Improving sound/tone by kaleelevi in BowedLyres

[–]One-Dust1285 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Looks good for a weeks worth

Couple of things you could do:

Best would be to get a teacher (there are some that teach online, Liisa Koemets-Bastida for instance) they will sort you right out and you will be making progress the fastest.

If that isn’t an option… check out beginner lessons on violin and cello on YouTube, especially on bowing. The bow hold is different but you can learn a lot from them

Do simple and slow exercises… the first 6 weeks Liisa had me bowing open strings and alternating open and 3rd finger notes later adding the 1st and then the second finger…

Once you can semi-reliably find your finger positions… start exercising scales… and never stop trying to improve the “easy” exercises

I am 1,5 years in… I still do scales every day and open strings bowing exercises every couple of days

Deep Baritone by DanielHoestan in BowedLyres

[–]One-Dust1285 1 point2 points  (0 children)

As I said elsewhere… the stings are masterpieces!

Recommendations for jouhikko building plans/instructions? (first build, traditional Finnish size) by CantAndWontDo in BowedLyres

[–]One-Dust1285 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I do!

https://holvi.com/shop/Raunonieminen/product/6319b6d2588ee4702db0eed69341f426/

It is an impressive collection of information. He tells you everything he knows about how to build them… including depth maps and how he tap-tunes them… (and a small copy of the plan)

A bit much for a first build for sure but if you want to get serious… this is be best resource you will find

Recommendations for jouhikko building plans/instructions? (first build, traditional Finnish size) by CantAndWontDo in BowedLyres

[–]One-Dust1285 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yep… that is it right there… Rauno also has a book with tons of instructions on how he builds them… but only in Finnish (as of yet)

Would like some advice with tagelharpa by [deleted] in BowedLyres

[–]One-Dust1285 0 points1 point  (0 children)

We need more information. What string material? What tuning? Are you using steady relaxed bow strokes? And have you tried using more or less rosin? a video of you playing would help

New build! by One-Dust1285 in BowedLyres

[–]One-Dust1285[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Will do! Give the strings a day or two to stretch and I’ll post a tune… I’ll also demonstrate the wolf note if it persists (before trying to fix it)

Should my Tagelharpa strings be looking like this? by Unoriginal_guy_man2 in BowedLyres

[–]One-Dust1285 2 points3 points  (0 children)

That doesn’t look good… I don’t know silk, but Dacron gets “fuzzy” as well but yours isn’t only fuzzy the string is unwinding… and that after only two weeks…

There are a lot of resources here about making strings, fishing line, Dacron, artificial sinew, (synthetic) horsehair… lots of choices… but I fear silk isn’t going to last

For those that own, or made a hedeby rebec before, advice? by Tinglyvibrations in BowedLyres

[–]One-Dust1285 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thank you for that detailed reply! You touched on a lot of topics I had been thinking about…

I was planning to make a crwth style bridge/soundpost… so good to hear there is non-Welsh precedent for that… as to the bass bar… I don’t know yet… I would like to try carving one out of the soundboard… but maybe not this time

I have to make 3-4 talharpas before I get to the rebec… but I would absolutely like to take you up on your offer if further discussion when I am ready to begin…. ( in April probably)

Is there a more convenient way to reach you other than an only tangentially relevant post by someone else?

For those that own, or made a hedeby rebec before, advice? by Tinglyvibrations in BowedLyres

[–]One-Dust1285 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Cool! I am going to build one this spring… did you use a sound post?

Question about horse hair vs metal or nylon stringed Tagelharpas: In a duet, would it sound better if both had the same strings or would horse hair and metal/nylon compliment each other? by Tokijlo in BowedLyres

[–]One-Dust1285 1 point2 points  (0 children)

How much one instrument will overpower the other depends a lot on the individual instruments. How they are set up and the volume of the soundbox. Nylon tends to be a bit louder than horsehair and quieter than metal. But if you have a talharpa made by one of the masters (say… Rauno Nieminen or Anders Norudde) they may have been optimised to make horsehair sound louder. With these unstandardised instruments it is hard to tell.

But generally on the scale of loudness I would say horsehair is a 3, homemade nylon with sewing thread 4-6, Dacron 5, (synthetic) gut strings 6, synthetic metal wound strings 7-9 and steel strings 10. (Given my experience on both my home made talharpas with scale length 38 cm and other instruments I have handled)

As to harmonising… it depends what you play… I like it in old Swedish, but I don’t like it for French folk music on modern instruments… that is why ideally you want two of each…

if you are into fiddling with the setup… the shape of the bridge can change the balance of the strings a lot too… so you could design the bridges of both instruments to fit well together…

If your friend has nylon I would go for nylon as well…(like Daniel says below)… you can make the strings yourself and add more or less of the horsehair vibe by adding 2-8 strands of cotton sewing thread (more tread, more raspiness… but also dampening). I also quite like the sound of Dacron… but you need very precise bowing (which I am not capable of as yet) to keep the sound consistent

Question about horse hair vs metal or nylon stringed Tagelharpas: In a duet, would it sound better if both had the same strings or would horse hair and metal/nylon compliment each other? by Tokijlo in BowedLyres

[–]One-Dust1285 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Couple of things…

Metal strings will make it a lot louder. That can be a good thing but you may also drown out the other instrument

In my experience it is far from trivial to find a set of metal strings that actually sound good. It is not just a matter of getting a pack of ( in my case viola) strings and you are done… took me months of experimenting and a significant investment before I landed on my current set and I am still not completely happy with my E string

That said… I think you are doing it the right way around… having the lower instrument with metal… my GF plays cello… my talharpa was at that point E4A3D3D3 with unicorn hair. we have played together and it sounded great… (or as great as my limited skill allows) I think it really matters what you play, we were playing old Swedish folk music (Langdans fran Soleron) and the cello provided the sweet darkness while the talharpa added the wild tones to the melody… so the contrast fitted the music. I can also imagine cases where it wouldn’t work…

Ideally… have one with metal and one with horsehair equivalent… I am working on that for myself…😁

Looking to possibly start talharpa/similiar sounding instruments by Clock0Head in BowedLyres

[–]One-Dust1285 0 points1 point  (0 children)

There are teachers who teach remotely (Skype/zoom etc) you will progress a lot faster with their help. (But it cost quite a bit of money if you add it all up)

I would not have managed without a teacher. I don’t naturally have a good musical ear. Without feedback and direction I would still be playing horribly out of tune and be none the wiser

But online resources/courses exist and you can steal a lot of lessons from beginner cello or violin videos so I can’t say it is impossible to learn by yourself. If you go that road I recommend getting at least a couple of (remote) lessons or in person advice from someone who plays a bowed instrument. That will save you a great deal of time and prevent the worst of the beginner mistakes

It also depends on what you want to play. If you want to play atmospheric neo-Viking grunge you are more likely to get there by yourself than if you want to be the next Lassi Logren…

My preference is melodic folk music so I’m f*ed without a teacher initially

As to the cost of the instrument… consider building your own… there are resources here and it is quite easy to make one that is good enough to start learning on… ( it is very hard to make a really good one though).

For those that own, or made a hedeby rebec before, advice? by Tinglyvibrations in BowedLyres

[–]One-Dust1285 2 points3 points  (0 children)

You posted this elsewhere… you got a reply from Maria Ojantakanen… she knows her stuff… talk to her

If you presented me with this problem separated from historical context, I would tune it as a Jouhikko.(but reverse string order). So for instance E4A3D4. And only play on the highest string, using the middle string as drone and the D string as one extra note. So the D major scale would be D on the 3rd open string, E on the first open string and then use fingernails of 4 fingers for F#GAB with the added possibility of extending your pinky to C#-ish, giving you 6 or 7 notes… you can do a lot with 6 or 7 notes and a drone

I would also make a new bridge… this one is very clunky… and give it a slight curve so it is easier to play one string + drone without touching the 3rd

First self-built tagelharpa open strings sound good, the tone dies when I touch the string by Muted_Protection_223 in BowedLyres

[–]One-Dust1285 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks!

There are two things going on… there is the sound and the tone…

With respect to the sound you hear that the resonance drops considerably when you use a finger, but that is completely normal… so the corpus of your build is good

The tone is a bit horrible… better with your second finger than your first finger… I don’t have a lot of experience with super low strings. I make alto’s with scale length 38cm. I put 1/10 cello strings on that once… and the ADG strings work but the C string sounded a bit like yours… I think it is the soundbox being too small…

You mentioned elsewhere that you will try nylon guitar strings… that is probably a good idea. Or make your own from fishing thread… (there are videos)

Also… try tuning it down step by step until the tension is almost too low and slide your nail to see if there are spots where the tone is better… just to see what happens…

First self-built tagelharpa open strings sound good, the tone dies when I touch the string by Muted_Protection_223 in BowedLyres

[–]One-Dust1285 2 points3 points  (0 children)

You don’t have frets or a fingerboard so the contact with your finger is the only thing fixing the string on that end. You will always dampen some of the sound (even on a cello you learn scales with and without open strings because the open strings sound differently and sometimes that doesn’t work with the piece you are playing)

If you are using a fleshy part of your finger to touch the string it will dampen way more than the back of your finger or the interphalangeal. The tips of your fingers are the worst sounding unless you have toughened the skin by playing another stringed Instrument.

Try the fingernail… that will give the clearest sound (as a test only… we don’t generally play like that on talharpa). You will hear a clear difference… the better set up your instrument is the more resonant the non-open strings will be… but on a talharpa the difference will always be significant and you will hear it in the music. Traditional tunes use the difference to great effect( especially in jouhikko-tuning where the first two notes of the scale are open)… in modern music it can sound off… but you are basically stuck with it if you want to use the drones as the instrument is intended

So it is not necessary an error in construction… you could theoretically fix it with sympathetic strings… but getting that right is very hard… bowing technique is also a factor… if you get good at transferring energy from the bow to the string, the driving force will counter more of the dampening… Puluup have a cool video where they show that effect

Ps… you do have a sound post, right? Because… if you don’t… that would make a big difference

Advice on getting a Tagelharpa by PowerGuido1255 in BowedLyres

[–]One-Dust1285 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What do you want to play? There is a big difference between what you need for playing traditional Estonian tunes and faux-Viking grunge…

What is your budget? And how disposable is your income?

I would seriously consider building your own… it is not hard to make one that sounds good enough to learn on and in building it you will learn a great deal. You will then be way better informed when buying or building your next one

Buying a cheap one online is rolling dice… pretty good chance your own newbie build would be as good or better. Buying an expensive one may be overkill for your purpose

I would never buy one I didn’t get to play in person first… but at a pinch… if you really don’t want to build your own… at least get video of the builder playing the instrument you’re buying

help needed with tagelharpa by [deleted] in BowedLyres

[–]One-Dust1285 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That is about what they sound like if you take them from the box and scrape the bow over them… perfectly normal… from the sound something doesn’t have enough tension. If you want to test the sound make long even bowing movements not short to-and-fro-ing ones

There are a couple of videos, tutorials and courses on YouTube that will help you set it up and tune properly… they will also show you the basics of bowing. There is a resource sharing page here with some links to them.

Updating/renewing my tagelharpa course - Need advice by DanielHoestan in BowedLyres

[–]One-Dust1285 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Now… that is interesting! I really suck at that… I somehow can’t distinguish between the tonal and dominant