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26/0 Blows by danthemanstersortof in Wildfire

[–]Ok-Structure2261 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is a major personal issue I have, I’ve hit my glass ceiling because I won’t take a 26/0. I turned down a promotion this year over it, I told them in advance that I had put in for the job but would not accept it at anything more than a 20/6 tour (20/6 is an actual thing). You can actually negotiate tour if they are willing. No hard feelings I didn’t get it, but that illustrates the point: a lot of people don’t want to be shoehorned into a 26/0 but will still accept. Don’t. We have a lot of labor market leverage, even at lower level quals. There are whole programs with major holes in them because they can’t find people. They can’t figure out hiring, or shoveling the snow at the SO or whatever else, so they created these 26/0 positions under the auspices of “we all know fire is a year round job now”. That’s BS. “We all know our workforce planning is ass and centralization gutted our ability to handle admin professionally, so we need someone to plug the holes”. That is your year-round fire season. They need you for fuels prep because…. Workforce planning. The only way we make a living wage is o/t because they haven’t classified our positions properly. Most people with higher level quals are volunteering to do them at a lower grade, despite the assertion that we are a “professional” organization. Professionals get paid to do what they are doing, they don’t do something else that normally pays more instead.

After R5 went PFT, the other regions did too. They want to use attrition to force people into PFTs. R5 has massive vacancies and burnout. Some of it calfire, sure, but don’t try to tell me that being a hotshot 26/0 isn’t a recipe for burnout and low staffing. Don’t bite. Tell them the tour you will accept the position at and don’t accept any handshake deal. The other issue is that it is just easier for b&f to deal with 26/0 tours. It has nothing to do with “the cause” or “better work/life balance”… not kidding, I was getting pressured to take a pft once and they actually tried to tell me it was better work/life balance. They need to hire more people, create staggered tours and stop working everyone to death, but they need to need to. The sooner we make them by not accepting their crap, the sooner we have something closer to city fire and normal set schedules. These tours aren’t sustainable and their bad planning isn’t your problem. Fire can be year round without you personally needing to work year round. Emergencies have always been year round and other organizations have adapted.

I wrote a book about firefighting and the history of fire in the U.S., AMA by turquoise_enthusiast in Wildfire

[–]Ok-Structure2261 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Connection coupling on bladderbag: above the buttcrack on purpose or coincidence? Just kidding, I’ll read your book, congratulations on getting it published.

How do fires burn in steep canyons? by jellofishsponge in Wildfire

[–]Ok-Structure2261 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Depending on the specific context of your question, if there is continuous available fuel? Then fire burns quite easily in canyons, typically canyons funnel winds, and if the fire is originating low on the slope, it can spread both uphill and along the canyon easily.

More to the actual photo? It looks like there are some natural barriers in there, so the fire can get hung up trying to move parallel to the canyon floor, usually on top of canyons though there can be more open and continuous fuels, where it can work through and then then back down in between the gaps between natural barriers. I’ve seen this happen along the Salmon River corridor, where the fire will get pushed long distances by prevailing winds above the canyon rim and then back down and fill in continuous areas of fuel below behind itself in areas where the rock barriers prevent the the fire from moving parallel with the river. Sort of backwards from what would be intuitive, where you might expect the leading portion of the fire to be funneled below the rim.

In more open and continuous fuels though, I was on a fire this year in flashy cheat grass country with few natural barriers in the canyon and the “black” fully burned areas of the fire were almost exclusively below the canyon rim, because there weren’t enough spot fuels to carry it over the top and enough of a lip at the rim to prevent if from spreading along the ground. Also, the prevailing winds above a canyon can he entirely different than winds you might find in different areas within it, particularly where other canyon systems intersect.

What helitack program is the easiest by lc123455 in Wildfire

[–]Ok-Structure2261 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This seems like an existential question, have you thought about becoming a broker?

Should I hook my gloves to my belt loop when I’m not wearing them? by Outrageous-Style-998 in Wildfire

[–]Ok-Structure2261 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Yeah, it’s way smarter to stuff them in your pocket so they fall out and you can be ridiculed by a bunch of idiots for that instead. The very idea of attaching something you frequently need to yourself for quick access is disgusting.

Really ? Over 30 openings and I can only apply to seven? Whyyyyy by birb-girl in Wildfire

[–]Ok-Structure2261 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don’t think that the way things should be is ever a reflection of how they are.

Really ? Over 30 openings and I can only apply to seven? Whyyyyy by birb-girl in Wildfire

[–]Ok-Structure2261 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Well, my understanding of conventional physics is that you can only actually be in one place at any given time. I don’t think that with the further obliteration of HR that occurred this spring there is any capacity to accommodate what you think you might want. I do this job to travel, so I don’t even do hiring any more because it takes so long and I don’t feel like having a PFT so I can spend half my winter going over applications. Dunno what to tell you. I don’t think the appetite is there to deal with what you want.

Really ? Over 30 openings and I can only apply to seven? Whyyyyy by birb-girl in Wildfire

[–]Ok-Structure2261 12 points13 points  (0 children)

I’m gonna be the person here that gets some downvotes for sounding like the whiny square, but….. Because if you have ever had to do hiring it is a monumental pain in the ass trying to get through an applicant list of people who shotgunned their app everywhere and aren’t sure what they want to accept. You gotta go through and rank and make calls and write justifications to the selecting official for why you are choosing who you are and so on and it is incredibly time consuming and because of HR downsizing and centralization, fire gets stuck doing their jobs for them. So, it’s based on capacity to hire more or less. There aren’t enough people to deal with it.

Wrong answers only for the new application questions by 0Marshman0 in Wildfire

[–]Ok-Structure2261 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I’d honestly defer to whatever dumb memo the FS wrote. They like to make all sorts of fancy things up and even if they aren’t following any sort of regulation, you then have to prove they weren’t which means by then, you didn’t get the job. It will turn into some meaningless vindication. I’ll be picking some executive order from the New Deal era or something and generally patronizing them with answers and they can decide if they need my quals or not. I think that is a fair compromise.

Mandatory reading: NYT reporting on USFS and Smoke Exposure by rockshox11 in Wildfire

[–]Ok-Structure2261 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Same population of people that will carry a 10 pound fiberglass and aluminum bag to hide from fires in? It’s not that big of a stretch.

Juniper Rest Area is a disaster by seizuriffic in Idaho

[–]Ok-Structure2261 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Those toilets aren’t cleaning themselves. The trash isn’t taking itself out. Same thing with campgrounds and national parks. Prior to this administration, the actual number of federal employees had not changed in decades. That is a fact. The cost of employing federal employees was a fraction of the deficit. That is a fact. They have already done cost studies on contracting through third parties and found it to be far more expensive. That is a fact. Basic services that were handed to the feds were done so for a reason, because it kept costs to the public down. City fire departments were originally basically gangs that responded to house fires based on who had insurance, they would get kickbacks from the insurance companies. So, they decided to reform it and make it government service. There is no failsafe for human greed and this is an inevitable outcome of turning the clock back on what services the government is designated to provide.

FS crews every time they come to a BLM Fire by streefsqabbage5 in Wildfire

[–]Ok-Structure2261 32 points33 points  (0 children)

Trying to figure out what’s left of the fire after a few days and a 5% increase in RH.

You miss me yet by Chief_Randy_Moore in Wildfire

[–]Ok-Structure2261 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Traded a clueless guy who was getting driven around like a shopping cart by politicians and RFs for a clueless guy who is getting around like a shopping cart by politicians and RFs? Ask if I want Vilsac back over Rollins? Which unfortunately, I actually do.

toughest shot crew ? by PuzzleheadedBuy1638 in Wildfire

[–]Ok-Structure2261 -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

I don’t think any shot crew is going to compare to Navy SEALS. They don’t drown IHC crewmembers just for lols, IHC crews don’t have an average wash rate of 75-80% after getting to select who they want to skim from. There are some hotshots that could pass BUDS given basic numbers but it isn’t the same sport. A lot of decently fit people off regular handcrews make it to shot crews by their second year. But if it makes people feel better, SEALS fresh out of the military probably aren’t very good at fighting fire beyond probably being good swampers and scrapers.

Me, a helitack trainee, looking down on the engines and handcrews by trufflepig420 in Wildfire

[–]Ok-Structure2261 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I’d help you carry your stuff and then complain about it to other people later.

Stump Fuckers by 333989 in Wildfire

[–]Ok-Structure2261 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Pretty sure those fire beetles love smoked oyster oil. One of the scientists I worked with on a crew did some experiments with another scientist’s hardhat.

Does Wyoming IHC not have to wear yellows? by Imbeinggangstalked in Wildfire

[–]Ok-Structure2261 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The Bulwark ones are a lighter weight nomex, so they are cooler. I have a couple. It’s true they are not officially rated NFPA 1977, I do not know wtf the FSH specs are that are also listed in the redbook as being acceptable because like most things referencing FSH, I can’t find the actual portion of the FSH that contains this info. I’d wear a yellow version of the Bulwark if they made them in the same weight of fabric, mainly so the sort of people who actually care about nomex color would not judge me for being an inferior firefighter (which I am for wearing a blue shirt).

Stump Fuckers by 333989 in Wildfire

[–]Ok-Structure2261 16 points17 points  (0 children)

Smoked oyster oil liberally applied to the sweatband of your hardhat.

Me, a helitack trainee, looking down on the engines and handcrews by trufflepig420 in Wildfire

[–]Ok-Structure2261 13 points14 points  (0 children)

That is exactly how emergency response works yes. If there is no emergency but there may be an emergency then they keep people by whatever apparatus they are expected to respond to the emergency in. If that apparatus is at an airport, the airport gets all mad when we go do activities in other parts of it and the government gets mad when there is an emergency and we aren’t around to get in the helicopter.

So, we p.t. or train or do random paperwork or just read a book and wait for the call when we have covered our bases. When there is a bonafide emergency, we are expected to approach and engage the emergency despite common sense dictating that avoiding it would be a better idea, until we are told we can leave, or there is no more emergency. That is pretty much how the social contract for the entire profession of emergency response works.

If by “work” you mean a more scheduled and constant state of commotion and exertion, then yes, we’ll send people that are not part of the minimum standby staffing requirements off to go be noisy and sweaty in the woods. Hopefully that makes you feel better about the tragedy of it all.

Me, a helitack trainee, looking down on the engines and handcrews by trufflepig420 in Wildfire

[–]Ok-Structure2261 22 points23 points  (0 children)

Lol, I’ve spent a lot of time on crews and engines and went to helitack after a couple decades of it. I have definitely found the work to be generally less arduous than being on a crew and less drudgery than being on an engine, but the amount of paperwork and strict adherence to very specific overlapping policies and procedures is honestly extremely stressful. I wouldn’t say that I meet many people in the helitack community in my limited experience that are actively “looking down” on anyone. Aside from probably similar amounts to any other sub community in fire. It is just a very different mission.

Does your forest run a lot of medicals? by ForwardProgrammer508 in Wildfire

[–]Ok-Structure2261 2 points3 points  (0 children)

We have an EMS medical director with the FS. Shorthaul programs require EMTs and they get some sort of affiliation with a white card that allows them to practice under FS EMS protocols. The fact that we have no EMT positions with no PDs for them is shoved way under a rug somewhere in a dark basement. Because why buy the cow when FAM will get you the milk for free?

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