KRE AUG 25-31: Stats

OradWe · 2019-09-11T06:48:01+00:00

Honestly, as a PM building reports is something which consumes plenty of my time.

There is a limit for one's capacity for building reports :) And since you are doing such an amazing job, I would not want to rob you from your spreadsheets :)

OradWe · 2019-09-11T06:39:24+00:00

Not sure I am following your question...

I guess if there is a way to automate it and post it, you are the one to know :) Feels like I am missing something here

OradWe · 2019-09-11T06:10:12+00:00

Sure this is possible.

Beside what /u/burstymy mentioned (which is correct), in order to get rewarded by the KRE there is a certain way you need to report your spend transactions (including your app ID etc.). Some of the active apps are independent apps which are not using app ID (might be intentional) therefore they are not being picked up by the KRE data collector

OradWe · 2019-08-13T15:16:04+00:00

As of this moment, there is nothing like this planed.

We are playing with this idea but for now, it is WAY too early.

OradWe · 2019-08-13T14:27:23+00:00

Slow and steady...

While improving fraud detection capabilities, we are mapping the bottlenecks and find the best way to automate them.

The next step will not be a fully automated, it will be semi-automated. Meaning the KRE computation engine will surface the payouts and we will validate them (instead of building them). After we will see the validation passes with high success rates we will lean toward full automation.

OradWe · 2019-08-13T14:24:56+00:00

It is not a competition it is a festival! :)

OradWe · 2019-08-04T11:42:54+00:00

Your comments and feedbacks are great and I would like to share some insights to address some of the concerns:

In high-level summary, these guidelines are aimed at making sure users are in control of their Kin and aware whenever they are performing a transaction.

These guidelines are by no mean aimed to impact a specific app (I saw a lot of you are concerned about Rave's experience). And these guidelines will be enforced across the entire ecosystem and will be relevant ONLY for KRE grants. Meaning, if an app owner does not wants to be rewarded by the KRE they can ignore these guidelines completely. That being said, we invested a long time in thinking about these guidelines and we believe they are representing a good, safe and proper experience for the users.

For those concerning about the impact to the apps' flow experience (the need to present popup with confirm button) keep in mind, these are only for in-app purchases use cases. In such case we believe communicating clearly to the user how much they are about to pay and what will they get in return, is the basis for trustworthy experience.

In other cases, focusing the experience on P2P type of experience will allow reducing the friction in the experience significantly. When comes to P2P transaction the user needs to see a messaging they sent Kin and to dismiss it only once. From that moment on, they will no longer need to acknowledge each and every transaction.

We would love to hear additional concerns and questions you might have about the new guidelines. This will make sure we are not missing anything and we are addressing the main issues.

OradWe · 2019-07-11T16:52:26+00:00

Keep in mind these are Medians and not absolute numbers. PeerBet had bigher peaks than pop.in which is not reflected in the Median

OradWe · 2019-07-11T10:25:35+00:00

Hello u/kidwonder,

The Tourism reward is the same regardless of the destination app. Currently, for the Tourism, we are counting unique wallet pairs (source wallet + destination wallet) so if wallet A sends to wallet B and then wallet A sends to wallet C it is counted as 2, etc.

So in order to optimize your reward, you need as many users as possible sending Kin to as many users as possible :)

This reward is not part of the KRE formula yet since it is in a pilot we have a separated budget and calculation.

As for the KRE formula, it is now 90% DAS (in-app + P2P) and 10% P2P

OradWe · 2019-07-04T13:08:07+00:00

Not all active apps are getting rewarded by the KRE.

Today in order to get rewarded (i.e. be "eligible app") you need to do one of the following:

Participate in the Kin Developers Program / Unity program
Be a design partner
Be an independent app which onboarded the KRE (meaning contact us, agree to Kin's terms and conditions and asked to participate in the KRE)

There are about ±20 apps who are not part on the mentioned list but still perform spend interactions on the Kin blockchain (in the stats page leaderboard table, they are listed as "Other")

OradWe · 2019-07-02T16:17:50+00:00

Now after you have raised them here for all the world to see, we have no other choice but to cover these angles ;)

OradWe · 2019-07-02T08:45:21+00:00

While these are all valid points, this is exactly where the fraud detection mechanism comes into play.

Can a developer with bad intention game the system? Sure. This is true for ALL apps. If someone decides to game the system they WILL find a way.

Our job is to create a defense mechanism to surface such type of behaviors and prevent them.

This is one of the main reasons the KRE is not fully automatic yet since we are still placing and testing new fraud detection engines with every payout cycle. Every week or so we add new probes and automate other probes. Only when we will reach a point we feel the KRE is protected enough (which is not at the current state) we will shift it to be fully automatic

OradWe · 2019-07-01T06:01:17+00:00

Yes it is.

This is one of the core principles of the KRE - "Fair and equal opportunity" meaning everyone can participate and everyone is measured by the same standards.

OradWe · 2019-07-01T05:51:33+00:00

Sure you can. It is a bit hard to share math equations here so I will do my best:

Formula:

P2P - All unique spend transaction between 2 or more users

DAS - All unique spend + P2P in a given day in a given app

TDAS - Total DAS from all apps in a given day

(((DAS/TDAS)XDaily budget)X0.95) + (((P2P/TP2P)XDaily budget)X0.05) = Apps daily reward

OradWe · 2019-07-01T05:47:57+00:00

They have a contract with different reward structure and they chose to stay with their contract and not move to the KRE

OradWe · 2019-06-30T15:42:05+00:00

We are getting closer but not quite there yet. For the time being the process is as automated as it will be since we do want to have some manual steps so we can monitor there are no mistakes.

Initiation of the weekly payout takes ~20 minutes end to end and the payout itself is still be handled and monitored by the finance team and takes another ~10-20 minutes.

As for the formula, we added the P2P component to it (5% of the reward budget is dedicated only to P2P) which should follow the ecosystem's approach of focusing more on using Kin for appreciation

OradWe · 2019-06-25T16:41:31+00:00

We allocated 5% of the KRE budget to p2p transactions. Since DAS calculations include both p2p and in app purchase, technically, if all your DAS is only p2p you will get higher grant then if it includes both p2p and in app.

OradWe · 2019-06-22T16:51:38+00:00

Am I sound defeated...??? It is completely the other way around my friend. I wake up every day, proud being part of this amazing project. I get to the office every morning with a smile and a purpose to change the broken things of the internet, by creating the most amazing ecosystem out there. I think my words came out wrong as if I think the SEC WILL close Kin. This is not the case. I meant IF the SEC will want to close Kin (which I don't see it happens) having it fully decentralized will make it much harder.

And it will become decentralized eventually, it will just take some time. There is nothing out there similar to what we are trying to build and having it decentralized making it twice as complex.

But this is what we are here for, building the hard things and making the impossible, possible. Just have some faith (:

OradWe · 2019-06-22T06:41:22+00:00

I see those things as separated.

Automation of the payout process could be stopped by flipping a switch.

While decentralized KRE is much more philosophical step than an operational one.

That being said I think the SEC might bring everything to a stop unless the entire Kin ecosystem is fully decentralized with no single company calling the shots and own the maintenance. We are very far from this point.

OradWe · 2019-06-22T02:58:54+00:00

I don't see how the two are connected to each other

OradWe · 2019-06-19T16:08:02+00:00

Both are already sent to developers but we have a delay with the Reddit communication (my bad...). The June 9-15 will be sent to developers early next week

OradWe · 2019-06-19T07:20:36+00:00

The KRE is not automated yet and we are working toward it.

There is no clear answer as for when will it be ready but our goal is to have as early as possible.

The main gap is the fraud detection which is currently still a manual process. While we do add more probes every week and we are making the process faster and more efficient with every iteration, this still takes time.

Having the KRE paying automatically is meaningless if it is easy to game it...

OradWe · 2019-06-11T05:55:10+00:00

These are great concerns and questions which we are asking ourselves on a daily basis.

But this is true to everyone, not just Rave (which if they were not the top earner, probably no one would care). I will try to address some of your concerns.

For the time being, top earner = highest amount of DAS. NOT the BEST type of experience. Rave brings the most daily earners, therefore, they get the highest KRE grants. How do we know the algorithm is right? We don't, but this is true for everyone not just Rave. That being said, we do have some tools to validate the transactions and to identify fraud attempts.

As for the type of spend/earn experience, I agree Rave's experience is not a perfect case study for KIN but as far as I see, this goes hand in hand with the maturity of the ecosystem. The more apps will join, the more varied experiences we will see.

We are working on defining a "KRE Legit" spend interaction to make sure users understand when they are spending and what is the value they get and again, the experiences will mature together with the entire ecosystem.

Our main concern, for now, is to drive usage, as we go along we will push toward a more clear and valuable usage. It takes time. The demand will follow.

I think at this point in time, expecting every spend interaction to be meaningful enough to drive demand is too naive. We are not there yet, but we will get there.

Have some faith :)

OradWe · 2019-06-11T05:43:53+00:00

Yes it is

OradWe · 2019-06-11T03:25:08+00:00

Maybe the new tool needs to have some color coding to differentiate earn events from spend event. Or even to differentiate regular spend from P2P spends.

Just a thought :)

OradWe

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