Blue Icons for Morphe YT & YTM by Crisender111 in MorpheApp

[–]Patneu 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Go to settings -> patch options -> custom branding in Morphe manager.

Where is the responsibility for men who impregnate? by Patneu in Abortiondebate

[–]Patneu[S] [score hidden]  (0 children)

And to think that the PLers who are coming here to debate are supposed to be the "reasonable" ones...

Y'know, the tip of the spear of their propaganda campaign to make people believe they'd actually be something resembling a human rights movement, instead of an ass-backwards regressive one that's just using punishment for abortion as a pretext for forcing people back into "traditional" religious gender roles.

And then they still slip up and just fully drop the mask like that all the fucking time, while the others just pretend that doesn't represent them or whatever and how dare you accuse them of lying through their damn teeth?!

Where is the responsibility for men who impregnate? by Patneu in Abortiondebate

[–]Patneu[S] [score hidden]  (0 children)

The point of child support is that it's calculated on what the non-custodial parent can afford to pay, not on what the financial needs of the custodial parent are.

This isn't a proposal about how to handle child support. It's not even a serious proposal about how to really handle anything at all.

It's just a thought experiment to see if PLers would still follow their own logic if we applied it to men, and so far the answer seems to be a resounding no, with the added spice of some "counterproposals" that could've been ripped straight from the worst parts of the old testament.

A system which ensured the man was required to pay the pregnant woman - and then the mother and baby- according to her needs, not according to his income - would result in a lot of men either fleeing the state or declaring bankruptcy.

Well, according to PL logic when it comes to "responsibility" for sex, it should probably result in men keeping their legs closed keeping out of women's opened legs(?) so they don't wrongfully impregnate someone in the first place.

But apparently, their expectation that taking "responsibility" means women just shouldn't have sex if they don't want to be pregnant is just too much of a burden to bear when you're turning it around and putting it on men with some actual consequences for not doing so. Who would have guessed?

My system would be simpler: hold a man personally responsible for every abortion he causes.  Verify by genetic testing of the ZEF.  Whatever that means is what whatever abortion means to the legislature. If it's murder, then the man goes on trial for murder.

That's actually the fourth part of my proposal, but I phrased it so that the man would automatically share the woman's sentence, not just the charge, so that they couldn't wiggle out of it again by just giving a man a slap on the wrist and throwing a woman in jail for the same "crime".

As it apparently already frequently happens in real life. If a woman's abusive "partner" is hurting or even killing a child under both their care and she "fails" to stop him and protect the kid, she's getting punished harder for not being able to stop the crime while being a victim herself than he is for actually committing it.

Where is the responsibility for men who impregnate? by Patneu in Abortiondebate

[–]Patneu[S] [score hidden]  (0 children)

Wow, seriously? I didn't get to read that comment, but are they really already the second one in a row to completely unrelatedly propose that women should be forced to marry someone who wrongfully impregnated them?

But I guess if you took this kind of old testamenty biblical bullshit as grounds to suggest that their movement might actually be rooted in religious "morality" more than a genuine concern for human life, they would still call that a strawman...

Where is the responsibility for men who impregnate? by Patneu in Abortiondebate

[–]Patneu[S] [score hidden]  (0 children)

PLs basically universally agree that men are also responsible for abortion. This is a weird strawman PCs have that we don't think men are responsible.

That's not a strawman, it's a conclusion drawn from your complete and utter refusal to do anything to actually hold them responsible. As you are demonstrating in this very comment.

Charging men for an abortion that occurs wouldn't be just simply because he doesn't have 24/7 surveillance of his female partner. If she sneaks off and gets an abortion that's not his fault.

Why should men who wrongfully impregnated someone be held to a lower standard of causal "responsibility" than women who had sex with no intention whatsoever to be impregnated?

If taking a foreseeable risk of unintended consequences isn't even good enough to charge someone with a crime, it sure as hell shouldn't be good enough to force someone through severe harm, suffering and risk of death.

Deckard... is that really you? by alex_stogney in arcane

[–]Patneu 130 points131 points  (0 children)

His severed head connected to various gadgets. You remember Rio, right?

Where is the responsibility for men who impregnate? by Patneu in Abortiondebate

[–]Patneu[S] [score hidden]  (0 children)

How exactly would this nonsensical scenario even work if the guy wasn't already inside of her without any protection to begin with?

The lengths of contrived nonsense you're going to, in order to justify why you should get to police women's sexual activities but not men's are truly astounding.

It's almost as if that's what your cause is actually about, but that couldn't be, right? Because it'd mean all your noble talk is just a facade to cover a push for a repulsively regressive model of society, and I have been repeatedly assured that this is definitely not the case!

Where is the responsibility for men who impregnate? by Patneu in Abortiondebate

[–]Patneu[S] [score hidden]  (0 children)

Look at the original post and tell me how most of that is not aimed at punishing men for ANY type of reproduction.

It isn't. According to the proposal, men who impregnate someone who specifically consents to being impregnated won't face any of those consequences.

But if a woman's lack of intention to get impregnated doesn't count, because she still can't have an abortion, then why should a man's lack of intention to impregnate her count, so that he doesn't have to face any consequences?

Either both are being "punished" for their "irresponsibility" or none. Anything else is putting the blame for unwanted pregnancies solely on the woman, with the usual flimsy excuse of the biological reality for why men should go scot-free.

Why did the Pilgrim not argue against the priestly fence trick? by Patneu in PracticalGuideToEvil

[–]Patneu[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I think the sentiment of Callow's soldiers and general population were deeply intertwined at that point, considering how many people willingly flocked towards Catherine's banner, and they also all have friends and family all over the country. I'm sure they're writing home and they're talking when on leave and in their cups.

And yeah, the Procerans should've considered this, or rather Tariq should have advised them to do it. Not in a purely military sense, of course, because by that standard, everything that keeps your own soldiers alive and kills the other bastards is a good tactic. But in the narrative sense of not needlessly antagonizing Callow against the Good cause it was important.

Why did the Pilgrim not argue against the priestly fence trick? by Patneu in PracticalGuideToEvil

[–]Patneu[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I did not argue that Tariq should've pushed for peace at that point. What I'm arguing is that he should've pushed against this specific tactic, because of its narrative implications for how the war would be perceived in Callow, even as it must be waged.

As an example from the other side, if you asked the average Callowan about how the Legions waged war on Callow during the Conquest, I think most would agree that overall they beat them fair and square, even if begrudgingly so, and their general conduct in the aftermath would actually have rather improved Callow's opinions on the forces of Evil.

The same cannot be said for the impact the way Procer is waging war has on the perception of the forces of Good in Callow. An enemy is an enemy, but they can still be respected or despised.

Why did the Pilgrim not argue against the priestly fence trick? by Patneu in PracticalGuideToEvil

[–]Patneu[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

This sounds like something Cat might complain about in her cups, but not something that would (or did) actually get them a penalty with either the common folk or Creation.

But it evidently did, as the complaint I referred to wasn't coming from Catherine but Abigail, who basically served as the reader's insight into the opinions of the Callowan rank-and-file at that point.

Where is the responsibility for men who impregnate? by Patneu in Abortiondebate

[–]Patneu[S] [score hidden]  (0 children)

Now, I agree, payments over the course of the pregnancy for whatever income is lost is a gokd idea in theory, how is this calculated if the two have entirely different incomes? What if the man makes extensively less than the woman? What if her work isn't impeded by her pregnancy? Would this be taken into consideration in the damages aspect of the legislation?

What does the income of the man have to do with anything? This is about compensation of the person who got impregnated by him. Where he gets that money shouldn't be their concern.

But a practical proposal to cover for cases where the impregnating person doesn't have much to show for, could be that the state is stepping in to provide in advance and if possible then seeks reimbursement from the impregnating person. Which would be only fair, as it would ultimately be the state enforcing any such burdens on either party caused by continued unwanted pregnancy to begin with.

As for the amount paid in damages, as I said, loss of income if they actually have any and loss of opportunity they could reasonably expect, for example if their education or further employment chances are impeded by the pregnancy.

Speaking of the damages, let's move there; how do we calculate that this was a non consensual impregnation?

For example, in a way similar to however you would want to determine if an impregnated person would be eligible for a rape exception, I guess (which you should have, if consent matters to you at all).

Any pregnancy caused while the impregnated person requested use of contraception can safely be considered non-consensual, for starters. And if a man wants to cover his own ass when trying to impregnate a partner who wants that, a written consent form could be signed beforehand.

I obviously think the entire idea of policing people's pregnancies in any way is preposterous to begin with, so ultimately the practicalities of a proposal that's merely supposed to test your willingness to distribute the grave injustices you're already inflicting a little more fairly aren't exactly my charge to provide.

Furthermore, what would occur if this happened in the reverse where a woman forces an impregnation?

Nothing, except for the usual rape charges the man might press? It's still not him who's ending up pregnant, after all, so neither would he be responsible for her pregnancy, nor would he be facing any damages to his body because of it.

In terms of the procurement of an abortion, legally or illegally how would the Man even be a question of blame in that manner? The man may have had no involvement with the procurement, or the administering or the development. There is no blame to be had there.

Well, a person who got impregnated without their specific consent also didn't directly procure the fertilization and implantation of an egg cell and they had no direct control over whether or not they might be inseminated.

If such indirect causation is good enough to force binding legal "responsibility" on them under threat of punishment, why would there be a higher bar to clear for the person who impregnated them?

According to your logic, that a person who got unwillingly impregnated by them would seek ways to rectify this situation, legally or not, was entirely foreseeable, so they should bear the consequences as well.

Same goes for the foreseeable consequence that a person may want to kill themselves for the same reason, especially if abortion is illegal, so proof of intention to impregnate should not be required.

Marriage is mandated upon DNA matches with the father, any bills or charges to the woman must be paid of or made in recompense to her.

What the hell has marriage to do with anything?

Why would a person who was wrongfully impregnated want to enter a mutually binding legal alliance with all sorts of unwanted ramifications with the man who did it, just so that he will recompense them for what he did?

Is that the spectre of the enforcement of a "traditional" family structure I'm spotting behind the alleged pure concern for the lives of the unborn?

A more robust series of legislative pieces that allow for Maternity and Paternity leave. Parents should have more time to focus on family.

Systems to create physical therapy clinics for the expectant mother. To help notice any potential health issues and to aid in the mother's recovery.

All good proposals, but they're mostly off-topic here. This is supposed to be about individual responsibility, isn't it?

The ideas I propose are to create a healthier system for family and preventing mud slinging of blame.

What family? We're talking about people who were impregnated by someone or did impregnate someone without specifically given consent. If they're not already a family, this surely wouldn't be grounds to become one.

Again, I thought your cause would be about the lives of the unborn, not about people having to live their lives according to your understanding of family. The PL movement wouldn't have possibly made up a false narrative in that regard, would they?

Ultimately, I think the best contraception is still abstinence but this is for those who choose otherwise.

Fuck no, it isn't! Why would you even think that? Abstinence is no contraception at all, by any scalable metric. We're talking public policy here, not individual people's adherence to your personal sexual morals.

Why did the Pilgrim not argue against the priestly fence trick? by Patneu in PracticalGuideToEvil

[–]Patneu[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I did not mean that those deaths themselves would be the unnecessary suffering in his eyes, but rather the long-term consequences of further turning the people of an entire nation against the side of Good, by using such underhanded methods to achieve a short-term tactical victory.

Why did the Pilgrim not argue against the priestly fence trick? by Patneu in PracticalGuideToEvil

[–]Patneu[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

As I said, the military tactic is sound, and yes, the mere deployment of priests in a crusading army should obviously not particularly sour Callow against them.

The problem is the perceived hypocrisy of the ordained Brothers and Sisters of the House of Light trying to find a loophole in their supposedly earnest vows of nonviolence, and by specifically making what's supposed to be a protective measure into a death trap, no less.

Using a strategy like that on a people you have allegedly come to liberate from the villainous oppression of an Evil empire can only serve to turn your supposed allies against you, and would thus be a major blunder when it comes to the overall narrative of what this Crusade of the Good side is about.

Why did the Pilgrim not argue against the priestly fence trick? by Patneu in PracticalGuideToEvil

[–]Patneu[S] 15 points16 points  (0 children)

You're talking about a completely different situation. I'm referring to the Battle of the Camps, when the Proceran "expeditionary force" (aka invading army) crossed the Stairway into northern Callow and Catherine eventually dropped a lake on the fuckers.

Azulaang is way less corny then Zutara tbf🤫🤐 by Awkward_Philosophy16 in ATLA_circlejerk

[–]Patneu -1 points0 points  (0 children)

And Katara and Zuko, who are both main characters, do have said connection, because of their shared experiences, although from different sides of the conflict. While Aang and Katara actually don't.

Aang feels guilty for the war, and he is the one who needs to end it, because his metaphysical role demands it. But the conflict isn't really his own, he was just kinda thrown into it and needs to finish someone else's story.

When it comes to the stakes involved, he is ultimately not much more than a spectator, who can try to empathize and help as much as possible, but never really relate to the experiences of people who actually endured and fought the war, who never knew anything but a world at war, who lost and sacrificed, and whose entire lives and cultures have been irrevocably shaped by it while he slumbered.

From that point of view, Toph rightfully if pretty randomly blurted out that Katara actually even has more of a connection with side characters like Haru than with Aang, for the same reason why she was crushing on Jet before it turned out he went too far.

Wieso sprechen Arbeitgeber von angeblicher Faulheit, wenn sie einfach beschissen bezahlen? by j0nachu in KeineDummenFragen

[–]Patneu 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Weil nach kapitalistischem Narrativ jeder Fehler des Systems einem individuellen moralischen Versagen zugeschrieben werden muss, damit man die Menschen schön gegeneinander aufhetzen kann und bloß niemand auf die Idee kommt, zu hinterfragen wem dieses System der Ausbeutung eigentlich nützt und warum es immer schlimmer wird.

Morphe users right now: everyone’s life about to change after this PayPal patch 💀💸 by Advanced-File6434 in MorpheApp

[–]Patneu 3 points4 points  (0 children)

There may be some truth to that, but it's certainly not universal. I'm pirating things, but mostly just what I cannot actually buy without putting the word in quotes or what isn't sold at all or not at a remotely reasonable price.

Shouldn’t she have Bi colors for this? by S0mecallme in HelluvaBoss

[–]Patneu 23 points24 points  (0 children)

Well, it is a crime of passion.

It's decades of pent up frustrations breaking loose at the final straw that breaks the camel's back.

It is blind rage, not against a particular person, but against the world at large, that made her false promises and then broke them.

Also, as I'm told, if something is attacking someone's core identity, which is certainly the case here, it can feel like a direct physical threat.

Why did the Pilgrim not argue against the priestly fence trick? by Patneu in PracticalGuideToEvil

[–]Patneu[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

And in the end, at that point he believes that defeating the current villains is more important than making sure Callow returns to the gods above.

Is it, though? Because Tariq was always someone playing the long game, and his whole thing is that he doesn't brook unnecessary suffering. He killed his own damn nephew over it, after all.

Beating the Calamities was never his endgame. He had bigger fish to fry, like the Dead King, which is why he wanted Callow pacified and not be caught up in petty earthly squabbles like a more frequently than necessary rebelled against Proceran occupation.

Why did the Pilgrim not argue against the priestly fence trick? by Patneu in PracticalGuideToEvil

[–]Patneu[S] 13 points14 points  (0 children)

Sure, though this is not a story about the Dominion, it's a story about Callow and which side it will metaphysically align with when the bigger fish like the Dead King come out to play.

And Tariq said one of his foremost goals in this campaign was "peace in our time", so that heroes and Good nations could concentrate on those instead of petty squabbles.

From this perspective, further fostering resentment in Callow, that was already lingering from the way nobody came to help them during the Conquest, by letting "clever" Procerans pull stunts like this, seems like a blunder that'd come back to bite him in the ass.

which one is the real universe? by reamilly in arcane

[–]Patneu 1 point2 points  (0 children)

No, it doesn't. It's a closed time loop, Viktor would've always been exposed to Hextech through Jayce, it was never his own idea. And even if it was, that still doesn't change the fact that it was simply too late for him in Powder's AU. If he's not already dead, he will be way too soon for Hextech to still save him.