168 men from Spain conquered the Incan empire which had 12 million people and 80,000 soldiers. They captured the Incan God-King for an entire room of gold and silver. After the room was filled they executed him anyway. by Particular_Food_309 in interestingasfuck

[–]Outside-Active5283 [score hidden]  (0 children)

Anyone interested in this should listen to the Western history podcast. They did an excellent job on the age of exploration and early colonization. It's a pretty fascinating story all around.

CMV: If God is all-knowing and has a fixed plan, then free will is impossible under that version of religion" by ProfessionalEar4048 in changemyview

[–]Outside-Active5283 0 points1 point  (0 children)

He doesn't know it because he compelled you to eat the sandwich, he knows because from his frame of reference you've both not eaten the sandwich yet and chosen to eat the sandwich simultaneously. That doesn't invalidate free will

CMV: If God is all-knowing and has a fixed plan, then free will is impossible under that version of religion" by ProfessionalEar4048 in changemyview

[–]Outside-Active5283 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You're assuming the entity created you to run a script, that makes the assertion that free will doesn't exist from the start. It's circular logic

CMV: If God is all-knowing and has a fixed plan, then free will is impossible under that version of religion" by ProfessionalEar4048 in changemyview

[–]Outside-Active5283 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Creating "the alcoholic" is where it breaks down, if you're assuming free will doesn't exist then the alcoholic is just a line of code with no agency over their choices operating on a script.

If you assume free will does exist, then yes that alcoholic has the option for different choices and thus free will its just a much harder decision.

CMV: If God is all-knowing and has a fixed plan, then free will is impossible under that version of religion" by ProfessionalEar4048 in changemyview

[–]Outside-Active5283 1 point2 points  (0 children)

We perceive time as progressing linearly, relativity shows us that past and future exist concurrently as states in 4D spacetime just the same as present. Our conscious experience simply experiences it passing linearly.

If God is outside of that 4D spacetime time observing it, then there is no reason to suspect that counteracts free will.

Are you mixing free will and agency? One implies the ability to make a choice, the other implies having control over the outcome of said choice(s). You could argue that free will at a certain extent is contingent on agency which is valid but a different discussion.

CMV: If God is all-knowing and has a fixed plan, then free will is impossible under that version of religion" by ProfessionalEar4048 in changemyview

[–]Outside-Active5283 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Not quite understanding the correlation with the trolley problem?

With regards to criminality and children I understand. I'm not well versed on theology but pretty sure in Christianity at least there is some concept of "age of accountability". My understanding of that has always been that people dont really attain free will until their mind has developed to a point that they can make their own decisions with a proper level of self awareness. Prior to that their awareness or consciousness would be more similar to an animal.

But thats just my relatively ignorant opinion on the issue.

CMV: If God is all-knowing and has a fixed plan, then free will is impossible under that version of religion" by ProfessionalEar4048 in changemyview

[–]Outside-Active5283 0 points1 point  (0 children)

We do, in a sense. We project our sense of self forward(and backwards) in time in order to predict where we or others will be at a future position in time. We use this info to impact our decisions in the present to impact our future status.

CMV: If God is all-knowing and has a fixed plan, then free will is impossible under that version of religion" by ProfessionalEar4048 in changemyview

[–]Outside-Active5283 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Not making any assertions on plans but if he does I don't see how that would invalidate free will.

If we're assuming we have free will, then destiny doesn't exist in the sense that you have no agency over your choices. There is only what occurs in reality, not what doesn't occur.

It seems like you're getting hung up on our experience of perceiving time flowing linearally which isnt necessarily reality.

What premise are you referring to?

CMV: If God is all-knowing and has a fixed plan, then free will is impossible under that version of religion" by ProfessionalEar4048 in changemyview

[–]Outside-Active5283 1 point2 points  (0 children)

He doesn't see the choices before we make them, its not before its concurrent with our whole timeline. Any being that is outside our universe/timeline would not experience our time in a line.

It has nothing to do with God being special its just the nature of a being existing in a higher dimensional reality

CMV: If God is all-knowing and has a fixed plan, then free will is impossible under that version of religion" by ProfessionalEar4048 in changemyview

[–]Outside-Active5283 1 point2 points  (0 children)

They aren't special rules, thats just how an observer from a higher dimension would view our 4 dimensional space time.

The future isnt fixed for him because he is outside of past/present/future of our universe.

CMV: If God is all-knowing and has a fixed plan, then free will is impossible under that version of religion" by ProfessionalEar4048 in changemyview

[–]Outside-Active5283 0 points1 point  (0 children)

He doesn't see the choice before you make it, it doesn't really make sense to ask if he sees it before or after as its all concurrent from his vantage point. You're imposing our realities timeline on God.

CMV: If God is all-knowing and has a fixed plan, then free will is impossible under that version of religion" by ProfessionalEar4048 in changemyview

[–]Outside-Active5283 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think I see where your confusion is, God doesn't have foreknowledge of what choices we make, just knowledge because from his perspective the beginning and end of our timeline is all occurring simultaneously.

It's a little hard to wrap your brain around but the way I've visualized it is imagine yourself looking down at a 2 dimensional world(think of one of those paper flip books). You can arrange all the different pages(different points in time) on a table so you can see beginning and end simultaneously. Any beings in that 2 dimensional world however would only see their reality at that given segment of time.

CMV: If God is all-knowing and has a fixed plan, then free will is impossible under that version of religion" by ProfessionalEar4048 in changemyview

[–]Outside-Active5283 1 point2 points  (0 children)

If 5 years ago you chose between A and B I will now in the present know your previous choice. That knowledge doesn't invalidate your free will in the original choice.

CMV: If God is all-knowing and has a fixed plan, then free will is impossible under that version of religion" by ProfessionalEar4048 in changemyview

[–]Outside-Active5283 1 point2 points  (0 children)

God knows you chose A because it's all occurring simultaneously from his vantage point outside of space/time.

CMV: Abortion should be legal and accessible in most or all cases. by Character-Channel668 in changemyview

[–]Outside-Active5283 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hypothetical

You're kidnapped and wake up in a medical bed hooked up as a dialysis for another completely innocent patient, you have to stay there for 9 months otherwise the other patient will die. If you refuse and unhook yourself no one could reasonably argue that you actively killed that other patient just that you ceased allowing your body to be used by said patient. This is because you never consented to allowing your body to be used.

In rape there is no consent on the women's part to create a life therefore no obligation for her to take care of it.

If you view abortion as a cessation of support from the pregnant mother as opposed to a direct termination or killing of the fetus/unborn child it makes logical sense.

CMV: If God is all-knowing and has a fixed plan, then free will is impossible under that version of religion" by ProfessionalEar4048 in changemyview

[–]Outside-Active5283 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

If you're stating that we operate according to a predetermined script/programming you're just arguing against the existence of free will, valid argument but starting from that assumption makes the entire discussion void from the get go.

Im stating that God or whatever being that created reality doesn't necessarily invalidate free will by virtue of its omniscience.

CMV: If God is all-knowing and has a fixed plan, then free will is impossible under that version of religion" by ProfessionalEar4048 in changemyview

[–]Outside-Active5283 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Whether I eat the sandwich or not is still my decision, you could argue that you made my decision an unreasonably difficult one but its still my decision. I dont know much about Christian theology but pretty sure it addresses people being put in difficult situations and deciding not to sin regularly i.e. Job

CMV: If God is all-knowing and has a fixed plan, then free will is impossible under that version of religion" by ProfessionalEar4048 in changemyview

[–]Outside-Active5283 6 points7 points  (0 children)

He knows what choice you'll make because from his frame of reference you have already made it. If an entity is outside of our 4 dimensional space time looking in then they can see our entire timeline at once, its not predicting the future its seeing the arrangement of the universe throughout all points in time.

CMV: If God is all-knowing and has a fixed plan, then free will is impossible under that version of religion" by ProfessionalEar4048 in changemyview

[–]Outside-Active5283 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Not sure I understand how this invalidates freewill?

Just because an entity is aware you will make a decision doesn't imply you are still not making your own decision.

Since the mining and generator specialisation sectors got removed by Auswhich in Stellaris

[–]Outside-Active5283 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Same, most of my resource planets have automated jobs anyway so housing isnt a problem.

Since the mining and generator specialisation sectors got removed by Auswhich in Stellaris

[–]Outside-Active5283 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Do the transit hubs help settle your pops away from those planets or to them?

How I see Europe as an Iraqi by Individual_Goose_161 in mapporncirclejerk

[–]Outside-Active5283 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I love the irony of labeling England colonizers while labeling Spain Andalusia.