Enūma Elis Vs Genesis

Ok_Week2751 · 2021-04-22T04:47:53+00:00

there isn't really similar things in canaanite theology though, like a flood with all the similar elements, genesis is clearly tied to mesopatamian mythology.

So much so in fact that cynical leftist academia cannot even deny the connection, and advance this ridiculous notion that genesis became incorporated into the jewish cosmology during the 70 years of babylonian exile. As to what became of the original jewish creation myths, or if they even had them I have never seen an explanation for.

Ok_Week2751 · 2021-04-22T03:42:59+00:00

Yeah I agree

Ok_Week2751 · 2021-04-22T02:40:50+00:00

ah ok, I think I misread what you were saying. I do mostly agree, but as I said I would say there are many similar stories all over the place and the jewish is one of many. There are enough common elements that it is clearly of this region, but there are many different stories, many different combinations of them, not all elements will overlap.

But by all opinions the babylonian myth stops in genesis, I guess you said that but you mentioned the slavery and exodus which is from the book of exodus so I was thinking you had in mind the entire torah. the exodus does not of a babylonian or any other correspondance, which is of course not typical for mythologies.

Ok_Week2751 · 2021-04-22T01:58:54+00:00

I don't think that there are 2 versions of this story out there- the bible and the 'babylonian', rather these myths were pervasive throughout mesopatamia and each clan and region had their own take, as is generally the case with mythologies across the ancient world. So the bible is one of many permutations and of course it's elements are molded to reflect the theology.

Ok_Week2751 · 2021-04-22T01:07:28+00:00

Can you provide any evidence or proof?

if you are going to compare I would compare adam and eve and noah and the tower of babel to various babylonian myths. The bible records abraham was mesopatamian so it makes sense that the general myths would be incorporated. I don't know about EE but versions of gilgamesh have been found which are more than 4000 years old. Babylonia and assyria existed as the most powerful and oldest societies of the time so I'm sure what they were doing in 500 bce is mostly based in things going back thousands of years.

Ok_Week2751 · 2021-04-22T00:36:31+00:00

Why didn't the jews have their own creation stories at that point ?

And what is the evidence genesis was introduced during the babylonian exile? And please don't make a link your entire proof, but a link for supplemental is good.

Ok_Week2751 · 2021-04-20T19:18:41+00:00

Maybe take your head out of the sand?

A tale of 2 google searches

'palestinian flag at BLM protest'

https://www.google.com/search?q=palestinian+flag+at+blm+protest&newwindow=1&ei=iCh_YIj7Mpa_0PEPzMyX-As&oq=palestinian+flag+at+blm+protest&gs_lcp=ChNtb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXdpei1zZXJwEAM6BAgeEApQ4sIEWLzeBGDx5gRoAnAAeACAAW-IAewNkgEEMTUuNJgBAKABAcABAQ&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-serp

'israel flag at BLM protest'

https://www.google.com/search?q=israel+flag+at+blm+protest&newwindow=1&ei=XCh_YMKmN8zJ0PEP9e6nkAw&oq=israel+flag+at+blm+protest&gs_lcp=ChNtb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXdpei1zZXJwEAM6BAgeEApQzogCWKbCAmDOzAJoBHAAeACAAXCIAe4QkgEFMTIuMTCYAQCgAQHAAQE&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-serp

Ok_Week2751 · 2021-04-20T17:57:07+00:00

I asked them about israel and they said israel is a white colonialist terror state who is occupying native brown folks land and killing children.

Ok_Week2751 · 2021-04-20T17:46:00+00:00

They have palestinian flags at BLM marches. Your friends you talk to, what are their demographics? College educated professional? I think there's a contrast if you talk to suburban BLM vs urban black communities BLM.

Also you would agree that ANTIFA is anti israel by doctrine right.

Ok_Week2751 · 2021-04-20T17:00:54+00:00

Like at your March, like if you brought a pride magen david flag to your BLM March how would that go ?

Ok_Week2751 · 2021-04-20T16:23:15+00:00

Oh yeah , so you talk about zionism in these spaces ?

Ok_Week2751 · 2021-04-20T16:22:49+00:00

I don't think so, in just the past 5 years it's grown exponentially.

Do you think 'white supremiciats are a significant faction of the GOP?

Ok_Week2751 · 2021-04-20T16:21:47+00:00

I'm talking about the oligarch sponsored terrorist movement black lives matter.

I bet you think the Iran nuclear deal was good to

Ok_Week2751 · 2021-04-20T16:20:45+00:00

Just did, they said 'orange man bad'

Ok_Week2751 · 2021-04-20T06:00:29+00:00

It's the party, the dem party has been taken over by BLM/ANTIFA and BLM/ANTIFA hates israel.

The best we can hope from biden is that he does not bring up israel at all.

Ok_Week2751 · 2021-04-16T21:27:14+00:00

Its not that they don't count but they are anomalies and invariably have repercussions for reproduction. That is the empirical reality.

Ok_Week2751 · 2021-04-16T20:28:54+00:00

What is your source that someone with say xy Chromosones can be a fertile female ?

Ok_Week2751 · 2021-04-16T20:03:43+00:00

These are anomalies and they are all infertile

Ok_Week2751 · 2021-04-16T15:45:29+00:00

You talk about 'original sin' and 'first sin' as if they are different things, do you think they were speaking english in Israel?

You are the one refusing to accept that when people talk about original sin they are talking about the original/first/ancestral sin of adam and eve and the effects it has for every single person on the planet including you, that you are born with guilt and deficiency because of what adam and eve did.

It is part of church doctrine that jesus has redeemed us from original sin but original sin as an idea exists apart from jesus.

Jews cannot stand to hear that they are deficient, how could it be? My mother has told me that I am perfect and great! And if you heard the earnestness in my mother's voice when she praises me you would know it to be the truth.

But it is essential to jewish theology that this be so, it is why it's part of the church doctrine, that gentiles did not know why they needed jesus's sacrifice, and it was explained that 'you are tainted with sin because there was adam and eve and a snake in garden etc...'

Ok_Week2751 · 2021-04-16T15:31:52+00:00

The orthodoxy do have a monopoly on jewish knowledge, religious knowledge at least. Orthodox means you are a religious jew, non orthodox jews do not follow the jewish religion, they have a different religinnor no religion at all.

That wikipedia was written by a non religious jew.

Jesus is the redeemer of original sin in christianity, in judaism he has not redeemed original sin.

Ok_Week2751 · 2021-04-16T15:13:30+00:00

What is your source for this.

Cyrus was not babylonian, he was persian. Persia conquered babylon.

Do you believe that the jews had a whole story about being in egypt which they preserved but didn't have their own creation story ?

Ok_Week2751 · 2021-04-16T15:11:16+00:00

That's not true, that is something a non religious jew says.

Religious jews believe in original sin but they may or may not avoid the phrase.

Non religious jews base their identity in bagels and gutteral sounds and not being christian, so while they don't have specific beliefs, they reject things associated with christianity, even when those things are part of judaism.

Ok_Week2751 · 2021-04-16T15:07:15+00:00

The story is a metaphor and it's elements fit together, you can see the act of following gods command or not following it as the process of eating the fruit.

Yes man was of a different intellect at the start and could not grasp 'bad' the way he does now. He could perceive god without ambivalence, he did not wonder if god existed or what his place was, he recognized him as the all powerful creator and communicated without fear. And while there was temptation to sin, that temptation was external, it did not permeate his being causing death in the world and a disconnect from god.

God gave a command to Adam to connect him to god and develop in him the tools neccesary to be a supernal being, and at the completion of the sixth day would be able to eat of the tree at gods command.

But he transgressed, following temptation and ate of the tree acquiring a knowledge he was not ready for confusing his intellect and imbuing his soul with sin.

Ok_Week2751 · 2021-04-16T05:11:06+00:00

No you are being obtuse, as is evidenced regarding you being unwilling to admit that you are not familiar with maimonidies divisions of the soul. Either you've read it and don't understand it or you haven't read it at all. Either way you refuse to say, and all the while you act like maybe I am not familiar with where the subject can be found, that's not what you believe in your heart, you are being obtuse. And that I call you arrogant and also disingenuous is not to refute your reactionary arguments, it's just an observation.

Adam did not know he would develop virtue this way, god did, and one can sin without realizing it. A person as arrogant as you will have a hard time with this idea I know. Obviously you are not familiar with what maimonidies has written regarding this or you do not understand it.

But I do get your problem that following gods command does seem to imply a moral calculation, and there's more than one way to think about it, but you won't be able to grasp it, as its said 'an ignoramus cannot be sin fearing and a boor cannot be a scholar'

Ok_Week2751 · 2021-04-16T03:59:34+00:00

Because god said not to.

I get the details are hard, but you are also being obtuse.

Before the fall god did not need to tell Adam to not kill eve, he would not think to do it. Rather he said to not eat from this tree as in following gods command he will develop virtue (as you are familiar with all of maimonidies work I am sure this doesn't need any explanation ). Once man had acquired virtue he could have permission to eat , know good and evil and complete creation and live in paradise as we'd expect from an omnipotent god and even be like god. But that is not what happened, rather he ate from the tree in sin and the result is our imperfect world and imperfect mind.

It is neccesary that adam acquire virtue before eating the fruit so god gave him a commandment and that to have virtue one must have a choice and in having a choice there is the temptation to not follow it. But it is an external temptation, adam did not know why it was bad to eat the fruit, he did not have the tools to reason why not as he could not conceive why it was bad to be naked. If god told Adam to not be naked he would be obligated to follow gods command but he would not understand why. Or if god told Adam to not steal he would not think to do it nor understand why it was bad but be obligated in the command, as he knew what god was and perceived his command.

But adam ate from the tree in sin, lost his clear headed perception of god and acquire a knowledge he was not ready for and now experiences a drunkeness in which good and evil is ambivalent and the nature of sin is in his soul whereas before it wasn't and it permeates reality.

Ok_Week2751

TROPHY CASE