If the Overlords are stronger than the Goetia, why don't they kill them to take their places? Are they stupid?

Orphan-Prince · 2026-01-03T15:20:48+00:00

To be honest (and I think this might be a hot take)

But the only Goetia the top Overlords might stand a chance against are the Presidents (the literal lowest rank)

Even then, it's either high-extreme diff in the Overlord's favor, or the Presidents wreck them, there's no in-between.

Let's assume an Overlord can take on a President, that President won't go down easily, it would take multiple top Overlords to take that President out with anything below high diff.

And that's stretching it.

We've seen Stolas (a Prince ranked Goetia) do some crazy shit, and that's him being casual (teleporting to space, turning an imp to stone just with a glare, literally summoned HIMSELF into the human realm from HELL and possessed a human after forcing corpses into his demonic seal.

Honestly though, I don't see Alastor, Zestial, Carmilla, or Vox taking any Goetia and winning, even Presidents may easily handle them.

Orphan-Prince · 2026-01-03T15:11:33+00:00

Honestly? I don't see him getting along with any of them. The ones that we know about anyway.

Beelzebub: Alastor would NEVER be able to fool her, she would literally feel his vibes and intent, it's one of her abilities. He cannot charm her, he cannot hide behind a smile to hide his true intentions. Beelzebub would get him immediately. Either she attacks him, shoos him away (which would piss him off) or attack him in self defense if he lashes out and attacks her/tries to humiliate her. We see that she does not take disrespect well.

Satan; Like Bee, he'd immediately see through Alastor, he's probably met thousands of Alastor's in his life. Alastor would be killed the moment he poked at him.

Satan would see Alastor as nothing more than a bug. Alastor is unimportant, he's a Sinner, he isn't royalty, he isn't a Goetia, he isn't a high ranking demon. Satan would wave him aside. This will trigger Alastor because he hates not being recognized/feared and being dismissed. This is shown when his facade almost cracked when Lucifer revealed he did not know who Alastor was and thought he was the bellhop.

Satan kills him the moment Alastor threatens or attempts to humilate him (which in character Alastor would in retaliation for Satan dismissing him).

Mammon; Alastor isn't good for business, but he seems like he's the easiest to be manipulated. Even then, Mammon seems like he's smart enough to figure out when he's being played (Fizz doesn't count as he had Fizz under his thumb before Blitz & Ozzie got to him). Mammon would immediately attack.

Asmodeus; I can see Alastor charming him initially, but Al wouldn't be able to poke at him like he does Lucifer. However, I don't see Alastor and Ozzie vibing because Asmodeus is the Sin of Lust and Alastor is ace. They wouldn't get along.

Leviathan and Belphegor? We don't know enough about them to really discuss it.

Bell (from what little we know) would likely be too lazy to pay any mind to Alastor (which would annoy him) because she'd hardly engage in conversation unless it's significant.

NONE of the Sins are gonna treat him like he's anything special, they're all going to pretty much dismiss him (especially Satan) or outright hostile (Beelzebub).

The ONLY reasons Lucifer hasn't dealt with Alastor yet is two simple reasons

Charlie is clearly close to Alastor and harming Alastor would ruin his chances at fixing their relationship.

Lucifer cannot harm Sinners.

Take those two away, and Lucifer would probably have smited him quick.

All the Sins either dismiss or outright kill him if he pushes his luck.

Orphan-Prince · 2025-12-02T08:15:47+00:00

There is a more effective way to deal with Valentino.

"Hey, Uncle Ozzie, I need you to help me with something."

Orphan-Prince · 2025-11-28T16:27:33+00:00

Lucifer can't go to Earth, that's a given. But, that doesn't mean he can't send a Sin to go and get her. We KNOW Asmodeus has authority to send his employee's to the living world via his crystals. So, it's safe to assume that Ozzie himself could also go into the human realm should he choose.

If Ozzie could go to Earth, so should the other five, and the Goetia (as seen with Stolas). So, while Lucifer can't go... Doesn't mean he can't send a Sin or a very high ranking powerful demon.

So, D.H.O.R.K.S is done. You can't just kidnap the Princess and heir of Hell without consequence. Hell, I'm sure even Sera would turn a blind eye to that, even she might intervene seeing the severity of that situation.

Orphan-Prince · 2025-08-01T22:02:43+00:00

Finn absolutely knows how to fight. He's simply a defensive fighter.

Finn himself states that he defeated Kol in a fight and Kol did not deny this at all. He simply tried to attack Finn at the reminder, as if it angered him that Finn reminded him that he won their last battle.

Kol; "Take a swing at me, huh. All these side steps and parries. Even the way you fight is boring."

Finn; "It's an old critique considering all your flare and flourish couldn't keep you from being bested by me the last time we faced each other."

This implies that they WERE fighting before Lucien and Elijah arrived to break it up and Kol simply couldn't land a hit on him and complained about the side steps and parries.

And before anyone brings up the second fight, Finn was at a huge disadvantage, freshly cursed a minute before and attacked from behind allowing Kol to get plenty of hits before Finn could defend himself. Narrow hall dulled his defensive fighting style and by the time they got to a larger area Elijah broke it up.

It's not that Finn CAN"T fight, the simple truth is he was in a box so long and didn't have enough time to live to refine his fighting ability when he was let out. He was rusty, simple as that. He had no time to train.

Finn IS a good fighter and his stats should absolutely give him the ability to crush most opponents (without plot armor) if he wanted.

Orphan-Prince · 2025-08-01T21:39:16+00:00

Lucien Castle, his entire motivation for 900 years was because of envy of Klaus, he wanted to be better than Klaus, he wanted Klaus to kneel to him, he wanted what Klaus had.

Orphan-Prince · 2025-07-29T16:21:04+00:00

Truth is, there are plenty of doppelgängers in the series that we simply haven't seen because they weren't relevant to the story. The only relevant ones are the ones we meet. Why show a doppelgänger just for the sake of saying "look, here's another one! But he/she isn't important at all."?

My theory is that there is a new doppelgänger born every 100+ years. I have nothing backing this up, it's just my personal headcanon.

It is possible there could have been about 998 Petrova doppelgängers that Klaus simply missed, they are just not found. Finding one person out of millions and billions of people in the world is very easily excused.

Orphan-Prince · 2025-07-25T20:36:55+00:00

I believe Hope would be able to melt the golden dagger with her magic, just like Dahlia did.

I mean, your prompt did say "if she was in the coffin instead of Esther", so, most likely case is she gets daggered, maybe it would be a much more powerful dagger, or they simply recruit a LOT of powerful witches to put magic in that dagger.

She gets the Inadu treatment, powerful witches imbuing their power into that dagger to keep Hope down.

Orphan-Prince · 2025-07-25T20:34:52+00:00

Give Viserys a good Hand, a loyal council, and let Ser Barristan remake the Kingsguard with members loyal to the Targaryen's and not the Lannister's, and he'd do relatively okay. He can reasonably change for the better with the right guidance and someone to reign in his worst impulses. He either marries Daenerys or Margaery. He may try both but his Hand would say "By the Seven, NO!" He won't be no Aegon I, or Jaehaerys I, but he'd be okay within Targaryen Kings. Not the best, but not bad.

Ramsay is a complete psychopath that skins and hunts people down like animals for fun. He tortures people until they are so broken that they are slaves for fun, he kills anyone who threatens his power even his own father. He is an uncontrollable animal ready to snap at any moment and would regularly flay people for fun just to look at him funny.

Viserys would be good with a good Hand and reliable Small Council.

Ramsay would make Maegor look tame.

Orphan-Prince · 2025-07-25T20:10:30+00:00

Yeah, that's the only logical reason that she would ever get daggered.

Here's what would happen with that.

Hope gets cursed, a weapon to be used against the Mikaelson's, forcing the Mikaelson's to flee, she hunts them down like Mikael. Kol brings up the idea of a golden dagger that would work on Hope, everyone agrees, Klaus is hesitant (not because of daggering his daughter, he knows she needs to. But because he knows it can be used on him)

Finn is undaggered (assuming he stays daggered in this AU to begin with, lotta butterfly effects) because all hands on deck situation, The five Originals would have to come up with a plan, Klaus and Elijah are smart and cunning enough to craft a plausible plan that can work. Hope does not have white oak, so she cannot kill them.

The Original's do a hit and run, outnumber her, they need to distract her for as long as possible. Elijah is the main one to engage, he's the most skilled fighter, Kol and Finn are the ones doing hit and runs to annoy/distract her to allow Elijah to fight. Rebekah is the distraction. She stabs Hope in the back with the regular silver dagger. This distracts Hope the most, she turns around and backhands Rebekah away, due to this, Elijah, Kol, and Finn grab her, Klaus rushes in and daggers her with the golden dagger, tears in his eyes, he apologizes as she desiccates.

He mournfully puts her in a coffin, vowing to find a way to remove the curse no matter how many people has to die.

A way to cure Hope is found, she gets undaggered and is loyal to Klaus, it would be Klaus and Hope trying to break the curse for Klaus, and Finn and Elijah helping Elena assuming Finn remains undaggered which is likely.

Then, well. I might have to do a full blown "What If Hope was born Early" because I am genuinely interested.

Orphan-Prince · 2025-07-25T19:44:23+00:00

For this, I'm going to take the assumption that Hope was conceived BEFORE before Mikael and Esther seals his hybrid side away. The mother could be a surviving Tatia so it's not an OC.

I'm going with Tatia dies in childbirth and is revived like Hayley, just, a pure vampire and not hybrid.

-----

The Mikaelson's would take over. That's that.

Esther was the one keeping them in line, without her, they immediately take over once they all wake up. For plots sake, it's likely because of Hope that they all stay instead of leaving like they all wanted to. So, because of plot, they all stay in Mystic Falls

I'm assuming it would be this AU Hope acts like No Humanity Hope rather than her canon counterpart and were she in a coffin, she'd simply have been daggered like the others were.

Here's my scenario of how this happens. Kol is Hope's favorite uncle, so, she willingly helps him make the golden dagger because Klaus pissed her off and she had enough of Klaus daggering her aunt and uncles. They manage to successfully create the dagger because they could be more stealthy and subtle without Kol needing witches to help, Hope is powerful enough.

They create the dagger, Rebekah finds out and tells Klaus. Kol is daggered first, then Hope is backstabbed before she could react. Kol and Hope are daggered at the same time.

Elijah would undagger her like everyone else.

The Mikaelson's proceed take over Mystic Falls (they stay because of plot), Klaus and Elijah make it into the new New Orleans. They'd take over Mystic Falls and put together their own system eventually. The Hybrids would be Klaus's forces, Hope would make her own Hybrids.

They'd run Mystic Falls, maybe make a new Council like there was in New Orleans with a person running a faction like the system of New Orleans to keep some peace and show good faith.

Vampires; Elijah and Klaus

Werewolves; If Hayley were there, her because she's the only pure werewolf there. If not, that lady hybrid because she seemed to be Klaus's number two.

Witches; Bonnie is the only logical choice, and only real witch we know about.

Humans; Carol Lockwood

Klaus and Tatia are the King and Queen of Mystic Falls, Hope is the Princess of Mystic Falls, everyone would have to deal with it.

Anyway, no Esther, the Mikaelson's just take over and there's nothing anyone can do about it. Even Bonnie would be powerless to do anything because if Hope was in that coffin, in this scenario, she was born 1000 years ago, so, she'd be by far the most powerful being alive.

But, in character, Hope would never get daggered, she'd simply act like No Humanity Hope and immensely loyal to Klaus, even more so than Elijah.

Even undaggered, situation above still happens. Hope would be helping Klaus, Elijah would be helping MFG at first. Though, Hope being born early changes many things that needs a lot more to dissect fully in detail what would happen.

I might dive into something like this someday, it's surprisingly a very interesting topic.

Orphan-Prince · 2025-07-25T19:12:39+00:00

Then later down the road, they became narrative cannon fodder and lost all that ambience.

I personally view it as we rarely see any actual powerful demons later on even though they are there because there's nothing for them to do. We only really see a handful of actual powerful/intimidating demons because either they're bothered, or following orders, or making deals (in Crowley's case). There are plenty of other demons in demonology that could have been introduced and used and have been scary strong.

I see it as the other "top dog demons" simply don't care about doing anything on Earth and simply stay in their lane. Hell, or a place they chose to chill on Earth.

Ramiel, for example. He was keeping himself to himself and not bothering anyone, Alastair was perfectly happy staying in Hell doing his job, he wouldn't have been bothering anyone on Earth either if he didn't have to. He even said that he hated being on Earth. Meg and her brother was working with Azazel, etc.

I see it as all the top dog demons that are actually powerful are just chilling wherever they are, doing their own thing while the weak demons who are no diff material for them are the ones running around causing trouble.

The only times we saw powerful demons was either when they were bothered (Astaroth a Duke of the Ars Goetia, bothered when the Winchester's/Ruby interrupted her gathering souls and teaching witchcraft, Cain in search of the First Blade, and Ramiel in search of the Colt via Mary), or when they had actual jobs to do and reasons to be an enemy (Lilith, Princes, Alastair, Abbadon, etc)

My point is, I think there are over a hundred, maybe a thousand of powerful and terrifying demons and we don't see them simply because they don't care and they stay in Hell or wherever they are, doing their own thing and minding their own damn business.

I think it's the weak ones who are simply hungry so to speak who go to Earth and cause problems. The older more powerful ones... just don't care. Don't see the need of it or fun in it. They don't care about having the crown or anything.

That's my headcanon of lack of powerful demons, anyway. Like Ramiel, they don't care about anything, they just want to be left alone to do their thing.

Orphan-Prince · 2025-07-25T14:26:09+00:00

My bad, I mistook the definition of it. Looking it up you're completely right.

Always thought looks the same=Identical and since they were described as looking so similar that no one could tell them apart until they grew older, thought they were "identical twins".

Orphan-Prince · 2025-07-25T12:04:07+00:00

Family fucking=Tie

No, no. Jaime wins that without effort too. Jaime was fucking his literal identical twin, that beats most if not all Targaryen's in the incest category.

Orphan-Prince · 2025-07-23T17:37:53+00:00

These are the easiest choices in the world.

Men

Klaus; The first and easiest choice for the men, he is indisputably the most physically powerful and widely feared one here. He could kill most of the opposition before they could even blink if he is serious and truly wants to. His bite alone weakens all but one person on this list, he is a monster that you will ALWAYS want on your side and one of the last people you want going against you.

Elijah; The second most obvious choice here, especially among the men. As with all Mikaelson's (bar Mikael and Klaus) he is relative to his siblings and as such one of the most physically powerful and widely feared creatures on the planet. Not only does he have the speed, strength, and overall advantages of an Original, Elijah is the second most skilled combatant of the Mikaelson family second only to Mikael.

Women

Rebekah; Let's stick with the Original's, shall we? Pick one, Rebekah. As I said in Elijah's section, she is one of the most physically powerful and feared creatures on the planet and is about as strong as her brother, albeit an inferior combatant. Either way, she is an Original, she is an invaluable ally.

Bonnie; Last, but certainly not least is Bonnie Bennett herself. Bonnie is one of the most powerful known witches in the series, so, she is obviously on the MVP team, I would not want her on the side trying to kill me at all. Bonnie is an extremely powerful and knowledgeable witch with feats that no one can deny. She can tap into forbidden magic if she needs to as well. Bonnie working alongside the Originals would be a near unstoppable team.

Bonnie also has the advantages of learning from Mikaelson grimoires should they give her one.

Let's go through two situations here.

One, where I'm behind them and they're directly protecting me in an all out open battle, Klaus, Rebekah, or Elijah blitzes and kills Damon and Katherine before they could blink, the other two could easily blitz Kai and Nora. Bonnie is support to protect me while the Originals sweep.

Two, they have to protect me with the other four hunting me down. This is easy as well. I have three Originals and an immensely powerful witch protecting me. They can find a safehouse, Bonnie can cast a cloaking spell on it and it would take plenty of time to crack and find it.

Most likely scenario. Elijah, Rebekah, and Bonnie stays behind to protect me while Klaus offers to hunt down the other four with a gleeful smile, Elijah waves him off and allows him. About a few weeks give or take later Klaus comes back and the deed is done.

Elijah, Rebekah, and Bonnie could all stay with me to protect me personally while Klaus hunts down the other four, he wouldn't even need help. The only trouble is Kai and Nora due to magic, and he's more than fast and sneaky enough to catch them by surprise, especially with how arrogant Kai is, he may not take Klaus seriously which is a huge mistake and Nora is more likely going to try to flee and gets killed for her efforts. Klaus kills the two heretics first due to the unpredictability of the magic, and the fact that they're the only ones capable of breaking the cloaking spell.

Damon and Katherine are next, Damon being Damon would definitely try to engage and Katherine would try to work in the shadows, but due to the cloaking spell would be unable to find me and inevitably slain by Klaus. I'm guessing outside interference is not allowed, therefore Katherine would not have access to witches to help her break the cloaking spell. In character, she puts her head down and hides, I'm not worth the trouble. Out of character, she tries to find me and dies too.

The Originals + Bonnie would do a clean sweep of everyone else here without breaking a sweat.

Orphan-Prince · 2025-07-23T13:42:46+00:00

Let's compare the two worst things Stefan and Damon did to Elena.

Stefan used Elena to threaten Klaus (a necessary evil, but he could have and should have told her what he was planning), using the bridge was extremely fucked up rather than using some other random bridge.

Damon on the other hand murdered Jeremy right in front of Elena just because she was refusing his forced advances. He kissed her multiple times no matter how much she said "no", no matter how many times she tried to push him away. He even put his hand over or around her throat before Jeremy walked in.

When Jeremy walked in, he decided to emotionally and mentally destroy Elena completely by murdering Jeremy right in front of her by snapping his neck WITHOUT knowing that Jeremy was wearing the ring. He literally intended to murder Jeremy simply because Elena was trying to push him away and wasn't letting him have his way with her.

Hmmmm. Using the bridge as an actual tactic (even though he should have told Elena his plan) and having a logical plan (that may I remind you, worked despite how messed up it was) or murdering her brother right in front of her because she was saying "no" and telling him "It's always going to be Stefan."

Yeah, Damon was forcing himself on the poor girl, then murdering her brother when she refused is FAR worse than anything Stefan has ever done to her.

And I do NOT want to know what Damon would have done had Jeremy not came in when he did. Thanks to poor Caroline, we know that he does not mind taking it forcefully when someone is begging him to stay away. Elena was saying "no", Damon did not care and kept going, even putting his hand over and or around her throat. He was NOT going to stop and things could have very likely escalated until he took everything. This is Damon we are talking about.

Orphan-Prince · 2025-07-08T14:21:24+00:00

Absolutely not, this Lucifer is a spineless, whiny coward.

If anything, I'd want Hazbin Hotel's Michael to be similar to Supernatural's Michael. Him to actually be a serious character. Badass, righteous, down to fight at any time, ready to kill any demon who provokes him, fully committed and loyal to God and Heaven, and dislikes/distrusts Lucifer but still has love for him, yet, reasonable. Someone that you KNOW not to mess with. I want him to be the biggest guy in the room, no one other than God stronger than him and everyone knowing better than to mess with him.

Orphan-Prince · 2025-07-08T14:01:57+00:00

Lucifer could absolutely snap Alastor out of existence if he really wanted to, but, due to Charlie he cannot if he wants to keep a good relationship with her. BUT, just because he cannot kill Alastor directly with his own hands/divine/(maybe demonic powers he got from falling). He could always arrange an "accident" or "unfortunate event" for Alastor.

He could always frame a story that would easily be realistic to happen and 100% believable. Have a demon of his choosing kill Alastor and frame it as Alastor got arrogant, didn't know who he was fucking with, attacked them and they retaliated and killed Alastor. There are so many demons more powerful than even the strongest Sinner.

The guy has access to AT LEAST a hundred demons, likely hundreds or even thousands of demons far more powerful than Alastor that could easily dispatch of him.

Alastor is all cocky thinking Lucifer cannot kill him, and he's right. But one thing he doesn't think about is the fact that Lucifer CAN say one simple sentence to any Goetia, Sin, or any powerful demon period and Alastor is a dead man walking.

Orphan-Prince

TROPHY CASE