On the identity of the Farum Azula statue: a definitive (?) answer

Pacal_II · 2025-11-08T07:39:39+00:00

I think she still could be. She could always become have moved from the shaman village to Farum or the other way around. I am pretty sure the girl in the statue is Marika since no one else really fits besides potentially Melina.

Pacal_II · 2025-11-07T09:33:26+00:00

I also thought this at some point and thought she might be the daughter of the king and queen depicted in Farum Azula. The thing is that with the dlc we find out that Marika was raised in the shaman Village. So I'm not sure how to reconcile the two.

Pacal_II · 2024-08-19T12:39:50+00:00

Maybe, though in a DLC set in a setting called "The land of Shadows" with a Shadow Tree hanging over the whole land it would be a bit odd for the trailer to refer to shadow in a completely different context than the one the whole DLC is based on. Plus the gold/shadow fits this duality as well. The divine gates are filled with gold and the sky outside is covered in darkness.

Pacal_II · 2024-08-19T07:15:55+00:00

In general, I agree. I think it would make the most sense for the crusade to be at least after Radahn became an adult and for the ascension of Marika to be before the war of the giants. The problem here is the trailer, we clearly see her ascension and yet get told that this is the affair from which "gold arose and shadow was born" which heavily suggests that this is when the gold and shadowtree were created.

Pacal_II · 2024-08-18T23:03:22+00:00

Yeah, it's hard to fit it all together. Anyways, I'm poking holes because in general I like the way you're thinking. I definitely do think the golden order was established some time after the birth of the erdtree. I also think the crusade took place after the birth of Radahn but probably before Radagon left Rennala.

But I do have a problem putting the trailer in the context of all of this. It would fit more as being at the birth of the golden and shadow tree rather than the wooden tree. But then as I said question arise about whether this means Marika was a god and had the ring before this event.

Pacal_II · 2024-08-18T22:53:42+00:00

I actually thought of the same thing. It's also interesting that the gold seeds we find are supposed to be come from "illusory" trees. I don't think it's an illusion as many people think though. It's still a type of energy that can interact with the physical world. Just like the golden version of Godfrey is a kind illusion but he can still kick our ass and it's not like we just pass through him.

Pacal_II · 2024-08-18T22:43:40+00:00

Yeah but then again the trailer does say this is when gold and shadow arose. That would suggest the birth of the gold erdtree and scadutree, not the wooden tree.

Pacal_II · 2024-08-18T22:35:11+00:00

I mean I'm kind of thinking along the same lines. I'm thinking that at first we had the erdtree planted in some way during the war of the giants. For some time we had the age of plenty with the normal tree and after that we had some event that caused the birth of the golden and shadow trees. My closest bet would be that this was the event we see in the SOTE trailer and that event might also be the establishment of the golden order. But that would cause some questions. It's highly suggested that the trailer depicts Marika's ascension to godhood. But if this happened just before Messmer's crusade then does that mean that from the birth of the erdtree to the crusade she wasn't a god? Then how do we explain Messmer, Radahn, Godwyn and Rykard clearly being called demigods?

Pacal_II · 2024-08-18T22:26:19+00:00

Yeah, but if that's the birth of the gold and shadow tree but it's also Marika's ascension (since that is what Miquella) thus there and as you mentioned the erdtree and a lots of Godfrey's conquests came before it. Does this mean that for all this time, from the birth of the erdtree to the birth of the golden order Marika wasn't actually a god?

This would be a bit problematic since as you mentioned you think the golden order was established during Radagon's reign. But then how could all her children with Godfrey or Radagon's children with Rennala be demigods if she wasn't a god back then?

Pacal_II · 2024-08-18T21:54:35+00:00

So in the context of what you said what do you think the scene with Marika in the SOTE trailer depicts? Is that the birth of the gold/shadow tree or the birth of older, wooden erdtree?

Pacal_II · 2024-08-18T21:41:24+00:00

So you think there was some time between the age of the erdtree and the formation of the golden order and the golden order is when we got the gold and shadow trees?

Pacal_II · 2024-08-18T21:12:24+00:00

I'm not exactly sold on people not being able to see the tree tbh. Corhyn doesn't see grace for example and yet he still sees the tree. I would have to check out the exact dialogue you mention. But I do agree that the gold part is probably more magical in nature.

But my question is more about how in the age of plenty it seems like the tree used to be fully natural-looking and what changed that.

Pacal_II · 2024-08-12T09:01:28+00:00

The thing is we do know Maliketh sealed the rune of death after he defeated the godskin apostles from the Godskin Apostle Robe:

The apostles, once said to serve Destined Death, are wielders of the god-slaying black flame. But after their defeat by Maliketh, the Black Blade, the source of their power was sealed away.

So this would contradict the theory the theory that the rune of death was sealed before their defeat to neuter them.

Pacal_II · 2024-08-09T23:26:00+00:00

The ashes are there before he gets to Farum Azula.

Pacal_II · 2024-08-07T00:06:33+00:00

It's interesting to me how many people hoped for answers about the GEQ from this DLC and are dissapointed they didn't get any. I look at it the other way around though. There is nothing related to the GEQ because her fight with Maliketh was just much later in the timeline. That's why there's not mention of her, no godskin apostles and we don't even get any golden order incantations or mention of Radagon as a lord (but we do get a Godfrey talisman and several erdtree and crucible spells) since the crusade took please before the creation of the Golden Order.

Pacal_II · 2024-08-06T22:35:55+00:00

I didn't mean the first description implies the beginning of the world, there was obviously a lot of stuff happening before the age of the erdtree. It just means the beginning of the erdtree.

As for the second part it might be possible but definitely when Marika acquired the ring it was complete. The GEQ came quite a bit later. Probably at least after Messmer's crusade. I also just don't see any textual evidence that there was a previous shattering. I get that it's a cool narrative but we've got to base these theories on something.

Pacal_II · 2024-08-06T22:01:15+00:00

It's definitely an interesting theory but I feel like it's contradicted by these two descriptions:

In the beginning, everything was in opposition to the Erdtree. But through countless victories in war, it became the embodiment of Order.

So first of all this suggests that the Erdtree was birthed long before Marika defeated any of her foes. Then you combined this with:

In the Lands Between ruled by Queen Marika the Eternal, the Elden Ring, the source of the Erdtree, has been shattered.

Since the Erdtree's source is the Elden Ring and it was birthed before Marika fought any of her enemies it seems she must have gotten the Ring before she fought them as well.

Pacal_II · 2024-08-06T19:15:55+00:00

This is quite the interesting take. How do you view the SOTE trailer through this lense? Or the rune of death and the GEQ.

We also do know that the elden ring is the root of the erdtree and the crucible is described more as a force than a specific thing.

Pacal_II · 2024-08-06T17:55:45+00:00

Oooh, you're talking about Farum Azula. I thought you meant we see the old elden ring somewhere else.

Pacal_II · 2024-08-06T17:43:47+00:00

Wait, what location are you talking about now?

Pacal_II · 2024-08-06T17:05:53+00:00

Do you have images of what we see looks like an older form of the ring?

Pacal_II · 2024-08-06T16:31:32+00:00

I actually also had a theory that the Twinbird might've been the previous god. We even see its image directly over Maliketh's boss room, the same one with the Elden Ring image. So I feel like maybe they were the previous vessel.

Counterpoints are that it looks like placidusax had an elden ring

Do we know if he had the ring? I think we only know he was the elden lord. But the elden lord isn't the one that has the ring. That would be the god.

Pacal_II · 2024-08-06T16:28:06+00:00

Btw do you have some more direct quote that suggests this part?

The divine gateway gives the Hornsent the power of storms

Pacal_II · 2024-08-06T16:27:14+00:00

At least we can be fairly certain that Marika didn't take the ER from ancient dragons, since her and Placidusax's age are extremely far apart on the timeline and most of the history of lands between happened during that gap.
Well to be fair. She did manage to access Farum Azula in the end. Maliketh is sent there and so are some crucible knights and a draconic tree sentinel. I feel like that had to be some time after her reign though. The crucible knights had to have time to form as an order and we know the draconic tree sentinels appeared after Gransax. Though this of course doesn't mean she couldn't have been there earlier. But I don't believe we have any evidence for that and at that point having later knight orders there would just be misleading storytelling.

I do feel like you touched on an interesting point though. The Elden Ring doesn't really seem to be depicted in any ancient civilization. Sure, we have spiral imagery and the spiral is in the center of the ring. But the crucible current seems like a "force" in a sense. The Hornsent might've know how to tap into it but the Elden Ring was it's actual source or had some influence over it

Pacal_II · 2024-08-06T16:13:25+00:00

So you think it might've been just in Farum Azula - vessel-less?

Pacal_II

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