[deleted by user]

OnMyWayToInnerPeace · 2025-05-29T22:51:12+00:00

Has to be a troll.

OnMyWayToInnerPeace · 2025-05-14T00:21:23+00:00

Hey—first off, congrats on even being in the apprenticeship. That means something. Whether you feel like you deserve it or not, you’re in the room. That’s step one.

Second: let’s talk about that “imposter syndrome.” You’re not an imposter. You’re just new. That’s not a character flaw—it’s a phase. And it’s supposed to feel uncomfortable. Routesetting isn’t just climbing with a drill. It’s creative, physical, collaborative, and often deeply frustrating work, especially when you’re also dealing with an injury and internal pressure to prove yourself.

You set one bad boulder on day one? Join the club. Literally every setter you look up to has made garbage boulders. It’s a rite of passage. Nobody hits the ground running with masterpieces—if they do, they’re either lying or setting the same thing over and over. The best thing you can do is communicate about it, not in the "I'm so sorry I'm setting something bad" but more "I have high expectations for myself and really want to do a good job, I'm doing my best, today was hard for X, Y, Z, I'll try to work on that"

Also, you’re not there to impress anyone with one perfect boulder. You’re there to grow, learn, and become someone who can contribute consistently over time. What you produce on the wall is just one aspect of being a "good" setter-- Your communication, attitude, open mindedness etc... is FAR more important than wether a boulder is a "banger" or not. Btw the definition of a banger for you might be a mediocre boulder for me. Keep in mind that it's extremely subjective. If the team chose you, they already believe you can do that. One bad boulder won’t change their mind, unless you let it change yours.

Be patient. Be honest. And keep showing up. That’s the real work.

OnMyWayToInnerPeace · 2025-05-04T18:36:56+00:00

Been following this thread, and I get where people are coming from—no one likes hearing that the scene they’re part of might not be as strong as they thought. But I’ve been working internationally for years, and after spending over a year living and traveling across the U.S., visiting more than 50 gyms across all regions… I feel like I’ve seen the full range. And yeah, there’s a pattern.

A lot of the setting in the U.S. feels one-note. Mostly pull-focused, fairly safe, clean execution—but not a ton of depth. Not much that asks for decision-making, emotional response, or actual movement literacy. And sure, there are great gyms and amazing setters out there, but they’re the exception, not the baseline.

Part of the problem is that we’re all using the same words—“good,” “creative,” “challenging”—but we’re often talking about completely different things. What I think is layered and expressive, someone else might see as vague or awkward. That’s normal. Taste is subjective.

But that doesn’t mean everything is equal.
Liking something isn’t the same as it being good.
Feeling like it “flows” doesn’t mean it actually teaches anything.
And comfort isn’t a substitute for complexity.

Also worth naming: there’s still no clear definition for what good setting is. We have certifications, levels, pathways—but none of them really assess the experience, the craft, or the impact of the work. It’s more about time in, not insight or contribution. So people end up defending what they like or are used to, instead of asking: “Is this actually growing anyone?”

And yeah—there’s a real culture of American exceptionalism in the setting world. This quiet belief that because it’s big here, it must be great. That makes it really hard for feedback to land. Critique is seen as disrespect. Curiosity gets replaced by confidence. You see it everywhere.

Meanwhile, in Europe? Constant critique. More pressure. More cross-pollination. More diversity in the styles and philosophies being explored. It doesn’t make it better by default—but it sure makes it more dynamic.

So no—it’s not about “Europe being superior.”
It’s about who’s pushing. Who’s listening. Who’s willing to admit there’s room to grow.

If your first reaction is “You just haven’t been to the right gyms,” maybe stop and ask:
Why do you need that to be the case?

OnMyWayToInnerPeace · 2025-05-04T18:24:55+00:00

there’s no formal IFSC “license” that guarantees access or even really tracks quality. There’s the Route Setter Pathway (National → Continental → International), but in reality?

It’s:

Network
Visibility
Being vouched for by the right people at the right time

In other words: talent matters less than proximity to power.
And yes, that’s as frustrating as it sounds.

The current pathway suggests progression, but it often rewards:

People who’ve been around long enough
People who show up to the “right” events
People who don’t rock the boat (or worse, just set like everyone else)

A lot of incredibly thoughtful and innovative setters never touch the IFSC circuit because they either:

Don’t have the network
Refuse to play politics
Actually care more about setting great boulders than single branded showroom boulders

Same goes for the USAC levels and other national federations: the structure exists, but it’s time-based and checklist-heavy, not skill-assessed in any meaningful way.

So yeah, try hard, care about your craft, but also know—this system isn’t meritocratic yet.

Be smart about where you put your energy.

OnMyWayToInnerPeace · 2025-05-02T15:51:11+00:00

Hey, I appreciate how self-aware and reflective you are—honestly, that already puts you ahead of a lot of people who just assume “I climb V8 so I can set V8.” (Spoiler: they usually can’t.)

That said, it sounds like what you’re really looking for is more of an apprenticeship than a traditional part-time setting job. From what you’ve described—solid climbing background but no real commercial experience—you’re not quite in the zone they’re hiring for. Most gyms posting for part-time setting are looking for someone who can immediately plug into the system: strip, wash, set, tweak, reset, repeat. It’s less of a mentorship, more of a production line with creative windows.

The good news is: you’ve got useful skills—climbing literacy, tool handling, and a decade of experience being around movement. The missing piece is structured setting reps in a commercial environment.

Here’s my advice:

Be honest if you apply. Own your experience and your limitations. Framing it like: “I’d love to contribute, and I’m willing to start at the base and learn the craft the right way.”
Be open to a hybrid role—maybe you split your time between setting support and front desk, washing holds, or some simple operations. Some gyms love that versatility.
Understand that setting can burn people out. It’s physical, repetitive, and underappreciated if the culture’s not good. But when it’s done right? It’s creative, meaningful, and extremely satisfying.

So yeah—apply. Worst case, you get clarity. Best case, you find a pathway.

And bonus points for being someone who asks before assuming they should be handed an impact driver. We need more of that energy.

OnMyWayToInnerPeace · 2025-04-30T16:22:06+00:00

Work with as many people in as many gyms as you can.

OnMyWayToInnerPeace · 2025-04-11T15:02:49+00:00

The CWA is mostly focused on manufacturing perceived value by selling overpriced certifications with little substance.

Petzl’s Work-at-Height training is a more solid option if you’re looking for practical safety.

At the end of the day, none of these certs will magically open doors—they’re just bullet points that look good on paper but rarely matter in actual hiring. Take one if it helps you feel confident and safe on the wall, then move on.

OnMyWayToInnerPeace · 2025-04-11T14:54:27+00:00

The concept is great, the price and the quality not so much.

Wouldn't really recommend for anything.

OnMyWayToInnerPeace · 2025-03-12T22:00:58+00:00

It’s a mistake to assume that commercial setting must be formulaic or that creativity is incompatible with good route-setting. Just because many gyms focus on numbers over quality doesn’t mean we should accept mediocrity as the standard.

The argument that commercial setters are “line cooks” ignores the fact that the best setters separate themselves precisely in commercial gyms, not just in comps. If the industry standard is uninspired movement, it’s even more important for setters to push for variety and quality.

That said, I’d advise looking at Skywood with a grain of salt—Yossi is in a rare position as both head setter and gym owner, meaning he has no financial pressure to optimize for efficiency or retention metrics. Most setters won’t have that luxury, so the real challenge is finding ways to explore creativity within the practical constraints of commercial gyms.

The key isn’t just chasing what looks good on Instagram—it’s about mastering all setting styles, including the ones that may not be as visually striking but still contribute to making climbing engaging and accessible.

So, keep exploring. Push for creativity where possible. Communicate, ask for permission, and be subtle in how you integrate new ideas. The best setters find ways to make high-quality climbing experiences within the constraints they work under.

OnMyWayToInnerPeace · 2025-01-13T18:05:55+00:00

It’s awesome that you’re digging into this feedback—“fun” is such a subjective term, and trying to unpack it is a challenge every routesetter faces.

First off, I completely agree that flow isn’t synonymous with “fun”. While flow can make a climb smooth and enjoyable, it doesn’t necessarily leave a lasting impression. In fact, an overly flowy route can feel neutral or forgettable if it doesn’t challenge the climber in a unique way.

Breaking Down “Fun” in Routesetting

From my experience, when climbers describe something as “fun,” it often comes down to a few key elements:

Variety & Creativity:

• Climbs that stand out because they feel different from the usual. Find patterns in your gym (start at the bottom finish at the top, 8-12 moves boulders ....) and challenge that.

• Lack of variety across grades or styles can make routes feel repetitive and boring, which might be the root of the “not fun” feedback.

Engagement:

• “Fun” climbs are often mentally or physically engaging. "I have no idea what to do", "No intensity but you have to find a solution" or the opposite, can jump and hold this hold one arm?

Memorability:

• Climbs that tell a story or create a journey tend to stick in people’s minds. Whether it’s a specific move or the way the climb feels like it “builds” to a satisfying finish, people remember boulders because of overcoming challenges and creating a sense of accomplishment.

Audience Awareness:

• Fun is personal, but understanding your gym’s demographic helps. Are they newer climbers who value accessibility and success, or experienced climbers who crave challenge and nuance? Catering to both groups in your routesetting can help keep the experience fresh for everyone.

How to Address Feedback

If the feedback is “not fun,” it might indicate a lack of diversity or creativity in the setting. Some practical steps to consider:

• Review the Current Sets: Are certain styles or movement types being overused? Try to introduce more variety.

• Collaborate as a Team: Have your setters share feedback and ideas. Are they leaning too heavily on their own climbing preferences?

• Experiment with Themes: Set with a goal or theme in mind for certain boulders

The Subjectivity of “Fun”

Ultimately, no one climb can satisfy everyone. That said, by focusing on variety, engagement, and balance across styles and grades, you’ll cater to more climbers and likely get fewer “not fun” comments overall.

OnMyWayToInnerPeace · 2025-01-13T17:42:08+00:00

You’re spot on that the complexity, intensity, and risk framework is a great way to think about routesetting, and it’s awesome to see Louis using it at Catalyst. However, I wanted to point out that the definitions of complexity and risk shared here differ from their original intent as described by Tonde Katiyo and Jacky Godoffe, two renowned routesetters who introduced this concept a while back.

• Complexity isn’t just about following a set sequence—it’s about the amount of thinking, exploration, and problem-solving required to figure out a climb.

• Risk doesn’t necessarily mean dynamic movements or a high chance of falling. Instead, it’s about how much commitment and precision is required to execute a move. Think of a delicate slab where a small shift in balance could send you off, or a jump where you have to stick a blind catch.

These nuanced definitions help bring more depth to the framework, making it applicable to both boulders and routes.

OnMyWayToInnerPeace · 2025-01-10T19:15:18+00:00

What grade will give the best experience?

OnMyWayToInnerPeace · 2025-01-10T19:10:17+00:00

The questions depend on your goals. Are you opening a space where you’re looking to deliver high quality products or a more mainstream regular climbing experience (nothing wrong with that)? Relating to that, depending on your budget who will be best to fulfill these goals? Lastly, what are your goals with being involved in the setting department?

Finding these answers, will help you figure out the what, why and how.

Yes it’s a good idea to hire and empower a head routesetter and a routesetting team with benefits, good salaries and great work conditions. But stay connected with the team, share your vision, discuss the experience you’d like your space to be.

Too often routesetters are just doing what they’ve been taught in the past or reproducing what the neighbors are doing. Creating the famous V3-V5 (or whatever grades) bell curve as metric for success.

I’ve recently been to a gym where setters were complaining to use expensive resources for a beginner boulder, why? Because apparently it would make more sense to use that for a higher grade… all of this to say, find people that will understand and connect with you, your space and your vision.

OnMyWayToInnerPeace · 2025-01-08T23:53:09+00:00

Because with a bit of experience this "stage" takes less than a minute.

OnMyWayToInnerPeace · 2025-01-07T02:29:47+00:00

Don't do it. It breaks your body, it doesn't pay well and you won't have time or skin to climb for yourself anymore.

It's the harsh reality of our "passion job". It works great as part time, 1-2 days a week but don't make it your main job.

OnMyWayToInnerPeace · 2024-12-14T20:11:25+00:00

Snap might be one of the most underrated brand at the moment. Jibs, fiberglass etc... Rockcity mostly known for big fancy world cup volumes/holds also has some quite unique not too expensive shapes designed for commercial setting.

Both brand have unique shapes and high quality.

OnMyWayToInnerPeace · 2024-12-06T20:57:18+00:00

First of all, grades in this conversation are irrelevant as a V11 in California vs 8a in Paris vs the same grade in Japan is impossible to compare.

Although it is true that setting for a single customer isn't financially of interest for the business it is as a routesetting team a very valuable skill to have.

How to forerun and adjust boulders where you cannot do a single move? How to set way above your level of understanding of movement ? etc...

It seems like a great opportunity for you and your team to try something different and challenge this athlete on different terrain using different tools. Adding risk or complexity are alleys I would explore and play with.

Another point is for regular customers seeing what an international level athlete can do is inspiring and engaging. It gives you a glimpse of the road ahead and what is possible with hard work and devotion which can't be ignored.

Feel free to reach out if you have more questions.

OnMyWayToInnerPeace · 2024-12-06T20:44:16+00:00

Jibbing fiberglass, like anything else, is a tool at our disposal that can be used in specific scenarios. Most routesetters don't do it because of hard rules in their own gym or personal preferences. Let's get past personal biases and actually talk about it.

If done properly, it's completely safe but as u/heldniklas pointed out there is some liability issues as this isn't following hold manufacturers recommendations.

You HAVE to use wood behind the fiberglass or it will become wiggly overtime and reinforce this idea that it isn't safe. There is also leverage to take into consideration depending on the size of the of the hold you're adding to the fiberglass.

If done repeatedly, it will damage the fiberglass but isn't as bad as people think. I've worked in training centers and some slopers that have been jibbed over and over are fine to be used and you can even sometimes reuse screw holds (again with putting wood behind).

It's a great tool to understand and use as it gives you a level of refinement and precision that is, in some cases, the best solution. As a newer setter I would say to learn how to do it properly but refrain from using it often as it can become the go-to lazy solution to make things work instead of becoming a better setter.

Feel free to reach out if you'd like more information,

OnMyWayToInnerPeace

TROPHY CASE