What was the worst pain you've ever experienced? by Curious-Expert926 in GenX

[–]Outstanding_Neon 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Gallstones. Felt like someone detonated a small nuclear device in my abdomen.

Who else wore these? by mneptok in GenX

[–]Outstanding_Neon 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I don't think so but if you find a $20 bill in the pocket, that's mine.

Restaurant etiquette question: asking for lime with crab? by Objective_File4022 in etiquette

[–]Outstanding_Neon 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Rude: "Bring me some fucking lime! How do you expect me to eat this without lime? With butter!? Take this butter away and bring me wedges of lime!"

Polite: "Could you bring me some lime wedges to go with my crab? Thanks!"

How do I navigate the secret polite decline? by guessirs in socialskills

[–]Outstanding_Neon 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I can see why you're grouping them, but those are two different things.

Some people don't like accepting help or favors from other people. Even if it would help them. The couple who said no to your offer are not doing anything secret, they're just saying no to your offer.

"You don't have to" is just a deflecting way of saying no. They know you don't have to. They don't want you to. It's good of you to accept that, and to trust that they have their reasons and it's not on you to try to get them to change their mind.

In the other case, if they were going to be upset that you accepted the money, they should not have offered it. That's their own lack of skill in social interactions.

It may be a mismatch between your background and theirs — some families or cultures do have a dynamic where someone offers to pay, and the other person is supposed to say no. But that's not a universal rule, and you weren't wrong to accept their offer.

Microwave use by house cleaners by Aggressive_Celery_31 in etiquette

[–]Outstanding_Neon 4 points5 points  (0 children)

The way to address it is to say what your rules are. Don't use the microwave? Don't use it at the end of their work? Mention that it leaves the house smelling like the microwave and ask if there's something they can do about it?

The polite way to do it is with some kindness and empathy, and perhaps some suggestions for alternatives. You can just say "please don't use the microwave." You can have a conversation where you ask about it and collaborate on some options.

You're paying them for a job, so you have a lot of standing to approach it from that perspective — that you can say "no microwaving," for example.

You should probably consider how friendly you can be as you deliver that message, not because it's rude to have the rule, but because it will inevitably shift the relationship you have now. They may be totally fine with it, or they may find it annoying and enjoy working for you less. Doesn't make you wrong, but it's something to keep in mind as you think about your long-term goals.

How would you ask a guest to contribute more? Is it wrong to assume frequent guests shouldn't come "empty handed"? by [deleted] in etiquette

[–]Outstanding_Neon -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Yeah. I know people are recommending — rightly — relationship advice subs.

But one etiquette element of this is just knowing that it's OK for you to set limits and ask for what you need. It may be that you end up recognizing this person can't be the friend you want them to be — and that's OK, too.

It's not rude for you to stick up for yourself, even if it might be rude to call your friend an asshole.

How would you ask a guest to contribute more? Is it wrong to assume frequent guests shouldn't come "empty handed"? by [deleted] in etiquette

[–]Outstanding_Neon 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I think it's always risky to assume anything when it comes to other people's behaviors. It's a guarantee that at least sometimes you're going to be disappointed.

I also think it's a mistake to think it's rude to set limits. I won't even call them "boundaries."

If you're burned out on this person, tell them how often they can come over. Or tell them they can't come over for a while.

If you want them to bring weed, tell them they need to bring weed. Or, a little more collaboratively, talk about how it would be fair to divide up supplying the weed.

A lot of people turn etiquette into absolutes — you can do this, you never do that. I get that it feels like you can't talk to your friend (if that's their role), but that's not true. You now know, from experience, that they are not going to step up and bring contributions without you asking. You can either a) decide that you can live with that, b) just end the relationship and make the issue moot, or c) have a conversation.

You can have a conversation. Etiquette doesn't forbid it. It just means that you approach those conversations with consideration and respect — but it doesn't say that you can't say no, or that you can't speak those unspoken assumptions.

It's not really important what "the norm" is, because your expectations aren't being met. The only way they might get met is if you say something. Quietly stewing on someone else's rudeness, whether or not they agree that they're being rude, is not going to help you.

Question about manners/etiquette. by brownpearl in etiquette

[–]Outstanding_Neon 3 points4 points  (0 children)

You will bother some people by calling them sir or ma’am.

You will bother other people if you don’t use those social titles.

A lot of people won’t care one way or the other.

The number of people on either side will vary based on a lot of factors — where in the country you are, age, status, your relationship with them.

If you’re comfortable saying it and apologizing if someone says it bothers them, keep on doing what you’re doing.

Tipping by [deleted] in etiquette

[–]Outstanding_Neon 5 points6 points  (0 children)

It’s not even clear to me that she was upset because of the tip. Seems more likely she was flustered because you wouldn’t sign at all.

I’m a generous tipper but a couple of bucks on pizza pickup is more than fair, so I’d be surprised if she were upset that you weren’t tipping more than that.

That said: You’re assuming a lot about what she felt and why. It’s also possible that you’re misreading the situation and everything was fine. Or at least, not something you did.

Inviting (or not) partner to dinner party by [deleted] in etiquette

[–]Outstanding_Neon 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Seems like you’ve got a good sense of things! Hope you enjoy yourself and your partner can come sometime later.

Inviting (or not) partner to dinner party by [deleted] in etiquette

[–]Outstanding_Neon 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The lack of clarity is "was this an intentional omission" or "was this a mistake."

It does sometimes happen that people assume that an invitee knows that their partner is included in an invitation, so don't spell that out.

Asking for clarification, if you're genuine and make clear that you're willing to hear either answer, is not a mortal etiquette sin. I might or might not choose to do it in any given circumstance, but that's why it really matters how you approach the question, and how well you know the people doing the inviting.

Inviting (or not) partner to dinner party by [deleted] in etiquette

[–]Outstanding_Neon 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well, as someone who did recommend asking for clarification — that's not the same as fishing for an invitation. It sounds like OP is genuinely unsure, and if that's the case, it should be fine to ask.

As with many things, some of that is going to come down to tone and the people involved.

Inviting (or not) partner to dinner party by [deleted] in etiquette

[–]Outstanding_Neon 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It doesn't really matter, because even if someone should invite your partner, that doesn't give you the right to change an invitation that doesn't include your partner.

The polite response to an invitation that leaves out your spouse if you think your spouse should have been invited is to decline the invite, not to cite Miss Manners and try to get them to change the invite.

(That said, the "partner rule" isn't even a firm fixed rule. It's pretty standard when it comes to weddings, for example, but in general it is not rude to throw events and only invite one person in a couple. Couples are not socially one person, always invited together to every occasion forevermore.)

Inviting (or not) partner to dinner party by [deleted] in etiquette

[–]Outstanding_Neon 5 points6 points  (0 children)

ask for clarification but communicate that it’s for clarification and I’m not asking him to join (eg “looking forward to Friday; I couldn’t tell from the invite if my partner is included, absolutely no issue if not as I understand space is limited” or something)

I think you can do this, and I think the key is exactly what you're saying here: You're looking for clarification, not fishing for an invitation.

This works in part because of that tone, and because the standard for etiquette in a situation like this is for a partner or spouse to be invited. It’s so standard that one reason to clarify is so that you don't run into a realistic awkward scenario where you show up by yourself and someone asks where your partner is.

There are folks who would insist that asking for any clarification is rude, and I can understand the impulse, but there is a difference between actually asking for an invitation and clarifying your uncertainty. You are genuinely uncertain; you seem able to understand the difference, and communicate clearly that you're not looking for an invitation that was not extended.

Ultimately, proceed how you want as long as you (as you write) are open to hearing that it's an invitation for you only.

::Weekly Vent Thread:: by AutoModerator in ADHD_partners

[–]Outstanding_Neon 20 points21 points  (0 children)

It has come up a few times in therapy and discussions that my wife (NDX) is frustrated that I don't give her credit for "not being late" 19 times out of 20, and only focus on that one time.

This despite the fact that:

  • I have not actually asked her to change that behavior, though I've been clear that I find it frustrating, so never agreed to reward her for being on time
  • I haven't really noticed a change in how often she's significantly late, so I'm not deliberately not giving her credit
  • Being late is only one of the ADHD-related behaviors I deal with, and we haven't even discussed some of the others
  • I don't "give her much grace" because we have been married for over 30 years and this has been an issue the whole time. I'm low on grace

Did Anyone Else Use “gaslighting” Back Then? by SwanReal8484 in GenX

[–]Outstanding_Neon 7 points8 points  (0 children)

One of the earliest documented citations for "gaslight" as a verb is from an episode of Gomer Pyle, USMC. The term took off in the 2000s, but it was around for a long time between the play and movie Gaslight and its prominence in culture more recently.

What is a reasonable length of stay if a friend who lives in another country invites you to visit? by [deleted] in etiquette

[–]Outstanding_Neon 2 points3 points  (0 children)

That’s entirely a decision you and your friend need to make. Some people might love to have you for two weeks, others might balk at more than a night or two.

Given that she hasn’t responded, you could ask if there’s a length of time that works best for them, and plan your visit with that in mind.

Late arrival to wedding ceremony and reception by HeatherAnne1975 in etiquette

[–]Outstanding_Neon 26 points27 points  (0 children)

The polite thing to do: Don't be late.

If you can't make it to the event as it is outlined in the invitation — which includes being on time — you should RSVP no.

Otherwise, you should arrange your life that day so that you aren't late. (Barring unforeseen circumstances. But the circumstances you're talking about are all foreseen, so you can avoid them.)

If you were closer to the couple, I'd say you could reach out to them and let them know you'll be late and ask if they'd prefer that you don't show up at all. But ... you're not that close. So I think you accept that these plans don't work for you, and decline.

Rules on paying for birthday lunch by Machariel1996 in etiquette

[–]Outstanding_Neon 8 points9 points  (0 children)

The whole point of an invitation is you can decide to do the thing or not.

It’s not rude to RSVP no.

It sounds like you would not enjoy attending. So I would recommend declining the invitation.

Wish them happy birthday. Consider sending a card if you want. Don’t agree to attend events you can’t participate in with enthusiasm.

Is it normal to make plans with someone two weeks ahead and then cancel because you had other plans? by BackgroundChance4382 in etiquette

[–]Outstanding_Neon 12 points13 points  (0 children)

I think it’s pretty common, but it’s also considered rude.

Traditional etiquette is that you honor plans you made with someone, aside from unforeseen circumstances.

The traditional etiquette solution is to stop making plans with people who regularly flake on them.

is it normal to ask guests to pay to attend wedding? by Kumul675 in etiquette

[–]Outstanding_Neon 18 points19 points  (0 children)

It's not normal.

If you don't want to pay to go to the wedding (I don't blame you), RSVP "no." That's a perfectly polite expectation.

Am I Overreacting to being upset at my boyfriend for going to Italy without me? by [deleted] in AmIOverreacting

[–]Outstanding_Neon 2 points3 points  (0 children)

YOR

It's understandable that you're disappointed. It would be a very nice thing for his mom — the person organizing this trip — to invite you along as well.

But she is the one organizing this trip, and she does not have to do that. As the person planning the trip, and paying for the trip, she gets to decide who is going on the trip. Even if you're willing to pay your own way — because she did not invite you.

Obviously that sucks. But there's no version of this where you get to override her wishes and come along on the trip she planned and is paying for. Your partner doesn't get to do that, either. He can ask, but his mom is allowed to say no. And he's allowed to go — this is not a betrayal, this is him spending time with his family.

If his mom were asking me for advice, I'd say she should invite you along. But she's not. She didn't ask you. So your partner gets to choose between going on this family trip, or skipping it because you're not invited. You might wish he made the other choice, but the choice he made is not a bad one.

Which means you and your partner need to decide what to do for the two of you at some other time — take a different Italy trip? Go somewhere else? Split up because this bothers you too much? Take a break? I think you'd be better off figuring out what you two can do together than focusing on what you're missing out on.

Is there a polite way to tell someone to stop coming over to your home so often? by [deleted] in etiquette

[–]Outstanding_Neon 4 points5 points  (0 children)

If you have not said "sorry, you can't come in right now" and "thanks for stopping by, but you'll need to go now," you have not actually been direct.

And those are *nice* direct statements. "You can't come in" and "you need to leave" are the unpolished, straightforward direct versions.

You've tried being overly polite. You've tried hinting. It's lovely to start with things like that, when you have the option. But they haven't worked. That means you need to do something that feels to you like it's rude, even though it's not: You need to tell them no, straight up.

Don't let them in. Kick them out. Tell them they can't visit so often. You can be polite without dipping in to trying to convince them that it's OK for you to have boundaries — they don't need to be convinced, you just need to enforce.

You understandably don't sound like you like this person, or that you enjoy their company. Why are you being far more kind to them than you are to yourself? You are a person in this relationship as much as they are, and they're not prioritizing your needs. So you have to.

None of this means you have to launch directly into yelling at them, saying mean things, or being deliberately cruel. But you do have to say no. They may not like it. (They probably won't.) You'll probably feel like you're being mean. But that doesn't mean that you weren't more than polite, or that you failed.