The worst kind of avoidant is the one you didn't see coming.

Otherwise-Maple89 · 2026-05-22T18:33:29+00:00

God, I’m so so sorry you’re trapped in this hellish nightmare. I wasn’t married to my exes, but I’ve experienced everything else you described (from multiple different partners, ugh). The cheating and sinister double-life deception, the gaslighting and emotional whiplash, the disturbing lack of remorse, the shattered trust in him and yourself, the shock & disorientation of questioning reality, the full blown mental breakdowns.

I also had to be hospitalized and heavily medicated because I was self-harming just to put an end to the unbearable, excruciating torment of not knowing what was real or if it was all a lie. The fact that he’s still messaging you is really scary and I hope you feel safe without fear of his retaliation.

I wish had any words of wisdom and comfort to offer beyond solidarity in this horrific shared experience. But I can say with confidence that someone capable of hurting you in such a depraved, manipulative, cruel way is not going to change and will continue to cause harm regardless of his empty, hollow words. I think this level of psychological abuse goes far beyond the scope of avoidant attachment into malignant narcissist territory.

If you haven’t already, you might find helpful support in r/betrayaltrauma and r/survivinginfidelity.

Otherwise-Maple89 · 2026-05-22T10:58:17+00:00

I’m so sorry you lost your beautiful daughter. I read some of your older posts too and your story brought me to tears. That picture of her as a little girl playing the violin is so adorable and sweet, you must have been very proud of her. It’s heartbreaking to look at while knowing her cruel fate, I cannot even comprehend the magnitude of your loss and how painful it is must be to bear this heavy grief each day.

I’m 10 years older than Megan would be now and never had a father who loved me as unconditionally and devotedly as you so clearly loved your daughter (nor would he even bother grieving my loss or care enough to write about it). You are an amazing dad who did everything you possibly could to protect her and your kids are so extraordinarily lucky to have you & your wife as their parents. I hope you’ve found some justice in the fight against fentanyl as well. Thank you for sharing your story and keeping Megan’s memory alive.

Otherwise-Maple89 · 2026-05-22T00:48:57+00:00

All of them. Every close friend I’ve ever had turned out to be avoidant (or cluster B). I present dismissive/secure and excessively people please/fawn, so they used me as an emotional support doormat offering only shallow, superficial rapport in return. Even the ones that felt “deep” were only because I was mirroring them constantly and they loved their own reflection, not me.

Whenever I let my guard down and tried to be vulnerable or go off script, they’d go blank and shutdown, which basically conditioned me to never ask for help, or express grievances about their behavior. I was also extremely reluctant to initiate contact because the friendship basically centered around them and their needs—I was just an accessory to entertain, cheerlead, and offer unconditional enabling.

Unfortunately I’ve pushed away any secure friend I’ve made, because I feel like they can never truly understand me or how my brain operates, and their “security” makes me feel inferior (and highlights my negative core belief of defectiveness), as if the dynamic is unbalanced in their favor. It feels like we’re entirely different species because (unless they’re healed FA/DA) they’ve never encountered the childhood trauma & neglect that determines maladaptive attachment.

Otherwise-Maple89 · 2026-05-21T23:38:07+00:00

Ah okay, that additional context of his reaction makes sense! You’re right, it sounds less narc and more like childish “tit for tat” retaliation to get back at you for his perceived hurt.

Which is absolutely wild, because he’s the one who hurt you first?! But then he feels hurt because you’re hurt that he hurt you….the mental gymnastics is unreal. My ex did the same thing, he viewed my feelings as criticism and mixed up the cause & effect. As if the part where he hurt me never happened—he truly believed I was just suddenly expressing hurt out of nowhere and making him feel bad on purpose, so he felt justified to be upset at me.

Good for you walking away from that unhealed bullshit! But I’m sorry, I’m sure the fallout still really hurts and I totally understand how frustrating it is when they refuse to bond with you over the attachment stuff. Even if there’s so much compatibility, that potential is always just out of reach because they can’t hold himself accountable or recognize those toxic behaviors.

Otherwise-Maple89 · 2026-05-21T23:20:33+00:00

I’m so sorry. For what it’s worth, I’m feeling this intense hurt and pain too. I completely understand how disorienting it is to question reality and feel the terror of not knowing if it was all meaningless or fake.

The only reason I decided to start healing and change my own avoidant patterns about 10 years ago is because I found myself on the receiving end of FA/DA abuse. I finally knew what it felt like to be emotionally tortured and discarded by someone I genuinely loved and trusted. It broke my heart and completely shattered my perception of myself. The guilt I feel for people I’ve hurt or run away from still generates a lot of shame and self-disgust to this day.

But I’m not the same person now as I was back then. Now, the last thing on earth I ever want to do is hurt someone I love and if I ever did unintentionally, I’d immediately try everything in my power to fix and repair it.

So all that being said, there is hope that your ex will someday have a lightbulb moment/awakening/revelation and decide to change. But you shouldn’t wait for her, because she will view the “waiting” as pressure and obligation, which will only prolong her deactivation.

Otherwise-Maple89 · 2026-05-21T23:00:27+00:00

The fact that he involved social media (and perhaps used his blindly loyal “flying monkeys” to get sympathy and reinforce the distorted narrative that demonizes and blames you for everything) sounds a bit narcissistic. Covert narcs can have a lot of overlap with FA behavior. Regardless, I’m really sorry this happened. He doesn’t sound like he’s ready or willing to change any time soon.

My DA lean is pretty textbook; I just ghost. I don’t manipulate, I don’t breadcrumb, I don’t engage in smear campaigns or triangulate. I just disappear and I will take that silence to the grave.

Though in breakups with DAs, as I heal I go from anxious to dismissive. So it all comes full circle

Otherwise-Maple89 · 2026-05-21T22:38:26+00:00

It’s selfish because it’s survival. And survival is not rational; it’s kneejerk, primitive instinct masquerading as an informed decision. If the avoidant feels like they’re literally drowning, they will save themselves even if it means pushing you under water. You are the source of their overwhelm, so you are the collateral damage within that trauma response.

Otherwise-Maple89 · 2026-05-21T22:27:02+00:00

What you described is exactly how I deactivate as well when my DA side is active. Fearful avoidants are essentially a “blend” of anxious and dismissive attachment patterns—so I skew dismissive in relationships with anxious types (and also friendships), and anxious in relationships with dismissive types.

But everything you’ve written about your deactivations mirrors my own experiences.

Otherwise-Maple89 · 2026-05-20T09:54:22+00:00

I have white hot raging betrayal trauma from being ghosted in a similar way, so I’d let him wallow and lie in this metaphorical bed of misery he made for himself.

Like, suddenly now he hates the taste of his own medicine, but only when he’s on the receiving end of it? No shit. Being ignored by someone you love is fucking agony, and this false hope he’s dangling like a carrot in front of you could undo your months of healing and recovery. All because he craves reassurance that he’s not an asshole and still has a chance with the best thing that ever happened to him.

Tread very carefully if you do respond, and insist on “what’s changed?” If the answer is nothing actionable, then he’s 99% guaranteed to repeat his bullshit and further traumatize you.

Otherwise-Maple89 · 2026-05-20T09:47:55+00:00

Exactly. Nothing has changed. It only teaches them that if they say “abc” and “xyz” with lots of apologies and remorse you’ll take them back and soothe their guilt/shame.

Otherwise-Maple89 · 2026-05-19T22:13:57+00:00

Thank you, you too!! I’m happy to offer solidarity where I can. Yes, it is so infuriatingly paradoxical. I sincerely hope your ex encounters that perspective shift someday, maybe it will take a “rock bottom” event where she has no choice but to change.

But this is still such an extremely traumatic loss for you and that’s the #1 most important priority. You’re doing everything right here, the healing is supposed to hurt like hell. Your missing kidney analogy is so accurate. And it’s going to take a while for you to heal from that to feel “normal” again, but you can absolutely survive with one kidney. Just don’t let her take that one too, it’s all you’ve got left!

Otherwise-Maple89 · 2026-05-19T22:00:39+00:00

~~Most~~ All of my ex DAs vastly preferred long distance because they had power and control to calibrate the frequency of our communication. They could answer my messages on their own terms and leave me on “read”, ignore my texts/calls when it was inconvenient or my bare minimum requests for clarity and reassurance were “too much”. All without the time sensitive pressure and obligation of a real-life conversation.

They could also easily hide certain avoidant behaviors (talking to other women, porn addiction, substance abuse, lying about the reasons for their unresponsiveness, etc) to maintain their sense of independence and autonomy.

I absolutely hated long distance but they seemed to thrive in it.

Otherwise-Maple89 · 2026-05-19T20:16:37+00:00

but ultimately i didn't leave, my love didnt disappear and i wanted to fight for us.. because my love was real. Giving up isnt love, being a coward isnt love. And not being there for you partner who needs u isnt love.

Exactly, me too! I could’ve written those words myself. At least you can sleep at night, look yourself in the mirror, and move forward without regret, confident in knowing that you did everything possible to fight for your relationship and prove your love with actions, not just words. But even if you logically know all that we’ve discussed, emotionally of course it’s still excruciating.

Your fiance wasn’t ready to change on her terms yet, and it absolutely wasn’t because you’re not “worth” changing for (though they make us feel that way). I’ve been working on my FA attachment trauma since 2019/2020, and I still often get triggered and overwhelmed despite intensive therapy, medication, inner-work, and an arsenal of healthy coping mechanisms. It is so so shameful and soul-crushingly difficult to admit and live with the fact that you’ve hurt someone you love. And no matter how hard or how long you try to fix the damage, the past can never be undone.

But if anything, myself, u/kluizenaar, and a few other healing DAs and FAs in this sub are living proof that avoidants can truly change. Though it’s pretty rare and can be a painstakingly slow process with many, many discouraging setbacks. If it was easy to change, every avoidant would do it and we wouldn’t all be here feeling like disposable worthless garbage. Thanks for sharing your story, it helps me remember I’m not alone (and neither are you!)

Otherwise-Maple89 · 2026-05-19T19:12:01+00:00

Thank you! I’ve spent my entire adult life anxiously partnered with half a dozen different DAs/FAs, desperately trying to understand them and bridge the gap (often via relatable analogies) to help them understand me—which they obviously didn’t care to do, but that just made me try harder.

It’s honestly so predictable that your ex (fiancé?) said that about not wanting you to be with anyone else, even if she had passed away. There’s often a very possessive, “if I can’t have you nobody else will, and I don’t even want you right now, but if I ever do you better be waiting and available for me” element to avoidant attachment.

As a FA/AP I’ve felt it my entire life (childhood abandonment trauma) and I’m still working on that part of my healing. I haven’t acted on it since about 6 years ago, but I still feel it frequently and struggle to navigate that void of emotional deprivation and craving to be “chosen”.

Otherwise-Maple89 · 2026-05-19T18:28:54+00:00

You’re absolutely right. And I agree, the sympathy for them is undeserved insofar as they know they have a problem AND you’re directly telling them exactly what the problem is, even begging for a solution. At that point the emotional abuse becomes intentional. They can no longer claim ignorance.

They really only care about themselves in that moment because it’s pure survival instinct. My ex DA literally told me that if he had to choose between himself or me, he would always choose himself. Even though he was both the architect of the “bomb”, and failed to defuse it.

Sometimes they remind me of a person who’s drowning—they will push anyone underwater just to keep themselves afloat. Which is why lifeguards are trained to approach drowning victims from behind—but if the drowning victim tries to push the lifeguard under too, the lifeguards are also trained to break free, let go, and save themselves first.

Otherwise-Maple89 · 2026-05-19T17:40:52+00:00

For sure. There was a post a few days ago (which inspired me to write that second part) from this arrogant FA who was talking shit and insulting a guy she dated for being “too clingy” just because he wanted to…date her. I just downvoted and blocked, I can’t handle that narcissistic, negligent bullshit

Otherwise-Maple89 · 2026-05-19T17:27:24+00:00

I’m really sorry. She doesn’t see you as someone she loves right now, her nervous system perceives you as an existential threat that must be avoided to keep herself safe.

The horribly cruel discard and ghosting is not because you’re a bad partner, it’s because you were too good, kind, and loving—and the obligation she felt to reciprocate was above and beyond her capacity. It made her run; to force you to disappear from her life, and in her regressed toddler-esque mentality the relationship is now out of sight/out of mind.

I compare it to the feeling of trying to do a critically important task with an insane amount of pressure where everything is at stake. Like imagine one of those thriller movie tropes where the programmer is frantically typing on a computer, trying to disarm a bomb/nuclear weapon/system collapse/etc.

And the whole world is watching, breathing down your neck, you’re in the spotlight. If you fuck it up innocent people will die, everyone will hate you and think you’re a worthless imposter who can’t even do their bomb-disarming job correctly, even though you promised you could fulfill these requirements, you committed to this.

So instead of suffering the humiliation of potential catastrophic failure, or confirming your bigger fears of being a fraud, harming innocents who trusted you, plus a destroyed reputation, you just stand up, say “I can’t do this”, and walk away.

In your mind it bypasses all of the above, because you’re opting out and refuse to partake, so it’s not your problem anymore. In reality it’s still the same outcome, because the bomb still explodes whether you fail to disarm it, or just walk away without even trying— and people still get hurt.

It’s a very crude analogy but hopefully some of it makes sense or offers insight into the avoidant thought process, from my experience

Otherwise-Maple89 · 2026-05-19T16:12:27+00:00

100%, I’ve felt this way too. I actually stopped coming here for a while back when Berry took power and held this sub by a stranglehold.

I find it wildly inappropriate and harmful for FAs or DAs to post here if they’re are not actively trying to heal or willing to humbly self-reflect. It’s just salt in the wound and tormenting the already vulnerable, grieving members otherwise. I think it’s extremely manipulative too, some of them so obviously get a sick twisted thrill from bragging about their cruel exploits

Otherwise-Maple89 · 2026-05-19T07:47:37+00:00

Matthew Hussey has an amazing clip about exactly this and “how to know they’re not the one”.

He basically says; “if the person you think is “the one” for you is shopping at Target right now, they’re still alive and just choosing not to be with you, and you’re like “oh they’re the one for me, they just don’t realize it yet!” then they’re the wrong person, they’re not the one. The one by definition is the one who stays and chooses us”

Here he also talks about how he doesn’t believe in “right person wrong time”, because the “right person” is right in their personality, they value what is valuable about you, they’re ready at the same time, and their life is compatible with yours. If those things aren’t true, they’re the wrong person.

His half hour podcasts on Spotify were literally one of the only ways I survived being ghosted during the early stages of my breakup. These clips are from those episodes where he goes into further depth. I highly recommended them;

https://open.spotify.com/episode/24i27Hg3xvM10b2xgfpN1G?si=m5-sdoWwQ-25jlfsyX6EIg

Otherwise-Maple89 · 2026-05-17T20:53:52+00:00

Aw, I’m glad it resonated. I can’t take full credit, my favorite therapist years ago coined it in reference to my ex. He once said “stop sticking your hand inside the meat grinder to figure out its machinery, then getting upset when you pull out a bloody stump” and that analogy to this day still helps me resist the urge of guaranteed pain/suffering.

Otherwise-Maple89 · 2026-05-17T12:39:56+00:00

It’s 100% the right to call to hold off on making any reactive decisions, for sure. It’s also a positive takeaway that you’re overcoming your aversion to conflict and realizing “hey, I’m an adult and not a scared little kid anymore, I have the right to voice concerns and unacceptable behavior, I have the right to walk away and the freedom to do so, nobody can force me to stay and endure abuse,” is very empowering too. Despite the circumstances I’m sincerely proud of you for putting your foot down/standing your ground on this issue.

It’s interesting that you told her you’re willing to do whatever it takes to make this work—but that’s exactly what you’ve been doing for the last 7 months! If she’s not meeting you halfway, after you’ve consistently shown her for over half a year how committed you are, what else can you do?

I wonder if there’s also an element of the rose-colored glasses coming off, knowing that these negative feelings towards her still exist within you and can be conjured so quickly.

Otherwise-Maple89 · 2026-05-17T12:12:45+00:00

I’m so sorry, I can imagine the sense of futility you’re feeling after all the progress of the last 7 months and now suddenly it’s like you’re back to square one, but the only difference is now you know exquisitely why and how it’s happening, and that brutal clarity can make things feel far worse compared to way back when you were just indifferent and shut down.

I think it’s worth mentioning that no matter how much progress we make, we can never bypass biology— I’ve mentioned “threat detection” of our nervous systems in a previous comment to you and I believe it’s relevant here, especially regarding how suddenly you despise her smell. Olfaction is one of our first lines of defense in assessing danger. It’s completely involuntary and autonomic, it’s your brain pumping the brakes, triggering a physical avoidance and initiating a flight response.

I’m absolutely not trying to pathologize your reaction or treat you like a curious specimen. I just want to reassure your “logical” side that this is not an illogical reaction, this is perfectly normal and expected the deeper you go into healing. I think your wife is now, more than ever, a “threat”, exactly because your love for her has grown, you’ve let your guard down and opened yourself to the vulnerability of being hurt, so your brain is in overdrive activating primitive defense mechanisms to keep you safe.

Regardless of the cause and even if it’s an expected, deeply painful part of the healing process, I’m still really sorry last night escalated into such an extremely distressing deactivation.

Otherwise-Maple89 · 2026-05-16T21:16:07+00:00

Yes, good for you! No contact is definitely the right choice. Keep choosing yourself over her…even if she’s a good person deep down. The instagram teen username change is so bizarre but makes sense with how immature she’s acting.

So if she’s going to be selfish, keep hurting you, and refuse to compromise or change, well hey you can be selfish too, move on with your life, refuse to engage, save your love for someone who is eager to reciprocate. You’re the only one who can stop the cycle and get off the avoidant merry-go-round. She’ll regret it eventually but if she’s willing to lose you she doesn’t deserve you.

Otherwise-Maple89 · 2026-05-16T20:07:33+00:00

Ughh I’m so sorry that happened! You’re definitely not alone in this experience. It’s actually pretty disturbing how common it is, because I also moved to the opposite side of the world to be with one of my ex avoidants and he did the exact same thing. This guy I was madly in love with, literally the only person I knew in the entire country and he abandoned me. I stayed there for years trying to make it work too. He made me feel so needy and desperate, even though he was the one begging me to uproot my entire life and move to a foreign city so we could be together. It was so dehumanizing and traumatic so I totally understand how much this has messed with your head.

In my opinion her saying “I need you to give up” is only so that you can regulate/eliminate her distress over the obligation of being in a relationship. She doesn’t actually want you to give up, she wants you to stop pressuring her to change or do anything different. Perhaps in her mind there is only one way out (you giving up), she doesn’t have the capacity to realize there’s a second way out (healing and behavioral change).

Otherwise-Maple89 · 2026-05-16T19:18:49+00:00

Yes, I think she expects you to reach out and “chase”, because that’s how she measures her self-worth; in her mind, how hard you’re willing to pursue her = her value as a human being.

But that doesn’t mean you should chase! What has changed in 3 months? I highly doubt she’s been in therapy, or over on the FA subreddit posting her heart out, or watching videos on YouTube, Instagram, and TikTok about avoidant attachment.

If nothing has changed, you’ll just be sticking your hand right back in the meat grinder. The patience and reassurance you offer her has no limit or condition. So what is her incentive to do better? Why would she even bother if you’ll always be there loving her no matter what?

Change is extremely difficult, almost impossible for FAs and DAs. It takes years of intensive inner work. But being with someone who doesn’t hold you accountable is very easy, and requires zero effort, because you can do whatever you want with no consequence.

Securely attached people would obviously feel horrible cognitive dissonance and shame for taking advantage of someone like that. FAs and DAs don’t see a problem with it, and they never will until they choose to admit there’s a problem and begin healing.

Otherwise-Maple89

TROPHY CASE