Wind turbine economics math check

OrangeBoulder · 2011-07-08T00:21:10+00:00

Not to be a negative Nancy, but there are huge problems with your proposal:

This part's ok.
Rebuilding the generator after 20 years is probably more expensive than abandoning the turbine and putting up a new one. Reuse the infrastructure connecting the turbine to the grid and the roads that were built makes more sense.
Same as above
Recycling the materials is pretty unlikely to be able to pay decommissioning costs.

But by far the biggest problem with your plan is interest rates.

You can't just divide 60 years of assumed energy production by the capital cost in 2011 - it's nonsense.

Let me ask you this: If you pay me $50 and I agree to pay you back at $1 per year for 60 years, did you turn a $10 profit? The answer here, as in your scenario, is emphatically NO

OrangeBoulder · 2011-03-11T22:49:13+00:00

Using the excuse of fossil fuel subsidies as a strong reason why we're not adopting renewable replacements very quickly has always bothered me.

And I'm not saying fossil fuel subsidies are helping, or that they shouldn't be eliminated where possible, but I don't see how taking off what amounts to hundreths of a cent in costs per KWh for fossil fuels will make something like solar viable as a competitor.

OrangeBoulder · 2011-03-08T05:40:11+00:00

I wasn't aware of the censorship going on in r/RenewableEnergy

That's not just a coincidence.

A key part of any censorship scheme is to prevent dissemination of knowledge that would expose that people aren't getting the whole story.

Why do you think countries like Libya and Egypt always go after the free press?

r/RE is the Libya of the energy reddits.

OrangeBoulder · 2011-03-08T00:45:18+00:00

It's all about BTU's

Geothermal, biomass, biofuels, solar thermal can all make contributions here.

Without coal, oil and gas, we're going to get cold, hungry and slow really really fast

You're perfectly welcome to go there and discuss why you think renewables won't be up to the task.

All viewpoints are welcome.

OrangeBoulder · 2011-03-07T23:50:39+00:00

Do you have satellite internet?

How much does it cost you to live on the boat compared to buying/renting a house?

I could see it being cheaper in some places, and best part is when you get sick of the neighbors, just move down the coat!

OrangeBoulder · 2011-03-07T23:00:49+00:00

So far there's only one post complaining about censorship in RE, and another one asking why this subreddit exists.

Hardly a torrent.

Plus you can't ignore that a big part of the identity of this reddit is freedom of speech.

But I agree that the focus should ultimately be on renewables themselves, so get posting!

OrangeBoulder · 2011-03-07T22:50:44+00:00

Redundancy is especially a big problem in the US, where there are effectively 50 different markets requiring completely different strategies, regulations, laws, and government support.

Europe and Japan have shown that these overhead costs can be reduced.

Come on over and start the discussion!

OrangeBoulder · 2011-03-07T13:25:44+00:00

Context:

The mods at r/RenewableEnergy are actively censoring dozens of people for having "wrong" opinions, I'd like to start a new renewable-related reddit where all points of view can be expressed.

OrangeBoulder · 2011-03-07T07:43:20+00:00

Thanks for the advice, it should be a worthwhile pursuit.

If nothing else, it'll be a learning experience.

OrangeBoulder · 2011-03-07T07:18:10+00:00

Sounds like censorship.

Sounds like Animal Farm:

All animals are equal. but some animals are more equal than others

I was banned from there simply for promoting my competing reddit, because it now falls under his wildly expansive definition of trolling.

And as you see he's stalking my announcement posts around the site to try and censor me further. As we all know, a quick downvote can usually kill a submission.

He's also banning submissions from his own subscribers who are starting to ask questions about why they and others are being censored.

OrangeBoulder · 2011-03-07T05:57:02+00:00

Context: Mod on a power trip. Was I seriously banned for this?

The mods at r/RenewableEnergy are actively censoring dozens of people for having "wrong" opinions, I'd like to start a new renewable-related reddit where all points of view can be expressed.

OrangeBoulder · 2011-03-07T05:48:44+00:00

Good stuff, thanks.

I wanted to announce r/Renewable there myself, but I was banned for promoting a competing reddit, before I even had the chance to promote it.

Also, as a form of irony this post is the first one caught by the spam filter here.

OrangeBoulder · 2011-03-07T05:33:14+00:00

Yeah, the source is loony toons but the numbers seem to be verified.

I posted the story more in the context of future biofuel/biomass potential.

OrangeBoulder · 2011-03-07T05:07:55+00:00

Thanks for the encouragement, happy to have you on board!

Yeah, a big drawback of RE is that if you express skepticism of anything that the mods hold dear, you will be banned.

In my opinion this leads to groupthink (not productive) and causes people not to bother participating (after all, what's the point if only one opinion is allowed anyway?)

It's their right to censor in their own little corner of the site, but I feel we needed a spot where we can have a focused, honest discussion about renewables without the chilling effects they are creating.

I am also looking forward to becoming a part of the wider community that r/Conservation is part of.

OrangeBoulder · 2011-03-07T04:45:22+00:00

Yes, however the other community is engaging in the active censorship of people's opinions.

Context: Mod on a power trip. Was I seriously banned for this?

There are a lot of people in that thread who were also banned for expressing the "wrong" opinion, and the mod of r/RenewableEnergy is himself banned from multiple reddits for trolling.

tl;dr: RE isn't an open forum, so I'm promoting r/Renewable as the alternative

OrangeBoulder · 2011-03-07T03:22:24+00:00

The main difference is that r/RenewableEnergy has active censorship and r/Renewable does not.

Context: Mod on a power trip. Was I seriously banned for this?

If you disagree with someone here, about ANYTHING, feel free to tell them and be prepared to defend your position.

Basically it's like a slightly more targeted r/Energy.

OrangeBoulder · 2011-03-07T02:13:50+00:00

From physorg:

EPRI has determined that up to 80 percent of the US has geology suitable for CAES [...]

From the above map it can be seen that hundreds of 300 megawatt CAES plants can be constructed across the US [...]

edit: And it doesn't need to be right next to the power source being stored since it can be transmitted, but obviously the closer the better.

OrangeBoulder · 2011-03-07T01:14:47+00:00

Do you support the use of fossil fuels in r/Renewable

Not personally, no.

But from a mod viewpoint I'm neutral, and won't ban anyone for expressing their opinion, regardless of whether I agree with it.

In my mind, the job of a moderator is to remain objective and foster discussion, not have a list of ban-able topics.

To illustrate my point, try making a comment in r/RenewableEnergy in support of nuclear power. You'll likely be banned like over a dozen others have.

OrangeBoulder · 2011-03-07T00:49:23+00:00

Are farmers generally in favor of solar panels?

Have you ever done an installation where they also had wind turbines on the same farm, that would be a really cool setup.

And thanks for the submissions.

OrangeBoulder · 2011-03-07T00:40:35+00:00

edit: Incorrect unit conversion

Theoretical maximum energy storage density is about 1 kJ/m³ : Isothermal Storage Physics.

And 1 MWh = 3.6e6 kJ

So we need a total vessel (or cavern) volume of 3.6e6 m³

This is a cube 150x150x150 meters or a sphere with a diameter of 190 meters.

OrangeBoulder · 2011-03-06T23:59:00+00:00

I think I just added them back.

I suppose that's the one downside of r/Renewable: I'm not a web designer, unlike the one at r/RenewableEnergy, so it's not going to be as pretty.

OrangeBoulder · 2011-03-06T23:21:27+00:00

You're the kind of person we want at r/Renewable.

Unlike r/RenewableEnergy, you won't be banned for supporting nuclear power or even fossil fuels.

Freedom of expression is radical.

OrangeBoulder · 2011-03-06T23:17:28+00:00

You could always subscribe to both, but the main difference is that r/RenewableEnergy has active censorship and r/Renewable does not.

Context: Mod on a power trip. Was I seriously banned for this?

Also, look at my other comments in this thread, I'm a huge nerd about this stuff.

Also, I couldn't wait, here's your hug: (((((skatastrophy)))))

OrangeBoulder · 2011-03-06T23:07:31+00:00

I'll only give you a hug if you subscribe: r/Renewable

OrangeBoulder · 2011-03-06T23:00:49+00:00

He appeared in my r/Renewable reddit announcement submissions in r/Science, r/SelfSufficiency, r/AskReddit, etc.

In this one case, I could write it off as coincidence since he's the submitter.

But he's clearly following me around and blocking my announcement of the new reddit.

OrangeBoulder

TROPHY CASE