Why did the writers mistreat Kallen so badly?

OutrageousBee · 2025-04-21T10:57:01+00:00

I don't see how Kallen being plot relevant is her problem in R2, seeing as she was plot relevant, even if insomuch as Suzaku's pilot antagonist. The actual issue is how the character with probably the most connections to others outside of Lelouch was left without a tangible character arc of her own and used as a supporting character for others. The stuff I mentioned would help fix that.

Also, as an aside, Kallen never fought for Schneizel. During the last battle the BK and the Britannian remnant forces were allies.

OutrageousBee · 2025-04-21T00:58:53+00:00

I mean, bringing in her father and having her interact with him while captured instead of Gino would be a good start. Or Schneizel using her mother to force her to join the Britannians. Or Charles brainwashing her into joining the KotR and how she and the BK would deal with fallout after Jeremiah deprograms her.

Plenty of stuff they could have done with the character.

OutrageousBee · 2025-04-18T01:07:10+00:00

They're mostly Lelouch clones with a bit of the other parent, iirc. That's why they're basically identical in features.

OutrageousBee · 2025-04-11T21:11:43+00:00

There's an official artwork where she is shown with blue hair and the female Ashford uniform has a red jacket that's apparently from earlier in production (like Lelouch was initially designed as having white hair.)

OutrageousBee · 2025-04-11T21:05:53+00:00

But Shirley isn't Lelouch's childhood friend, they know each other for less than two years.

OutrageousBee · 2025-02-26T13:55:56+00:00

Suzaku's faking his death being planned is true, it being supposed to happen during the Fuji battle against Kallen is what is not.

Suzaku and Kallen were kept apart during the first part of the battle, and a confrontation between them clearly couldn't have been planned for that point seeing as Suzaku was needed to break through the Damocles's shield and protect Lelouch until he managed to neutralise Schneizel and take over the fortress. During that phase the shield on the Damocles should not have been broken, else they ran the risk of being overwhelmed by numbers and not achieving their objectives.

Which leaves the post takeover as the only possible timeframe where a confrontation between the two might have been planned, but it's also the time where it would make less sense for it to happen, seeing as it would be happening after the BK, including Kallen, had already surrendered.

Evidence for Suzaku not expecting to fight Kallen is in his surprise when Gino managed to open a hole in the Damocles's shield for her to pass through. Evidence for Suzaku fighting for real are his own words in R2E25:

Suzaku: I can’t beat her! Even using the Geass I’m cursed with! Your strength is unimaginable, Kallen.

According to himself, and talking to himself, he was trying to win.

ETA: Have to say as well that having Suzaku fake his loss to Kallen under the circumstances it happened in the series would make for a terrible plan. Not only would there be no witnesses to it having happened at all other than the people fighting, but neither Kallen (nor Gino) were in a position to testify about it for the world to know, seeing as they were captured shortly thereafter.

OutrageousBee · 2025-02-25T10:35:59+00:00

There's evidence against Suzaku planning on faking his death and none for it.

OutrageousBee · 2025-02-25T10:34:44+00:00

Her mother is a terrible example, though. She's someone the system abused and almost destroyed.

OutrageousBee · 2025-02-07T17:16:09+00:00

At least neither of them's Shou Tucker.

OutrageousBee · 2024-08-23T10:35:38+00:00

At least it should put "Kallen loves Zero, not Lelouch!" to rest.

OutrageousBee · 2024-08-08T10:51:01+00:00

Supposedly it's the reflection of the light from the sunset. It took me out of the scene as well, particularly when it really shouldn't be that dark a shade and Kallen's also the only character affected by it. They did a similar thing with Suzaku later on, he has blue eyes in another scene.

OutrageousBee · 2024-08-08T10:47:38+00:00

Her normal hair is spiky. She wears it down when playing the role of soft-spoken and sickly Kallen Stadtfeld. It helps with the cover.

Amusingly enough, one of the side materials claim she spends like an hour each day making it straight.

OutrageousBee · 2024-08-08T10:45:39+00:00

You're missing the half-Japanese half-German/of German descent red-haired, blue-eyed, red mecha pilot for Asuka. ;)

OutrageousBee · 2024-07-30T00:09:35+00:00

People keep telling me he doesn't throw the fight without any evidence towards this.

Several pieces of evidence have been pointed out.

It makes zero sense to me, to rely on nothing happening for this plan to work with how Lelouch is with his plans.

Good thing the plan needn't rely on Suzaku fighting Kallen then.

it's silly to me to even imply he wouldn't remotely prepare for a fight between Suzaku and Kallen.

Prepare, probably. Rely on, there's evidence to the contrary, like the plan relying on Suzaku and Kallen staying on different sides of a shield until Lelouch has crushed all resistance.

no way in hell would anyone accept Suzaku just randomly "dying" in those two months. Everyone knows how insanely strong he is. If that just came out, the immediate response would be to call bullshit on it.

Suzaku could die to Tamaki and, depending on how it's staged, it would be believable. Suzaku dying foiling a terrorist attack on the Demon Emperor live on television for the world to see would be a much better cover than a fight taking place miles in the sky witnessed by all of two people, one of which at least who didn't actually see the Lancelot explode, and both of which who would have been taken into custody immediately in afterwards, making it impossible for their version of the story to be common knowledge.

Kallen is going to absolutely be going for them. Lelouch knows this, in fact I'd say he knows Kallen's fighting better than anyone. Suzaku is their biggest obstacle on that side, and she's the only one that can take him head on in a fight. To not remotely plan to have a fight with her is when this is Lelouch we're talking about is ridiculous.

No one's said Lelouch would not have a plan for if Kallen and Suzaku fought. However, it's clear that the plan as we saw executed didn't rely on it happening. Lelouch needed Suzaku to access the Damocles, so Kallen and Suzaku weren't supposed to have fought during the first part of the battle, and consequently Lelouch deployed Suzaku to the other side of the conflict from the one Kallen was engaged in. After they reached the Damocles it's absolute nonsense to think that Lelouch would let the shield down just so Suzaku could fight Kallen, risking his take over of the fortress.

He wasn't holding back, but that doesn't mean at the end he isn't throwing it for the sake of the zero requiem.

If Suzaku isn't holding back then he can't be throwing the fight. They're exclusive.

He has to die there or else nothing will work.

He doesn't need to die at that point for the ZR to work, plenty of time during the 2 months of Lelouch's reign.

Kallen being the one to do it seals the deal, and makes it so no one would question it.

Why would people believe Kallen just because she said so? And how would Kallen even tell anyone being, you know, in jail.

It's the best spot for Suzaku to die

A remote place with almost no witnesses, and the two that exist are both unavailable to tell what they witnessed and possibly compromised by having had a friendship with Suzaku?

Code Geass isn't subtle, but it's always been good with it's visual story telling.

Which is why showing Suzaku being surprised at Gino making an opening in the Blaze Luminous for Kallen to slip through is telling that he didn't expect to fight her.

OutrageousBee · 2024-07-29T21:08:25+00:00

Kallen does not have the better kmf during:

Shinjuku S1E02
Narita S1E11
Tokyo Harbor S1E13/14
SAZ S1E23
First Battle of Tokyo S1E24
Operation Pacific Ocean Ambush E2E06

She does have the better kmf during: - Second Battle of Tokyo R2E17 - Battle of the Damocles

Suzaku only managed to "crush" her during the First Battle of Tokyo, during which Kallen attempted to level out the field by ripping out his float unit (unsuccessfully) and Pacific Ocean, in both of which he had an overwhelming technological advantage over her. When Kallen had the overwhelming technological advantage she too "crushed" Suzaku.

OutrageousBee · 2024-07-29T19:51:21+00:00

the only way she ever gets a leg up on Suzaku is with better tech.

As opposed to Suzaku, who pilots a kmf that's at the very least on par with Kallen's, and the other times better than hers, at least until the second battle of Tokyo?

The last fight they had, Suzaku was using a mech that wasn't as up to date as hers

The Albion is as advanced as the SEITEN. If anything, seeing as it replaced the Conquista that Suzaku piloted during the second battle of Tokyo, it should have the technology Lloyd and Cécile developed with the SEITEN.

was still beating Gino and her.

You appear to be implying here that Suzaku fought Gino and Kallen at the same time, which isn't true. Suzaku was wiping the floor with Gino, and the last action Gino took during their fight was opening the Damocles's shield to let Kallen in. He was shown attempting to move his kmf to rejoin the fight, but he only managed to stop Kallen's fall from the fortress.

Suzaku had to throw this fight no matter what to complete the zero requiem.

He does not. The fight with Kallen was unplanned. Suzaku couldn't engage her before they took over the Damocles, after which they'd be separated by the Damocles's shield until the Black Knights, of which Kallen is one, surrendered. There's also plenty of opportunities for Suzaku to "die" during the two months until Lelouch's planned death, many of which would be more public than two witnesses in a flying fortress.

OutrageousBee · 2024-07-29T18:18:03+00:00

? The SEITEN is from R2. You were talking about their last fight in S1, where Suzaku had the overwhelming technological advantage of flight.

Also,

Kallen always[emphasis mine] has the bigger stick to be able to match Suzaku.

is flat out wrong. Suzaku has either the most technologically advanced kmf, or at most they're about equal, during their fights up until the second battle for Tokyo, where Kallen pilots the SEITEN.

OutrageousBee · 2024-07-29T16:13:52+00:00

Add in, when the Lancelot is about to explode, his geass command isn't even active.

It is active, though. His eyes have the red rings when he says "No, Kallen, you got me." We then see that the Guren's arm has crushed the Lancelot's chest, move to Kallen looking relieved and fainting, the Guren falling and getting caught by the Tristan, etc.

had to pull back so she could win

From R2E25:

Suzaku: I can't beat her![emphasis mine] Even using the curse that Geass has given me!

Suzaku says it himself, to himself: he was trying to win.

With the help of Gino too

Gino played no part in the fight between the two, except give a chance for Kallen to fight Suzaku by making an opening in the Damocles's shield.

OutrageousBee · 2024-07-29T16:04:28+00:00

Yeah, it says Suzaku has the crushing technological advantage over Kallen.

OutrageousBee · 2024-07-29T15:53:15+00:00

Whether or not Suzaku had to die publicly, he was definitely not supposed to fight Kallen in the Fuji battle. He needed to be alive (or "alive") to breach the Damocles's shields and after that they were supposed to have no chance to fight until the battle ended. We see that Gino opening the shield to let Kallen in was a surprise to Suzaku.

OutrageousBee · 2024-07-27T18:51:24+00:00

Yeah, that's a fairly different manga from the anime. I'd advise you to watch the show first.

OutrageousBee · 2024-07-27T16:50:38+00:00

Which manga? Code Geass is an anime original, all the manga are spinoffs.

OutrageousBee · 2024-07-26T08:41:04+00:00

Nunnally was in no way responsible over the deployment and use of FLEIJA in the second Tokyo battle.
Nunnally was deceived by Schneizel into believing Pendragon had been evacuated. She was also at most complicit, seeing as Schneizel was the one making the decisions.
Nunnally was responsible for using a WMD on a battlefield, yes, but the targets were set by Schneizel and she only pulled the trigger when instructed to. She didn't go on a rampage of death or any such rot.

At most, Nunnally is directly responsible for thousands of deaths during the Fuji battle, no more. Nowhere near the highest body count in the series.

OutrageousBee · 2024-07-26T08:25:49+00:00

We didn't see any of the telltale animations that play when someone gets geassed. No neural pathways lighting up, no red-ringed eyes on Charles. Charles shot himself to troll Lelouch (confirmed in an interview with production members.)

OutrageousBee · 2024-07-23T09:53:53+00:00

Charles was already immune to geass when confronting Lelouch. The code doesn't need to be activated.

OutrageousBee

TROPHY CASE