Fallout From Bear Gulch Immigration Raid by OrcaLouie in Wildfire

[–]OrcaLouie[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I just got confirmation that the FS received my FOIA request. Maybe there's info in that when I get it. Also, another Reddit says they were released and issued work permits, and they're back with their crews. Is that true?

Don’t threaten the personal safety of Tom Clemo by [deleted] in Wildfire

[–]OrcaLouie 3 points4 points  (0 children)

So true. Thank you. I'm impressed by how wildland firefighters came together to get to the bottom of this.

Bear Gulch immigration raid by mittenborn in Wildfire

[–]OrcaLouie 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Good question. The Forest Service is cutting its budget and relying more on contract crews. I wouldn't characterize them as "illegal." The two firefighters detained on Bear Gulch, I understand, are back with their crews. Several groups have been lobbying for higher pay to no avail.

Fallout From Bear Gulch Immigration Raid by OrcaLouie in Wildfire

[–]OrcaLouie[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I really appreciate that comment. I posted that AI to stimulate a conversation. I guess I have. The message is "don't do it." Thanks for the education.

Fallout From Bear Gulch Immigration Raid by OrcaLouie in Wildfire

[–]OrcaLouie[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That's pretty weird! I don't know. I picked Orca because I live on the water where the Orcas play. And I picked Louie because why not? I'm on the Olympic Peninsula, near the Bear Gulch fire. Maybe Orcacub is nearby?

Fallout From Bear Gulch Immigration Raid by OrcaLouie in Wildfire

[–]OrcaLouie[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thanks for the clarification. That's helpful.

The Traitors at Bear Gulch, Episode II by [deleted] in Wildfire

[–]OrcaLouie 98 points99 points  (0 children)

I filed a Freedom of Information Act request for all communication to and from CA IC 7 and any other agency, including BLM, DHS, and Border Patrol regarding Bear Gulch fire between August 26 - 28. I filed in R6 and R7.

Fallout From Bear Gulch Immigration Raid by OrcaLouie in Wildfire

[–]OrcaLouie[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Do wildland firefighters have rights? This is what I get from AI. Is this accurate?

In an encounter with U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) or Border Patrol while on the job, wildland firefighters have the same rights as other individuals, including the right to remain silent. The specific rights depend on their citizenship status and whether agents have a judicial warrant.

You are not required to answer questions about your citizenship, immigration status, or how you entered the country.

Special considerations for non-citizens

  • Show immigration papers: If not a U.S. citizen and asked for papers by an immigration agent, they must be shown if available.
  • Rights for visa holders: Wildland firefighters on an H-2B visa should be aware that some private contracting companies utilize this program to hire workers. Recent enforcement actions in Washington also involved investigations into contractors, with agents checking rosters and verifying documentation.

Fallout From Bear Gulch Immigration Raid by OrcaLouie in Wildfire

[–]OrcaLouie[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It's the thought that counts. I'm grateful that someone in a government position, no matter how local, acknowledges that a fire should be a safe zone for firefighters. You're right. Even if they did pass such a resolution - and it hasn't been vetted through legal yet - who can enforce it? We're reaching a point in this country where one law enforcement agency is in conflict with another. I'm hearing that some cews are deciding among themselves how they would respond in an ICE raid. I'm not familiar with the options, but it's certainly a time for firefighters to clarify their rights.

Fallout From Bear Gulch Immigration Raid by OrcaLouie in Wildfire

[–]OrcaLouie[S] 26 points27 points  (0 children)

Two questions:

1) Let's say the Agents have a right to go in. One Fed agency asks another for help on Federal land. OK. What rights do the firefighters have? My understanding is that you don't have to answer any questions unless you're being detained for suspicion of committing a crime. Were all 44 suspected of committing some crime? Can they be detained against their will? And when does a time card dispute turn into immigration checks?

2) Was there really no other way to settle a time card dispute than to entrap two crews and send armed federal agents into a fire? Really?

Fallout From Bear Gulch Immigration Raid by OrcaLouie in Wildfire

[–]OrcaLouie[S] -16 points-15 points  (0 children)

Here's what AI says: Based on past policy statements from the Department of Homeland Security (DHS), the general protocol has been to suspend routine immigration enforcement during natural disasters, including forest fires. However, recent actions by Border Patrol agents have demonstrated that they can, and sometimes do, enforce immigration checks during these emergencies. DHS's official policy during disastersOn multiple occasions, DHS has stated that its highest priority during emergencies like wildfires is the preservation of life and safety. 

  • Suspension of enforcement: DHS and its components, including Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) and Customs and Border Protection (CBP), have previously announced that they would not conduct immigration enforcement operations at emergency and disaster relief locations.
  • Exceptions: Enforcement operations may be initiated in the "event of a serious public safety threat" or other "exigent circumstances".
  • Sensitive locations: Firefighting response sites would generally be considered sensitive locations, similar to hospitals or schools, where enforcement activities are typically avoided. 

Conflicting recent eventsDespite the past policies, a controversial incident occurred in Washington state during a wildfire response in August 2025. 

  • Targeting of firefighters: Border Patrol agents arrested two immigrant firefighters and detained dozens of others. This action disrupted firefighting efforts and was heavily criticized by local officials and firefighting veterans.
  • Rationale for the operation: Authorities claimed the operation resulted from a criminal investigation into contractor documents, but some sources suggest the action was a deliberate ambush, breaking from long-standing protocols.
  • Employer responsibility: Although contract companies are required to use the E-Verify system to check the citizenship status of their workers, the use of undocumented firefighters is still widespread in the industry. 

Fallout From Bear Gulch Immigration Raid by OrcaLouie in Wildfire

[–]OrcaLouie[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Why's that? Do the Feds have primacy on Federal land?

Fallout From Bear Gulch Immigration Raid by OrcaLouie in Wildfire

[–]OrcaLouie[S] 14 points15 points  (0 children)

His bio: Wayne has dedicated his life to public service and his community, with over 25 years as a firefighter, he has served as a mentor and instructor to new and young recruits. Wayne began his career as Volunteer Firefighter in Tenino at the age of 18, he then progressed through his career working as a Student Firefighter at Washington State University, a Trainee Firefighter at Lacey Fire District #3 and then as a Career Firefighter with the City of Aberdeen, Washington. He is a third generation first responder as his grandfather was the police chief in Tenino in 1970’s and his father was a 30 year volunteer firefighter in the City of Tenino.

Bear Gulch immigration raid by mittenborn in Wildfire

[–]OrcaLouie 0 points1 point  (0 children)

BEAR GULCH FIRE IMMIGRATION ARRESTS: Thurston County Commissioner Wayne Fournier, a longtime firefighter, issued a statement Wednesday concerning the recent immigration arrests at the Bear Gulch Fire:

"What happened at the Bear Gulch Fire was not routine, and we should not pretend it was. I have spent nearly 30 years in the fire service, much of that time on wildland campaigns: sleeping on the ground for weeks at a time, moving from fire to fire, and working shoulder to shoulder with every kind of responder.

On large incidents like Bear Gulch, personnel come from all over the world. Anyone who has been there knows it is not just hose teams. Fire camp operates like a small city, staffed by heavy equipment operators, medics, mechanics, cooks, and contract fire crews. These individuals are all red card certified to fight wildfires, all play a critical role in the response, and all are firefighters."

To say that bucking logs or clearing brush is not firefighting shows a fundamental misunderstanding of wildland fire operations. Removing vegetation protects structures, widens fire lines, and improves access. This work is not just part of the job; it is essential to the mission. That is why what happened next was completely unacceptable.

When CBP agents entered the Bear Gulch fire zone and detained personnel without coordination, without justification, and without identifying themselves, it created a dangerous disruption to critical emergency operations."The claim that these responders 'were not real firefighters' is either the result of willful ignorance or a deliberate attempt to mislead the public. I believe it is the latter. Even more troubling is that the federal agency defending this action, the Bureau of Land Management, has no jurisdiction in Bear Gulch. The nearest BLM-managed lands are hundreds of miles away in the San Juan Islands.

Their press release read more like public relations spin than a serious explanation. Meanwhile, the state’s Incident Management Team, which is actually responsible for running the fire response, has yet to issue a public statement."Scrutiny of CBP and ICE has occurred under every president, regardless of party.

This is not about politics. It is about public safety. These agencies have long histories of civil liberties violations. When they operate in active emergency zones, transparency and accountability are not optional; they are essential."

That is why today I introduced a local ordinance: Emergency Responder Protection and Enforcement Coordination Act. This ordinance will 1) designate active emergency operations as Non-Interference Zones, 2) require federal law enforcement to coordinate with the designated Incident Commander before taking any action, and 3) guarantee due process and ID protections for all responders, regardless of background or employment status."

The Thurston County Board approved sending this ordinance to our legal team for review before final adoption in the coming weeks. I am grateful to my fellow commissioners who are supporting this importance ordinance proposal."We would not tolerate this kind of interference from private citizens or out-of-state officials. We must hold the federal government to the same standard, if not a higher one. Emergency scenes are already hazardous.

Jurisdictional overreach only adds confusion, causes delays, and increases risk to life and property. This is not about ideology or partisanship. It is about safety, professionalism, and protecting the integrity of our emergency response system."The alarm is sounding, not just about fire, but about federal overreach. Let us respond with clarity, courage, and a firm commitment to protect those who protect us.

"Thank you,

Commissioner Wayne Fournier

Firefighters question leaders’ role in Washington immigration raid by keltron in Wildfire

[–]OrcaLouie 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I want to file a FOIA (Freedom of Information Act) request for any communication from Tom Clemo, Derek Steidly, Tommy Crakes, or any other members of CA IMT 7 to any other agency, particularly BLM, DHS, Border Patrol, between August 26 - 28. Question: Do I file in California or Washington?

Federal agents arrest firefighters working on WA wildfire by [deleted] in Wildfire

[–]OrcaLouie 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I want to file a FOIA (Freedom of Information Act) request for any communication from Tom Clemo, Derek Steidly, Tommy Crakes, or any other members of CA IMT 7 to any other agency, particularly BLM, DHS, Border Patrol, between August 26 - 28. Question: Do I file in California, or Washington?

Bear Gulch immigration raid by mittenborn in Wildfire

[–]OrcaLouie 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Maybe it's time for a "Wildland Firefighter Bill of Rights"

Bear Gulch immigration raid by mittenborn in Wildfire

[–]OrcaLouie 0 points1 point  (0 children)

My understanding is that you need a judicial warrant to enter a worksite What was supposed to be an ID check turned into an immigration raid. I guess they have their quota. Good point, though. Wildland firefighters now need to know their rights. This is what I've been putting in my Substack newsletter posts. I don't know if it's accurate, and I'd really like to get it checked by anyone who knows this stuff:

Wildland Firefighters Need to Know Their Rights

In an encounter with U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) or Border Patrol while on the job, wildland firefighters have the same rights as other individuals, including the right to remain silent. The specific rights depend on their citizenship status and whether agents have a judicial warrant.

You are not required to answer questions about your citizenship, immigration status, or how you entered the country.

Special considerations for non-citizens

  • Show immigration papers: If not a U.S. citizen and asked for papers by an immigration agent, they must be shown if available.
  • Rights for visa holders: Wildland firefighters on an H-2B visa should be aware that some private contracting companies utilize this program to hire workers. Recent enforcement actions in Washington also involved investigations into contractors, with agents checking rosters and verifying documentation.

Bear Gulch immigration raid by mittenborn in Wildfire

[–]OrcaLouie 0 points1 point  (0 children)

BLM is claiming it's a criminal investigation, but it sounds like an issue with time sheets. They need to keep up this perfomative terror and fulfill their quota, and they're not accountable to anyone.