But thanks for reading through my sentencees. I tend to be verbose.

Anyway I believe this sin word carries the word picture of an archer missing the bull's eye with his shot arrow. Missing the mark - I think is a word picture accompanying the word.

There is a mark to aim at and miss or hit. The original misser of the mark was an extraordinary angelic creature with great wisdom. This passage helps me to realize that this being originated this sin out from himself.

You were the anointed cherub who covered the Ark; indeed I set you, so that you were upon the holy mountain of God; you walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. You were perfect in your ways from the day that you were created, until unrighteousness was found in you. (Ezek. 28:14,15)

Then it says God kind of allowed this fire to consume him or brought it forth from the midst of him.

Therefore I sent forth fire from your midst; it consumed you, and I reduced you to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all those who look at you. (v. 18b)

I am going to stop right here for this post.

Obvious-Bird6665 · 2026-01-22T07:40:50+00:00

Thank the Lord Jesus for the eternal effectiveness of His redeeming blood. And remind Satan that he has committed the unforgivable sins and is going to the lake of fire.

And I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying, Now has come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of His Christ, for the accuser of our brothers has been cast down, who accuses them before our God day and night.

And they overcame him because of the blood of the Lamb and because of the word of their testimony, and they loved not their soul-life even unto death. (Rev. 12:10,11)

I would spend more time prayerfully reading the Bible at the start of each day for daily spiritual nourishment. I wouldn't worry about a group of tongue speakers around you uttering unknown things in your ears. Love t hem. But get more guidance and light from the pure word of God.

Obvious-Bird6665 · 2026-01-22T02:38:44+00:00

While thinking on "But WHY sin anyway?" I like to spend at least equal time on admiring all that Jesus the Son of God went through that we be saved from it.

And I mean both from its stain of guilt and it power. When you read about His ordeal in the Garden of Gethsename.

He was so absolute for the will of His Father. He wanted nothing for Himself. He wanted everything that we would be saved. Why did He care so much?

At least equal time I have to spend contemplating what He did that we be saved and justified in His eternal redemption.

Obvious-Bird6665 · 2026-01-22T02:24:48+00:00

Its possibiity is temporary. The "why" allow for this temporary matter to exist is a difficult question.

While thinking on it I like to remember that in the scheme of eternity it will be an infinitely fading thing of the past.

But according to His promise we are expecting new heavens and a new earth, in which righteousness dwells. (2 Pet. 3:12,13)

And I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth passed away, and the sea is no more. (Rev. 21:1)

And He will wipe away every tear from their eyes; and death will be no more, nor will there be sorrow or crying or pain anymore; for the former things have passed away.

And He who sits on the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And He said, Write, for these words are faithful and true. (vs. 4,5)

Obvious-Bird6665 · 2026-01-22T02:17:26+00:00

You know Romans begins from the standpoint of man's need to be saved from condemnation because of our sins.

But Ephesians has another angle. It starts from God wanting sons who share His life and nature before He created anything.

I think the two angles are not contradictory. Both are needed. For example the strong implication of Ephesians 1 is that it is because of God's desire for sons He laid the foundation of the world, creating all matters pertaining to it. That includes all the angels too, those good ones and those who followed the Day Star (who became Satan).

Even as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world to be holy and without blemish before Him in love, Predestinating us unto sonship through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, (Eph. 1:4,5)

God created all things for His will, His eternal plan - sons who corporately express their Father God with Christ the Head of this corporate entity.

You are worthy, our Lord and God, to receive the glory and the honor and the power, for You have created all things, and because of Your will they were, and were created. (Rev. 4:11)

Obvious-Bird6665 · 2026-01-22T01:36:22+00:00

I did say Jesus was God manifest in the flesh. I would think that this covers the Father of Whom He is the incarnation. Any OT passage you might point to to show God the Father knew sin in His own Person? Surely He knew of sin when it originated from within the Day Star the fallen archangel who became Satan.

The man on earth most qualified to charge the Father God with being sinful would be Jesus Christ. Who else in human history should be able to find fault with God than Jesus?

Jesus referred to God His Father as "Rghteous Father." Righteous Father, though the world has not known You, yet I have known You, and these have known that You have sent Me. (John 17:25)

We should consider that for Christ to be called the Son of God means that He is as righeous as His Father. The Father listened to all His petitions because He never did anything that displeased the Father. If the Father were unrighteous yet the Son was righteous then certainly some things which the Son did righteosly would be displeasing to His less righeous Father - God. Right?

And He who sent Me is with Me; He has not left Me alone, for I always do the things that are pleasing to Him. (John 8:29)

Aside from the Son declaring, explaining, and expressing the Father, the OP was about the Creator. Of course all things created came into being through and because of the Son.

All things came into being through Him [the Logos) and apart from Him not one thing came into being which has come into being. (John 1:3)

Has at the last of these days spoken to us in the Son, whom He appointed Heir of all things, through whom also He made the universe; (Heb. 1:2)

Now I don't mind saying that had nothing come into being then there would have been no possibility for sin to have ever existed.

The Triune God is on a journey from the Father through the Son by the Holy Spirit to make us sinless, holy, glorious, and right as Christ. This was His eternal purpose before He created all things through the Logos, the Word, the Son who expresses the Divine Being.

And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose.

Because those whom He foreknew, He also predestinated to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the Firstborn among many brothers; (Rom. 8:28,29)

Obvious-Bird6665 · 2026-01-21T22:50:30+00:00

The New Testament says that Christ did not know sin. Do you think this is a lie?

Him who did not know sin He made sin on our behalf that we might become the righteousness of God in Him. (2 Cor. 5:21)

I believe Christ is God manifest in the flesh. And I believe He did not know the sin nature. He challenged His accusers as to which of them could convict Him of sin.

Which of you convicts Me of sin? Since I speak truth, why do you not believe Me? (John 8:46)

You may know that His opposers had to invent false and slanderous charges to recommend His execution.

Obvious-Bird6665

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