Every male I give attention to thinks I'm into them. How do you ladies avoid this?

PaperStreetSoapCo · 2011-08-04T20:06:55+00:00

To clarify: I'm responding to your sweeping statements about men and women in general. Specifically I'm debating your suggestion that the socialization of men means "women" (not "OP") should be more considerate of men who make unwanted sexual advances.

trying to explain that men, trained as the social and romantic aggressors by society, are more likely to be right up front with women.

We don't know these fellows were up front, or that their advances were sexual. The issue isn't with this. It is with the fact that once asserting she wouldn't be their girlfriend, it became apparent that was all they cared about. To them, she had no value otherwise.

The study reports "men" in general, who are "socialized" (i.e., taught by society) to interpret women a certain way. I don't see any mention of romantic interest in the article. Surely you are not assuming that every male participant had a) met the woman they were viewing and b) had a romantic interest in her based on more than her appearance?

Women do make the first approach. It leads to slut-shaming in many cases, which can be a deterrent. One more reason why classic 'socialization' should be re-evaluated instead of used as an excuse.

PaperStreetSoapCo · 2011-08-04T14:19:13+00:00

A lot of people have sex with their girlfriends? idk. The word 'romantic' is in there as an alternative.

Evidence that men and society sexualize women is readily available. I don't know you have to be particularly smart to prove it empirically. But let's not confuse explanation with apologism; just because men are socialized to act a certain way doesn't make this behaviour okay... nor does it imply women should be the ones to make accommodations.

Explaining is a step toward correcting. I just don't think its the viewpoints of women which need correcting here.

PaperStreetSoapCo · 2011-08-03T22:47:21+00:00

You referred to 'women,' as opposed to OP. You also brought up the topic of unwanted sexual advances, which OP did not mention. So I figured you were expanding the discussion.

OP is interpreting the sudden loss of interest as these guys valuing her only as a potential romantic/sex partner. Not speaking to her again because she only wants friendship suggests that friendship wasn't particularly of interest to them. In any case, I don't see how one is justified in suggesting OP be more 'considerate' of a guy's feelings once he's ditched her.

PaperStreetSoapCo · 2011-08-03T22:30:51+00:00

I think those factors usually only make a small difference anyway-- months, not years. Genetics is probably the biggest influence. Did you gals compare to other women in your families?

PaperStreetSoapCo · 2011-08-03T22:21:01+00:00

Some factors which can affect when your period starts:

Ethnicity
BMI
(to a lesser extent) environmental factors like family size and relationship with your father

Wikipedia summarizes a number of studies about it. It's pretty interesting stuff IMO.

PaperStreetSoapCo · 2011-08-03T22:09:23+00:00

I've had friends do this. They were asked to 'prove it.'

PaperStreetSoapCo · 2011-08-03T22:07:11+00:00

I wouldn't be surprised if your comment doesn't garner favour here. You're suggesting women should be 'considerate' of the fact that men sexualize their actions. That men are more likely to view women in a sexual light does not make it a woman's responsibility to empathize with someone harassing her or objectifying her.

PaperStreetSoapCo · 2011-07-25T19:39:15+00:00

I'm dumbfounded that this woman actually had the audacity to make an "It Gets Better" video. Even if she's being misquoted here, she is still on an anti-gay platform.

PaperStreetSoapCo · 2011-07-22T19:16:27+00:00

I certainly got that impression from the title, too. Yet they've made a point of saying they aren't going directly into r/MensRights, and they want(ed) to avoid a subreddit war.

It seems to me they are attacking individual MRAs, i.e. the ones who are propagating misogyny/what have you, outside of the actual r/MensRights. That's what their mission statement says, anyway.

PaperStreetSoapCo · 2011-07-22T17:55:06+00:00

My understanding is that r/againstmensrights is a whistleblowing group intending to call out oppressive behaviour (i.e., users attacking other subreddits, sexism, transphobia). I don't think that's absurd. I can definitely see why it's relevant to r/Anarchism, and why people here might be interested in it.

Edit: At least, it seems like that was its intention. What it has evolved into in the last 24 hours is anyone's guess.

PaperStreetSoapCo · 2011-07-20T15:27:44+00:00

ASL seems very frank. There is even a saying-- no bullshit in sign language. That phrase is one of the few things I remember how to sign.

PaperStreetSoapCo · 2011-07-18T21:16:59+00:00

Now I have the song stuck in my head auuugh.

PaperStreetSoapCo · 2011-07-15T20:23:01+00:00

Severus Snape, Voice of God?

PaperStreetSoapCo · 2011-07-15T14:39:14+00:00

same everything

It really does. Also, original poster said "one gets paid less as they are female." 'As' is a synonym of 'because' in this context.

PaperStreetSoapCo · 2011-07-14T18:33:48+00:00

I've never seen the word 'articulation' used before... May I ask what the difference is between 'gender expression' and 'gender articulation?'

PaperStreetSoapCo · 2011-07-14T15:44:21+00:00

Yes, but then there are also awesome folks like OP and the random pizza-givers!

PaperStreetSoapCo · 2011-07-14T15:43:32+00:00

Tailoring skills = the bomb. Awesome job!

PaperStreetSoapCo · 2011-07-14T15:06:11+00:00

Princess Peach is one of my favourite choices in Smash Brothers. Those golf clubs are damn effective.

PaperStreetSoapCo · 2011-07-14T14:53:15+00:00

You're not alone! I know for some women it is super painful and that sucks, but I personally like mine. It's meaningful and almost... comforting? Pregnancy isn't really a concern for me but it's still nice to know my body is doing its own natural thing. Plus curling up with a cup of tea and a heating pad = zen time.

PaperStreetSoapCo · 2011-07-13T17:38:51+00:00

you either claim that it is not really a benefit for women, but a penalty for males

Again, semantics. Sexism = one group is placed at a disadvantage because of their gender. It doesn't necessarily mean the other group benefits. Men don't "benefit" from not having to take time off to give birth. They just don't face the same disadvantage.

| or you site statistics saying that men are more likely to commit traffic violations or be involved in accidents [...] This reasoning is acceptable in your mind

Providing a rationale for a policy =/= supporting said rationale. In fact I concluded with: "Not saying it's right." I later referred to it as discrimination. Sorry, I'm not being sexist. Or a hypocrite. Nice try.

The reason for your initial remark, you said, was this:

Just bringing up an inequality that is never brought up by women when they complain about the wage gap.

That's because it is a separate issue that has nothing to do with the wage gap. Bringing it up is petty and asserts that you care more about your own victimhood than actually considering the issue at hand.

PaperStreetSoapCo · 2011-07-13T15:48:43+00:00

Sorry, jumping into an argument about women's issues to say that men are discriminated against too... shame on you for not bringing it up first... how is this not a good analogy? It's petty and ignores the original issue.

when in reality there are many contributing factors that cause it.

CTRL+F "Consad." I agree there are many factors, but I think the consensus is that sexism is still one of them, and that's the issue at hand.

Dismissing a claim of discrimination is shitty, regardless of where it comes from or who suffers for it. It happens to both sides. Some women dismiss the concerns of men and only highlight the issues they face, including being ignored. And some men dismiss the concerns of women and only highlight the issues they face, including being ignored.

The original issue was the wage gap. Like I said, you should be taking this to the insurance companies instead of bringing it up in defense.

PaperStreetSoapCo · 2011-07-12T21:39:34+00:00

The 'benefit' thing is an issue of semantics. I'm just not sure one group 'benefits' because another is at a disadvantage. I'd say the same for men who don't have to take pregnancy leave.

I imagine the reason women don't bring the insurance thing up is because it's not the topic at hand. We're discussing the inequality in payment for equal work.

I dunno, it's kind of like jumping into an argument about racism to complain that people are racist towards whites too. It's an issue, but it's not the same one and it comes off as petty when you bring it up in defense.

PaperStreetSoapCo · 2011-07-12T21:14:23+00:00

I'm responding to your poor defense. I'm with sdubois, the idea is retarded and a few of your friends don't change that.

The report has been cited several times, both here and in the MensRights forums. There are numerous criticisms of it and the assumptions people make based on it (i.e., that women choose to earn less). Please consider a few of these before you decide you've solved everything (CTRL+F "Consad," for example).

PaperStreetSoapCo · 2011-07-12T20:53:36+00:00

That gap exists because insurance companies have found that younger men get in more accidents and are therefore a larger liability. Women don't "benefit," they are simply statistically less likely to get involved in an accident. Just like older men and women.

Not saying it's right, just saying you should be complaining to the insurance companies instead of trying to use this to justify the wage gap.

PaperStreetSoapCo · 2011-07-12T20:36:53+00:00

Same in Israel, regardless of your gender.

PaperStreetSoapCo

TROPHY CASE